Sita Mae wrote:
I wonder sometimes, amidst the plethora of accusatory threads that go back and forth between models and photographers, if it ever occurs to people to consider whether they are the source of their own problem.

Here's a little trick I use in my own life that may be of use to some of you:

If you find yourself running into the same problem over and over and over again in different situations with different people...you're the common denominator.  The problem might not be with them, but with you.

Example:

All the threads bitching about unreliable models.  If you run into that on a weekly basis, maybe there are other steps you can take to vet the models before you shoot them.  Have you talked with photographers they've shot with?  Do you have a good idea of what their reputation is like?  Do some homework.  It can save you all manner of grief.

Maybe consider getting inventive about ways to create solid, dependable working relationships.  Isn't that a better way to spend your time than in constant frustration, venting on MM? 

Anyway.  Just a thought.

How does that theory change the FACT that the models that particular photographer booked flaked ? You're saying that each and every time a model flaked it was the photogs fault due to his own shortcomings ? The fact is still that the model flaked, not the photographer, regardless of anything else.

Sita Mae wrote:
I wonder sometimes, amidst the plethora of accusatory threads that go back and forth between models and photographers, if it ever occurs to people to consider whether they are the source of their own problem.

Here's a little trick I use in my own life that may be of use to some of you:

If you find yourself running into the same problem over and over and over again in different situations with different people...you're the common denominator.  The problem might not be with them, but with you.

Example:

All the threads bitching about unreliable models.  If you run into that on a weekly basis, maybe there are other steps you can take to vet the models before you shoot them.  Have you talked with photographers they've shot with?  Do you have a good idea of what their reputation is like?  Do some homework.  It can save you all manner of grief.

Maybe consider getting inventive about ways to create solid, dependable working relationships.  Isn't that a better way to spend your time than in constant frustration, venting on MM? 

Anyway.  Just a thought.

Sita Mae

I read the initial topic and even some reply where Sita Mae explain that the first topic was only an example.
   
I'm partially in agreement with your thoughts.

In summary what you want said i think is simply that seek alternative to do what you want.
I think this is right and i'm agree.

But i think also that similar topic could never end because it is a way to vent frustrations and disappointments for the many expectations that are present every time there are new experiences that don't go in the direction expected.

Good or bad (and i think often is bad) humans thought has often don't based on logical.

I believe that to accept things like that  (metaphorically speaking) before you need to drink some bitter cup, and perhaps after that you learn ...

Ed Burns Photography wrote:
I think part of the problem (now that I look at it again) is that I constantly look to see who's new in my area.  I guess I'm looking for that "diamond in the rough", so I can shoot with her before she gets jaded by the bombardment of TFP (Time For Porn) requests.  Either that, or she actually turns out to be so good that she will only accept paid shoots (which right now my budget doesn't allow for...hell, I'M trying to make a buck at this ). 

It's great when they're as passionate about creating art, but it sucks when you make plans with someone who doesn't care.

Feel EXACTLY the same way. I LOVE discovering , developing new talent, It's really all I'm specially good at, as a photog.  Bringing out a models potential.    So I-we take chances on inexperienced talent, gals who aren't sure why they're doing this, but possess genuine potential. 
   Unfortunately our experience, expectations and goals are quite different..... and most newbies don't at all comprehend all the preparation that can go into a shoot-image.
   I treat them like a professional in training but to them it's sometimes regarded as an entertaining way to spend their afternoon, like going to a spa or a concert or a party. No tragic loss if something comes up. As they're still having fun.   But I lose that entire weekend when I could be shooting any number of models who ARE motivated.
   That's the risk we take, willingly, in the pursuit of our "art" with new talent.

    Meeting with a model can bridge that information gap and usually does, so we're more or less on the same page and understand each others needs & goals better.  For me this is well worth the time.......to initiate a collaboration and engage a models enthusiasm.

    Long a we can find a common ground, something that excites, inspires us both, the chances for success are promising, but never guaranteed. Women are far more complex than most us males can comprehend.

Robert Randall wrote:
Hey, someone tell Hassy501 to turn on the lights, he's arguing with someone that doesn't post any longer, in a thread that is over a year old. Damn what that fixer does to the mind!

It's close to Halloween...
I see zombie threads!

Robert Randall wrote:
Hey, someone tell Hassy501 to turn on the lights, he's arguing with someone that doesn't post any longer, in a thread that is over a year old. Damn what that fixer does to the mind!

That's probably why he bumped it - so no one would argue back.

Robert Randall wrote:
Hey, someone tell Hassy501 to turn on the lights, he's arguing with someone that doesn't post any longer, in a thread that is over a year old. Damn what that fixer does to the mind!

whose problem has it become in the meantime?

Peter wrote:

whose problem has it become in the meantime?

I don't see that there is a problem.

Christopher Hartman wrote:
Good Read

maybye an old thread but this is still fucking acurate
tb

Christopher Hartman wrote:
Good Read

LOL @ "One reason that the ignorant also tend to be the blissfully self-assured, the researchers believe, is that the skills required for competence often are the same skills necessary to recognize competence."

That certainly applies to a few on MM

Sita Mae wrote:
...Maybe consider getting inventive about ways to create solid, dependable working relationships.  Isn't that a better way to spend your time than in constant frustration, venting on MM? 

Anyway.  Just a thought.

I agree!!!

Sita Mae wrote:
Maybe the problem is YOU

i have no doubt i am the problem....

Sita Mae wrote:
I wonder sometimes, amidst the plethora of accusatory threads that go back and forth between models and photographers, if it ever occurs to people to consider whether they are the source of their own problem.

Here's a little trick I use in my own life that may be of use to some of you:

If you find yourself running into the same problem over and over and over again in different situations with different people...you're the common denominator.  The problem might not be with them, but with you.

Example:

All the threads bitching about unreliable models.  If you run into that on a weekly basis, maybe there are other steps you can take to vet the models before you shoot them.  Have you talked with photographers they've shot with?  Do you have a good idea of what their reputation is like?  Do some homework.  It can save you all manner of grief.

Maybe consider getting inventive about ways to create solid, dependable working relationships.  Isn't that a better way to spend your time than in constant frustration, venting on MM? 

Anyway.  Just a thought.

The only flaw with your theory is that people who have the self-awareness to do this, don't usually run into the same problem over and over again.

Le Beck Photography wrote:

But But But... then they wouldn't have anything to complain about!

What would my wife and I have to talk about at the dinner table, she love to hear the latest story of why a model did not show. It may be irrating when it happens, but I laugh about it after with my wife and wonder what the next excuse will be and if it is as good.
Oh and she does like to see the images of the models who do show up as well and hear about the shoot.

Dave the design student wrote:
Shit, this is old. 

But you should still love the diva. LOVE HER!

Princess Kerry wrote:

Regardless of whether you were kidding or not...

Everyone loves a brain massage every now and then.

And so the Tin Man sings "If I only had a brain" 

Tom Linkens wrote:
Hmm. Throughout late spring and summer, I tried unsuccessfully to book five different models through this site. They all flaked. Then I tried asking, and was able to get three different agencies to say they would let me book thier models.

In five days I'll be working with the first model that was booked directly from an agency. So I'm sure the problem for me was unprofessional airheadedness, and/or foul play on this site.

See, it IS our problem. We just need to stop booking models off of MM.

Actually, I do pretty well off of MM, except when the model lives withing 45 miles of me. Farther than that, they have a fantastic rate of showing up.

Mistur Photography wrote:
In a TF shoot I offer:

- 3 hour shoot
- well equipped home studio
- a professional MUA
- an online private gallery within 24 hours
- 15 edited images both low and high rez
- wardrobe and accessories
- unlimited looks

4 cancellations in a row now. 3 of the cancellations were confirmed the night before the shoot. 1 booked a shoot and never logged on again.

I guess that makes me the common denominator. It must be all my fault.

I love Sita Mae, but her OP has both truth and a weakness.  Yes, one should look to see if oneself is the common denominator and why.  But by the law of averages even a decent and professional photographer is liable to get several flakes - or cancellations - in a row, if he shoots enough.

Vivus Hussein Denuo wrote:

I love Sita Mae, but her OP has both truth and a weakness.  Yes, one should look to see if oneself is the common denominator and why.  But by the law of averages even a decent and professional photographer is liable to get several flakes - or cancellations - in a row, if he shoots enough.

I've been shooting models for about twenty years and have only been flaked on once on a paid commercial shoot. Never even had a cancellation. So... No.

Mistur Photography wrote:
In a TF shoot I offer:

- 3 hour shoot
- well equipped home studio
- a professional MUA
- an online private gallery within 24 hours
- 15 edited images both low and high rez
- wardrobe and accessories
- unlimited looks

4 cancellations in a row now. 3 of the cancellations were confirmed the night before the shoot. 1 booked a shoot and never logged on again.

I guess that makes me the common denominator. It must be all my fault. I must take responsibility for the bad things that occur when I book a shoot. Models have had family members drop dead the day of the shoot, they have fallen and broken bones, contracted nasty aliments and flu, been stranded out of town, had their cars die, had their pets die... you have no idea how much grief I have caused, simply by booking a shoot.

Just because we spent hours planning on how we are going to shoot that model, went shopping to buy just the right outfit, picked up a new background, ordered a new light modifier, rented a special lens, booked the MUA 3 weeks ago.... these minor problems we have, are nothing compared to the nasty things that happen to models the day of a shoot.

I guess you didn't read the whole thread.

A YEAR AND A HALF ago, Sita said this.

Sita Mae wrote:
I wasn't saying that if something bad happens to someone that it's always their fault.  I am saying that, as I posted above, if the same situation recurs regularly with different people, it's worth at least taking a moment to see if there's something you're doing that contributes to it.

Sita Mae wrote:
I wasn't saying that if something bad happens to someone that it's always their fault.  I am saying that, as I posted above, if the same situation recurs regularly with different people, it's worth at least taking a moment to see if there's something you're doing that contributes to it.

My rant is part tongue in cheek and part sarcasm. I don't really believe that my shoots cause all this death and destruction. But I am taking a moment to see "if there is something I'm doing to contribute to it".

Brooks Ayola wrote:

I've been shooting models for about twenty years and have only been flaked on once on a paid commercial shoot. Never even had a cancellation. So... No.

One flake in 20 years?! That is an extraordinary record.

Shane Noir wrote:
my dog has gas.

Could be worse... could be you