"Hello, I am coming to San Francisco and would like to work with you.
I am a professional nude model and only available for paid work and my rate is an industry standard eleventy billion dollars per hour."

Theres plenty of Photographers in this market and I cant imagine that the Model spammed all of us, even if she had unlimited messages.
So my question is why would a traveling nude model bother with sending me a message?

I don't have any nude images in my portfolio, or any lingerie images typical of the kind of content most traveling Models shoot, so why would they think I'd start shooting that content with them and pay them for it?

Hopefully my work shows that I am experienced, and my profile should convey that I've had plenty of experience and no shortage of collaborations with other members.

If I was a traveling nude model, I'd probably market myself to harmless GWCs.

Paolo Diavolo wrote:
Why me?
Every so often I get a spam message from a traveling model that goes something like:

[i]
Theres plenty of Photographers in this market and I cant imagine that the Model spammed all of us, even if she had unlimited messages.
So my question is why would a traveling nude model bother with sending me a message?

I don't have any nude images in my portfolio, or any lingerie images typical of the kind of content most traveling Models shoot, so why would they think I'd start shooting that content with them and pay them for it?

Hopefully my work shows that I am experienced, and my profile should convey that I've had plenty of experience and no shortage of collaborations with other members.

If I was a traveling nude model, I'd probably market myself to harmless GWCs.

Though I understand you don't want to be bothered but.....
So are you saying everyone who shoots nudes are GWCs ?  That sonds kind of ignorant coming from a pro or kind of pro shooter.

Oh I guess, Newton, Man Ray, Sreiglitz, Cunningham , Weston were all GWCs too.

Geesh, try to see beyond your brand of fashion.

BTW  if they send you this message and you don't want them just BLOCK them.

Paolo Diavolo wrote:
Why me?
Every so often I get a spam message from a traveling model that goes something like:

[i]
Theres plenty of Photographers in this market and I cant imagine that the Model spammed all of us, even if she had unlimited messages.
So my question is why would a traveling nude model bother with sending me a message?

I don't have any nude images in my portfolio, or any lingerie images typical of the kind of content most traveling Models shoot, so why would they think I'd start shooting that content with them and pay them for it?

Hopefully my work shows that I am experienced, and my profile should convey that I've had plenty of experience and no shortage of collaborations with other members.

If I was a traveling nude model, I'd probably market myself to harmless GWCs.

At the risk of getting yelled at for this not being in Critique (because we know each other and I think you're a big boy who can handle this)...no, your current portfolio doesnt convey that you've been doing this for 7 years and shot hundreds of people and are super experienced and have a set theme/style/etc. You DO look like the type of person who would likely hire a professional nude model (for nudes or anything else). But also yeah we spam everyone, we don't have time to sit back and cherry pick people to contact and wait for them to respond.

Risen Phoenix Photo wrote:

Though I understand you don't want to be bothered but.....
So are you saying everyone who shoots nudes are GWCs ?  That sonds kind of ignorant coming from a pro or kind of pro shooter.

Oh I guess, Newton, Man Ray, Sreiglitz, Cunningham , Weston were all GWCs too.

Geesh, try to see beyond your brand of fashion.

BTW  if they send you this message and you don't want them just BLOCK them.

It's not that I'm bothered by their messages, so no need to block someone, especially when I can't anticipate who in the world will be naked in my area next. Just curious why they would attempt to solicit from me.

I am definitely not saying 'everyone who shoots nudes is a GWC'.
Please don't put words in my mouth.
I simply said that if i was a nude model, I would market to GWCs.
My definition of a GWC is a typically hetero male amateur photographer who's primary motivation for taking pictures is to see nude females, and the quality of the pictures is secondary. Resulting in a lack of available trade work, so they usually pay models.
In my opinion for nude models looking to take on clients, marketing to GWCs makes good business sense.

Laura UnBound wrote:
At the risk of getting yelled at for this not being in Critique (because we know each other and I think you're a big boy who can handle this)...no, your current portfolio doesnt convey that you've been doing this for 7 years and shot hundreds of people and are super experienced and have a set theme/style/etc. You DO look like the type of person who would likely hire a professional nude model (for nudes or anything else). But also yeah we spam everyone, we don't have time to sit back and cherry pick people to contact and wait for them to respond.

I'm a big boy today!
Thank you for your honesty. It means all kinda extra special things coming from you, and of course I don't mind you saying what kind of vibe my port puts out.
My guess for getting spamz was that my account probably pops up as 'recently active' since I live inside this website.

Paolo Diavolo wrote:
My definition of a GWC is a typically hetero male amateur photographer who's primary motivation for taking pictures is to see nude females, and the quality of the pictures is secondary.

I have a question for you.  How do you know that the "GWC is a typically hetero male amateur photographer who's primary motivation for taking pictures is to see nude females, and the quality of the pictures is secondary" 

Have you asked a bunch of "typically hetero male amateur photographer" and had this confirmed or are you just projecting your views of why someone would pay a model to pose nude for them upon others with no basis of fact?

Risen Phoenix Photo wrote:
Oh I guess, Newton, Man Ray, Sreiglitz, Cunningham , Weston were all GWCs too.

Geesh, try to see beyond your brand of fashion.

Well put!

J-PhotoArt wrote:
I have a question for you.  How do you know that the "GWC is a typically hetero male amateur photographer who's primary motivation for taking pictures is to see nude females, and the quality of the pictures is secondary" 

Have you asked a bunch of "typically hetero male amateur photographer" and had this confirmed or are you just projecting your views of why someone would pay a model to pose nude for them upon others with no basis of fact?

"GWC" (Guy with Camera) has been defined on this website multiple times over the last decade, and i think most here would agree my description is accurate with the commonly accepted one that floats around here.
I didn't make it up.

Regardless of photography skill, quality camera gear, or modeling skills or cash exchanging hands;
Theres nothing wrong with nude modeling, or nude photography, or even guys wanting to see hot naked ladies!

Paolo Diavolo wrote:
BTW back to topic:
After I made this thread I asked the traveling model who messaged me earlier if she had any particular reason for messaging me and she replied with:

"I noticed you had worked with other full-time traveling models"

fair enough.

I wonder if she drilled it down to Verified Credits.

Paolo Diavolo wrote:
Every so often I get a spam message from a traveling model that goes something like:

"Hello, I am coming to San Francisco and would like to work with you.
I am a professional nude model and only available for paid work and my rate is an industry standard eleventy billion dollars per hour."

Paolo Diavolo wrote:
So my question is why would a traveling nude model bother with sending me a message?

If I was a traveling nude model, I'd probably market myself to harmless GWCs.

1)  Many nude models also pose clothed. 

2)  Sometimes, when I watch TV, I see beer commercials.  I don't drink beer.  Why me?

3)  Instead of ranting on a forum thread, wouldn't it be easier to ignore the message and find something constructive to do with your time?

4)  Why does this upset you so?  Why do this inspire such a snippy response (e.g. "my rate is an industry standard eleventy billion dollars per hour.")?

5)  What does this snippy response say about your attitude towards models, photographers of the nude, and your expectations of how MM is "supposed to" work?

Paolo Diavolo wrote:
BTW back to topic:
After I made this thread I asked the traveling model who messaged me earlier if she had any particular reason for messaging me and she replied with:

"I noticed you had worked with other full-time traveling models"

fair enough.

Prior to a trip, I would spend HOURS every day, combing profiles of people in each area I planned to visit.

I sent messages to those who either said they worked with paid/traveling models OR if they had known traveling models in their portfolios.

Looknsee Photography wrote:
...snip...

2)  Sometimes, when I watch TV, I see beer commercials.  I don't drink beer.  Why me?

If your TV is sending emails to you specifically, you might want to pay more attention to that, whether you drink beer or not... although, I suspect if you believe it is emailing you, you've advanced well past beer already!

Looknsee Photography wrote:
3)  Instead of ranting on a forum thread, wouldn't it be easier to ignore the message and find something constructive to do with your time?

Welcome to the internet, this does not qualify as a rant, you'll see one some day.

Looknsee Photography wrote:
4)  Why does this upset you so?  Why do this inspire such a snippy response (e.g. "my rate is an industry standard eleventy billion dollars per hour.")?

He doesn't seem all that upset to me, and he was only paraphrasing the travelling model's email, not responding.

Looknsee Photography wrote:
5)  What does this snippy response say about your attitude towards models, photographers of the nude, and your expectations of how MM is "supposed to" work?

It wasn't a response, it was a paraphrase of what he received. I don't see any problem with him asking the question, Maybe he's never encountered this before. I'm sure, as he's seen from the responses, he's discovered that it's pretty much par for the course for travelling models to blast emails out to all photographers in the areas they are going to be in, to drum up business, especially if they've shot travelling models before. No need to create any conflict here, no one is getting excited, it was just a question.

Looknsee Photography wrote:
3)  Instead of ranting on a forum thread, wouldn't it be easier to ignore the message and find something constructive to do with your time?

DespayreFX wrote:
Welcome to the internet, this does not qualify as a rant, you'll see one some day.

DespayreFX wrote:
No need to create any conflict here, no one is getting excited, it was just a question.

The OP has, per his profile, been on MM for 7 years, and has had interactions with hundreds of individuals here, and has almost 10000 forum posts. If you, DespayreFX, (or he) is suggesting that his post is not a rant or an alternate agenda and that he actually doesn't understand how traveling models hustle, well, sorry, but I'm not buying it. I have a difficult time believing that someone with said experience is truly that out of step.

AgX wrote:
...*snip*... If you, DespayreFX, (or he) is suggesting that his post is not a rant or an alternate agenda and that he actually doesn't understand how traveling models hustle, well, sorry, but I'm not buying it. I have a difficult time believing that someone with said experience is truly that out of step.

I'm not suggesting any of that, I'm saying that his well-spoken question, without a single hint at profanity, coupled with its brevity doesn't even come close to qualifying as a rant.  If you think it does, well, then I have to assume you haven't been on the internet long, cuz there *are* some good rants out there... this just isn't one.

And I have no idea what he knows, or doesn't know, but, like you, I suspect he's aware of how travelling models hustle.

Paolo Diavolo wrote:
If I was a traveling nude model, I'd probably market myself to harmless GWCs.

I'm sure that the models would find it helpful if the GWCs were to identify themselves.

Tony Lawrence wrote:
Its a sad day when this kind of benign post is seen as a rant.   A member has suggested it has NO place on MM.   Okay, then do posts about how to convert DVD to a format playable on a computer belong on MM.   This is a modeling photography website after all.   We all could be doing other things but the OP has chosen to pose a simple harmless question.   Not a rant.   Not insult.   No name calling.   So lets attack him....

I bet no one has ever accused you of being the voice of reason before now, have they? And no kidding, right?

Tony Lawrence wrote:
Its a sad day when this kind of benign post is seen as a rant.   A member has suggested it has NO place on MM.   Okay, then do posts about how to convert DVD to a format playable on a computer belong on MM.   This is a modeling photography website after all.   We all could be doing other things but the OP has chosen to pose a simple harmless question.   Not a rant.   Not insult.   No name calling.   So lets attack him....

+10

OP was just curious why traveling nude models were marketing themselves to a photographer who doesn’t shoot nudes.

He wasn’t attacking nudes, he wasn’t attacking models, he wasn't angry, he wasn’t bragging, he wasn't using the term GWC outside it’s common usage (nor was he attacking them), he wasn’t ranting, and he certainly wasn’t criticizing Helmut Newton, Stieglitz, etc.

This is why most people don’t participate in these forums. No one in their right mind wants to subject themselves to this gauntlet of nonsense.

American Glamour wrote:
I get them all the time.  I don't mind them and I appreciate them.  Now that I am moving around, they are a little less relevant.  I keep changing my location based on where I am going to be heading in the next couple of months.  The traveling models tend to get to where I am going at a different time.

When I was back home, I found the messages useful.  I understand how one might consider them spam.  On the other hand, how would you expect them to get work if they didn't ask?

I get them too.  I don't mind.  I've worked with some of them.
I just received a message from a model that I've turned down a couple of times.  I might work with her this time.   

Paolo Diavolo wrote:

I'm a big boy today!
Thank you for your honesty. It means all kinda extra special things coming from you, and of course I don't mind you saying what kind of vibe my port puts out.
My guess for getting spamz was that my account probably pops up as 'recently active' since I live inside this website.

To expand even further, as was pointed out by another poster, some of your verified credits are other traveling nude models, we basically mine each others contact lists. Your credited images also show a couple nudes. Your profile says youve shot "a little bit of everything", you're not exactly screaming "I WONT SHOOT YOU NAKED GO AWAY!" here.

But its mostly just that we spam everybody. And its not a total waste of time to contact those who don't show nudes, half of them WANT to get into nudes but the local models they've been able to work with thus far don't do them or they didn't know how to ask/have a fear of being seen as creepy, so we offer and thats their "big break" into shooting nudes, its not dangerous to their reputation to ask a nude model offering nudes to shoot nudes.

Laura UnBound wrote:

To expand even further, as was pointed out by another poster, some of your verified credits are other traveling nude models, we basically mine each others contact lists. Your credited images also show a couple nudes. Your profile says youve shot "a little bit of everything", you're not exactly screaming "I WONT SHOOT YOU NAKED GO AWAY!" here.

But its mostly just that we spam everybody. And its not a total waste of time to contact those who don't show nudes, half of them WANT to get into nudes but the local models they've been able to work with thus far don't do them or they didn't know how to ask/have a fear of being seen as creepy, so we offer and thats their "big break" into shooting nudes, its not dangerous to their reputation to ask a nude model offering nudes to shoot nudes.

I prefer to shoot models nude who have experience posing nude.

crx studios wrote:
+10

OP was just curious why traveling nude models were marketing themselves to a photographer who doesn’t shoot nudes.

He wasn’t attacking nudes, he wasn’t attacking models, he wasn't angry, he wasn’t bragging, he wasn't using the term GWC outside it’s common usage (nor was he attacking them), he wasn’t ranting, and he certainly wasn’t criticizing Helmut Newton, Stieglitz, etc.

This is why most people don’t participate in these forums. No one in their right mind wants to subject themselves to this gauntlet of nonsense.

Thank you!
and a huge thank you to DespayreFX too for fielding all those ridiculous questions.

Paolo Diavolo wrote:
Why me?
Every so often I get a spam message from a traveling model that goes something like:

[i]
If I was a traveling nude model, I'd probably market myself to harmless GWCs.

If it wasn't for messages like these, I wouldn't have met so many wonderful models on MM. I rarely shoot nudes and my portfolio has a few topless shots, but most of the successful traveling models shoot nudes in addition to glamour, lingerie, swimsuit, fashion ect.

I have no problem declining to shoot with someone who doesn't fit what I'm looking for, and most have been gracious in thanking me for replying. I suppose I could ignore them, but I might change my mind in the future.

I have yet to see anyone ask for eleventy billion for a shoot, but if a model's rate is too high for me, I just explain that. Some will negotiate, some won't.

Red Sky Photography wrote:
I have yet to see anyone ask for eleventy billion for a shoot, but if a model's rate is too high for me, I just explain that. Some will negotiate, some won't.

If eleventy billion isn't too high for you, I'll pose, you don't even have to cover my travel costs!

Laura UnBound wrote:
so we offer and thats their "big break" into shooting nudes, its not dangerous to their reputation to ask a nude model offering nudes to shoot nudes.

True fact:
You were my "big break" into my not so secret life of photographing nekkid people and not posting it on MM.
All the coolest Members back in the days of kick ass forum shenanigans were naked models, and it was awesome to get to meet forum friends in person.
My list of credits rats me out on all the legendary traveling models I hired just to meet and laugh in person with.

Koryn wrote:

Prior to a trip, I would spend HOURS every day, combing profiles of people in each area I planned to visit.

you're the one that got away *crai*