PhantomShots wrote:
I've put up with tfp guys being hours late, surprising me with bringing their bf/gf with the shoot, sitting in my bathroom (even during paid shoots) for 10-20 minutes at a time. But I had one guy show up, talk to me for a bit and then spend about 30-45 minutes in my bathroom after rushing me to shoot with him in the evening. I cut it short and kicked him out.

I am far to lenient when I work with people. Got to learn to be a cut throat professional.

I know what you mean; while it takes a lot to get me upset, rude behavior on a shoot insures there won't be a second time.

F-1 Photo wrote:
Models, you are expecting to shoot with a photographer that usually works in a specific style, say, natural light in the golden hour. You get there and you hear "I thought we could try something different, a tattered dress in a dark basement!"

To be honest, this has happened to me on a number of occasions. Generally in trade shoots where I agreed to work together because the person's portfolio looked very nice. Upon scheduling a shoot, they change up what they want to do to something totally different than what is in their portfolio, and not really something I want/need to shoot. It's too late to cancel and I just suck it up and do the shoot.

I try to be polite and gracious, and just hope something surprisingly useful will come of it. If it doesn't, I write it off as a loss and am unlikely to shoot with that person again unless they offer pay.

Regardless, I'm in someone else's space and dissent typically doesn't make for a pleasant three hours. I'm an exceptionally polite, reserved person in real life, though it probably does not always seem that way on the forums. I do not like disagreement and I won't argue with people. I do whatever I need to do in that moment, to keep things on track (and therefore preserve my own reputation as a professional) even if that's not necessarily what I'd like or what I'd planned.

Even if the shoot turns out a wash and you can't use anything from it, no one can go say you were a diva for not shooting their ideas, or that you were hard to work with. Getting that stigma attached to your name is the death knell to a freelance model, and it only takes ones time of getting on some well-connected photographer's bad side for it to happen.

Koryn wrote:
Regardless, I'm in someone else's space and dissent typically doesn't make for a pleasant three hours. I'm an exceptionally polite, reserved person in real life, though it probably does not always seem that way on the forums. I do not like disagreement and I won't argue with people. I do whatever I need to do in that moment, to keep things on track (and therefore preserve my own reputation as a professional) even if that's not necessarily what I'd like or what I'd planned.

Even if the shoot turns out a wash and you can't use anything from it, no one can go say you were a diva for not shooting their ideas, or that you were hard to work with. Getting that stigma attached to your name is the death knell to a freelance model, and it only takes ones time of getting on some well-connected photographer's bad side for it to happen.

That's pretty much what I've done in the past too. I hate drama on a shoot; nothing good ever comes of it and it is generally a waste of everyone's time and effort. And like you point out, you never know what might come out of it!

martin b wrote:
two days ago I cut a shoot short.  It was a 5 hour ride to shoot at a waterfall.  I brought along a new photographer who was suppose to assist and learn.  I knew him slightly and the model was a girl i had known for about a year.  He ended up hijacking my shoot with her and I cut the shoot short.  It was a really shitty day for me.  I really just felt stupid.  It was my favorite model who I rarely shot.  I also have a little crush on her and watching him hijack the shoot and she went along with it.  That was too much.

I will not comment on "crushes" on models.

Other than that, it's a lesson I learned years ago.

If someone else brings out a camera on one of my shoots, I call the shoot.

Adios.

RBD

R Bruce Duncan wrote:
Other than that, it's a lesson I learned years ago.

If someone else brings out a camera on one of my shoots, I call the shoot.

Adios.

RBD

I hate shooting with another photographer.  I shoot really slow and deliberate.  I know most people shoot much faster than me.  When I see that cover shots of magazines are a full day for one shot I decided to slow down and shoot fewer shots and make sure they count.  Plus I really like to shoot my style and am not interested in everyone elses opinion at my shoot.

R Bruce Duncan wrote:
If someone else brings out a camera on one of my shoots, I call the shoot.



RBD

It was he, the photographer that set up the shoot, who brought the second, younger photographer along.  The younger photographer was supposed to assist and learn.  I assume that him doing some shooting was expected, but he ended up taking over the shoot.

The only time that I have called a shoot was when we had set up a lingerie shoot and the model showed up with not one, but two previously unmentioned escorts and 3 suitcases of wardrobe including no lingerie.

Natural Light on Location wrote:
Hmm,

There's a list for this.

1. Drugs, don't come out of the bathroom after changing, sniffing. Don't show up drunk either, or high, with those sleepy eyes.

2. Turn off the cellphone, if you jump up in the middle of a pose to answer it, your gone. I also dislike, "I have to return this call," and I won't stand around waiting while you text, between every outfit change.

3. Changing. If it takes you ten minutes to change, I don't care if you're doing drugs in there, on the cellphone, texting, or whatever. If you're being paid by the hour, then work.

Note: not to make this an escort thread, but if you brought along your girlfriend, and every time you change turns into 15 minutes of girls giggling in the bathroom, that won't cut it either.

4. In a Hurry. "I have to be somewhere, " look at watch, ruin shot looking at wall clock, constantly ask, "what time is it, or can we hurry this up?"

5. Confuse modeling, with shopping for yourself. You're being paid to model the outfit, you're not spending your money on it, and taking the dress home to wear tomorrow.

6. Sulking, You don't want to wear the green dress, you want to wear the purple one again, or my husband would like to be in here watching this, or whatever nonsense. You are being paid to Model, and smile, not pout.

7. Showing up way late, then expecting everybody to double time to cover your antics. Nope, not gonna happen.

8. Extortion, "oh I'll wear that, but only if you pay me more money."

9. Inappropriate escorts. Again, not to turn this into an escort thread, but honestly. Bringing along your Mom, and your five year old daughter? Bringing along your Uncle to a Nude Shoot, or your Brother?

Or for really bizarre, talking to the Model the day before the shoot, and she asks me to talk to her Step Father, who informs me that he will be coming along, and he has to be in the room, when I shoot nudes.

10. Showing up all red eyed about some event in your life, boyfriend broke up with you, whatever. Then breaking into tears, and being unable to smile during an attempt to shoot.

All those things are true stories that have happened, and yes, the model got sent home.

Note, this will be followed by: "Am I still getting Paid?"

looks like you came to some of my group shoots.  Don't forget the model that shows up and then wants to negotiate a higher pay.

martin b wrote:

looks like you came to some of my group shoots.  Don't forget the model that shows up and then wants to negotiate a higher pay.

Read Again, number 8, extortion

Natural Light on Location wrote:

Read Again, number 8, extortion

you really had been on my group shoots before. lol

Natural Light on Location wrote:
5. Confuse modeling, with shopping for yourself. You're being paid to model the outfit, you're not spending your money on it, and taking the dress home to wear tomorrow.

If you have a specific idea for wardrobe maybe you should purchase what you want the model to wear.It shouldn't be the model's responsibility to purchase clothes for the shoot and then get sent home because she didn't pick out something that matched your concept.

Alannah The Stylist wrote:
If you have a specific idea for wardrobe maybe you should purchase what you want the model to wear.It shouldn't be the model's responsibility to purchase clothes for the shoot and then get sent home because she didn't pick out something that matched your concept.

No, it's not like that, nice Troll though. Did you miss the part where it said "Your Not Spending Your Money?"  The Model was not asked to buy anything for the shoot.

We are talking about shoots where the Client picked the clothes, and the model. I never saw either the clothes or the Model before I showed up at the Studio they rented. Boring work actually, the same dress in four different colors sort of thing. The Model did not want to wear the green one, only the other three identical ones. Said Green did not go with her eyes, or something like that.

Catalog work, is like that. Things like shooting ten different Tshirt designs, in four different colors, and for every shirt, one is on top, and the others layered under them. So you spend hours, arranging them so the best color for that design is on top, then decide what order the other three colors should be arranged in.

When it's stuff like my current Casting, I send the Model pics of all the outfits, or at least the styles, if not all the colors, before the actual shoot. Again, the model is asked to bring nothing but make up, and shoes.

But lets stay on topic here, this thread is about reasons to end the shoot and send the Model Home.

martin b wrote:

you really had been on my group shoots before. lol

No, I've been to Manilla, but I don't recall any photo shoots.

Care to share any stories about Group Shoots, where two Models got into it, and the whole shoot ended early?

Bet you have a few of those.

Natural Light on Location wrote:
1. Drugs, don't come out of the bathroom after changing, sniffing.

I'll remember to call the Allergy God and have him hold all my boogers until after the shoot.

Or the Lord of Random Colds and Persistent Sinus Infections.

Either of those two.

Koryn wrote:

I'll remember to call the Allergy God and have him hold all my boogers until after the shoot.

Or the Lord of Random Colds and Persistent Sinus Infections.

Either of those two.

As long as your Sinus medicine, does not leave a white powdery residue under your nose, and make you talk 90 miles an hour, I think were all good.

I really did not think I needed to give detailed explanations.

Also people with Sinus Infections, or Allergy attacks usually mention something about it.

Now the ones with a pint of Vodka in the purse, those are the hard ones to figure out until they start stumbling, slurring, and talking loud.

F-1 Photo wrote:
What would you do? Would you continue the shoot? Alter your plans to best accomodate the changed circumstances?  Go with it as if nothing was different? Politely try and cut the shoot short? Try and convince the other party to stay with the original program? (Not easy if hair was drastically altered!)

I usually cut it short &/or cal it a wash if I get the remote feeling its all about the other person. I'm willing to go 90% (for Tf* shoots) to meet their needs but you gotta at least come the remaining 10%. I'm usually able to sniff that end out in preshoot communications & put a clamp on it before we even start shooting, though not always.

Another is where I'm being reasked or are still ironing out important details when its getting towards crunch time. Not being on the same page (or having doubt) is a recipe for disaster.

I'm rapport dependent so if its not really happening, I make an excuse to cut it short.

I also cut it short if I'm not getting the sense that they're willing trust me with my ideas that are within the confines of their previously stated work limits.

All Yours Photography wrote:

It was he, the photographer that set up the shoot, who brought the second, younger photographer along.  The younger photographer was supposed to assist and learn.  I assume that him doing some shooting was expected, but he ended up taking over the shoot.

The only time that I have called a shoot was when we had set up a lingerie shoot and the model showed up with not one, but two previously unmentioned escorts and 3 suitcases of wardrobe including no lingerie.

I have tried to do this also but it has never worked out.  Shoot with my assistant and another model in the Santa Barbara mountains.  This could have been a mutually wonderful shoot for the both of us.  I was submitting work to Volo magazine at their request.  However the photographer started to have back and forth messages  with the model on Facebook. by the time we got to the Santa Barbara mountains the other photographer came up to me and said he just want to shoot this model and not the other model/ assistant that was with us.  Needless to say I did not get any content for the magazine, loss the  friendship of a photographer I respected, and was pissed off by the model.

I WILL NEVER WORK WITH ANOTHER PHOTOGRAPHER LIKE THAT AGAIN

Natural Light on Location wrote:

No, it's not like that, nice Troll though. Did you miss the part where it said "Your Not Spending Your Money?"  The Model was not asked to buy anything for the shoot.

Trolling?
You said that one of your problems was when a model "treats modeling like shopping for herself", you could see how one might think you were talking about the model buying clothes for the shoot.You never mentioned the scenario.

Natural Light on Location wrote:
Hmm,

There's a list for this.

1. Drugs, don't come out of the bathroom after changing, sniffing. Don't show up drunk either, or high, with those sleepy eyes.

2. Turn off the cellphone, if you jump up in the middle of a pose to answer it, your gone. I also dislike, "I have to return this call," and I won't stand around waiting while you text, between every outfit change.

3. Changing. If it takes you ten minutes to change, I don't care if you're doing drugs in there, on the cellphone, texting, or whatever. If you're being paid by the hour, then work.

Note: not to make this an escort thread, but if you brought along your girlfriend, and every time you change turns into 15 minutes of girls giggling in the bathroom, that won't cut it either.

4. In a Hurry. "I have to be somewhere, " look at watch, ruin shot looking at wall clock, constantly ask, "what time is it, or can we hurry this up?"

5. Confuse modeling, with shopping for yourself. You're being paid to model the outfit, you're not spending your money on it, and taking the dress home to wear tomorrow.

6. Sulking, You don't want to wear the green dress, you want to wear the purple one again, or my husband would like to be in here watching this, or whatever nonsense. You are being paid to Model, and smile, not pout.

7. Showing up way late, then expecting everybody to double time to cover your antics. Nope, not gonna happen.

8. Extortion, "oh I'll wear that, but only if you pay me more money."

9. Inappropriate escorts. Again, not to turn this into an escort thread, but honestly. Bringing along your Mom, and your five year old daughter? Bringing along your Uncle to a Nude Shoot, or your Brother?

Or for really bizarre, talking to the Model the day before the shoot, and she asks me to talk to her Step Father, who informs me that he will be coming along, and he has to be in the room, when I shoot nudes.

10. Showing up all red eyed about some event in your life, boyfriend broke up with you, whatever. Then breaking into tears, and being unable to smile during an attempt to shoot.

All those things are true stories that have happened, and yes, the model got sent home.

Note, this will be followed by: "Am I still getting Paid?"

I've been shooting models for about 12 years.

In that time, I'd say the number is somewhere around 700 individuals and close to 1000 shoots.  I've encountered drugs on set less than 5 times.  Inappropriate escorts maybe 5 times.  And maybe one or two other things about the cell phone and changing maybe once or twice.

If you're really experiencing this ridiculous list of annoyances and sending models home because of it, maybe you need to take a look at your selection process and figure out why these things are happening to you.

In those 12 years, I've only cut one shoot short because she couldn't function on her medications.  But even that was after 9 hours of trying.

Maybe it's you.

Good Egg Productions wrote:

I've been shooting models for about 12 years.

In that time, I'd say the number is somewhere around 700 individuals and close to 1000 shoots.  I've encountered drugs on set less than 5 times.  Inappropriate escorts maybe 5 times.  And maybe one or two other things about the cell phone and changing maybe once or twice.

If you're really experiencing this ridiculous list of annoyances and sending models home because of it, maybe you need to take a look at your selection process and figure out why these things are happening to you.

In those 12 years, I've only cut one shoot short because she couldn't function on her medications.  But even that was after 9 hours of trying.

Maybe it's you.

No, most of that was when I was shooting for small agencies, or wanna be agencies who would send me models that they discovered. Discovered as in found in bars, or malls, or from weekly paper ads. When you have a Studio, with Studio bills you take regular work when you can get it.

Or the Dancers, that the Owner wanted in the ad for his club. That's where the drugs, and booze problems happened mostly. Which is why I almost never shoot Dancers anymore.

I also "Assisted," other photographers with their "discoveries" when they rented the studio.

In short, most of the discoveries and Dancers, had never done a shoot before, and half the time, the person from the Agency, was unable to be there at the last minute.

I suspect you were drawing from a much better Talent pool than I was back then. These days, no studio, no problems.

But hey, this threads not about me... Jeez, I post one little list, on topic.

Good Egg Productions wrote:
I've been shooting models for about 12 years.

In that time, I'd say the number is somewhere around 700 individuals and close to 1000 shoots.  I've encountered drugs on set less than 5 times.  Inappropriate escorts maybe 5 times.  And maybe one or two other things about the cell phone and changing maybe once or twice.

If you're really experiencing this ridiculous list of annoyances and sending models home because of it, maybe you need to take a look at your selection process and figure out why these things are happening to you.

In those 12 years, I've only cut one shoot short because she couldn't function on her medications.  But even that was after 9 hours of trying.

Maybe it's you.

This.
Even when, years ago, I was shooting adult interest material with non-mainstream models, I was dealing with people who were always trying their best to get the job done to the best of their abilities.

Sometimes I think that some people on MM have drifted over from an alternative universe where their apparent experiences may be common, but do not match those of people who live in this world.

Natural Light on Location wrote:

No, I've been to Manilla, but I don't recall any photo shoots.

Care to share any stories about Group Shoots, where two Models got into it, and the whole shoot ended early?

Bet you have a few of those.

Been a long time since I've been to Dallas.  Even though we shoot some professional models, we also have photographers who bring "friends" to shoots.  Usually it works out fine but sometimes peoples feelings get hurt when other photographers try to get extra from a model.   I don't usually hear about models in the USA doing sexual favors but many models here in the Philippines will for a little extra money.   

If you come to manila you can always join in.  It's about $50 to join a nude shoot with FHM style models.  Maybe $10-25 for local girls still new.  Extra services not part of the shoot but do at your own risk. 

You can also go to resorts and shoot in off season for about $5-$10 to shoot waterfalls for a day.  Model not included.

Natural Light on Location wrote:
... I almost never shoot Dancers anymore. ...

This surprises me.

Given the choice, I will always shoot a dancer in preference to a non-dancer, or perhaps you mean "exotic dancer" who  has big boobs but no dance training?

Jpod_model wrote:
I haven't surprised any photographers with my appearance as a model, but I was sure surprised once when I was painting a model.
We agreed I'd offer her a choice of some small original paintings of mine in exchange for her posing for a life size canvas, as well as a quality digital print from the painting. What was unique about her look was a cascade of thick wavy hair that fell below her butt. It was an important and a main element of the painting.  She shows up after two long sessions (about 3 hours) for the third with her hair cut in a pixie. She had not cut her hair in over a decade and of all times she does that? That was the most passive aggressive way to say she didn't want to finish the job that she had committed to starting. I cobbled a solution between some photographic records (but I really hate painting from photos, it flattens out and does not compare to the on site viewing) and getting a friend who had long (but not as long) hair to stand in her place in a similar outfit.

If someone cuts their hair it's not about you or the job, it's about them.