Julian Marsalis wrote:
I heard from the grapevine that some people use it for fixing/enhancing skin tones. Anyone have any tips or tricks they care to share?

You could use it as a softlight layer to bump the contrast, in junction with a hue/sat layer to bring the colors back under control.

Could also maybe use it make a mask/layer to kill the reds in the shadows via apply image darken on the red channel, but there are better ways to go about getting a mask for that.

Also, could use it on a color layer to adjust the tones of the shadows, that's always a fun trick.

mikedimples wrote:
I believe you are referring to mapping out the skin colors on the gradient map to replace aberrant tones. This only looks believable when it's done to select areas - across the entire face looks unnatural. Create a new gradient map adjustment layer set to hue blending mode(or color mode if there's saturation variation in the area you need to fix), then keep making new tabs from color picked "good" skin tones at the appropriate tonal values. Mask out and paint in as needed.

I just tried this and it looks really good, works really well and was something I hadn't thought of. I did try the whole face, but very low opacity which cleaned up the tones nice too x

Solstice Retouch wrote:
I do it(...)Works well when done right, but doing it correctly is the key of course.

Show off

I left a comment in the pic... couldn't help myself  n.n

Solstice Retouch wrote:
I do it. I sample the highlights/shadows/midtones of a preferable skin type under similar lighting conditions (based upon light falloff) and apply it a gradient map. Put that on a inverted mask and set the layer style to color. Paint to reveal areas that need adjusting. I set the opacity of the layer to 25% usually. The men's series in my port was all done in the same manner to correct color tone issues that spread across the image.

Works well when done right, but doing it correctly is the key of course.

This is mostly for local adjustments, rather than global. But it can sometimes work for the entire area of skin.

This has been cut/pasted into my little book of secrets!

Solstice Retouch wrote:
I do it. I sample the highlights/shadows/midtones of a preferable skin type under similar lighting conditions (based upon light falloff) and apply it a gradient map. Put that on a inverted mask and set the layer style to color. Paint to reveal areas that need adjusting. I set the opacity of the layer to 25% usually. The men's series in my port was all done in the same manner to correct color tone issues that spread across the image.

Works well when done right, but doing it correctly is the key of course.

This is mostly for local adjustments, rather than global. But it can sometimes work for the entire area of skin.

So, do you create thre seperate maps or am I missing something.

Robert McCadden wrote:

So, do you create thre seperate maps or am I missing something.

Hey Robert,

Once you get the image, open up your swatches panel.

Now get the eye dropper and sample the color in the highlights of the skin, usually the lightest skin color, then hit "new" on a swatch. Continue with midtones, and shadows till you get 3 colors.

Next go to your adjustment layer panel, and hit "gradient map" and it will bring up the gradient map adjustment layer. Adjust the gradient so that the colors are the three that you picked. Set the layer to 'color' and opacity to 20 to 30%, based on what you like, and make sure the mask is black. And paint the mask white to reveal just the skin. If for some reason your colors look off, invert your adjustment gradient so that it's in the precise gradient from shadows to highlights.

Let me know if this helps.

Solstice Retouch wrote:

Hey Robert,

Once you get the image, open up your swatches panel.

Now get the eye dropper and sample the color in the highlights of the skin, usually the lightest skin color, then hit "new" on a swatch. Continue with midtones, and shadows till you get 3 colors.

All this time and I never noticed the little 'new' icon.  I feel like a complete idiot, but damn does that panel make more sense now .

Solstice Retouch wrote:

Hey Robert,

Once you get the image, open up your swatches panel.

Now get the eye dropper and sample the color in the highlights of the skin, usually the lightest skin color, then hit "new" on a swatch. Continue with midtones, and shadows till you get 3 colors.

Next go to your adjustment layer panel, and hit "gradient map" and it will bring up the gradient map adjustment layer. Adjust the gradient so that the colors are the three that you picked. Set the layer to 'color' and opacity to 20 to 30%, based on what you like, and make sure the mask is black. And paint the mask white to reveal just the skin. If for some reason your colors look off, invert your adjustment gradient so that it's in the precise gradient from shadows to highlights.

Let me know if this helps.

Thanks for taking the time to explain this.  I create the three swatches, but I can only use two of the; foreground and background.

Robert McCadden wrote:

Thanks for taking the time to explain this.  I create the three swatches, but I can only use two of the; foreground and background.

No problem --

Once you open up the gradient options, you should see the option to use two colors. To use three you can click between the two colors where the arrow is (ex.1) and it will allow you to set another color, which should be your midtone point.

If you want to send me a sample, I can set up the gradient map on the adjustment layer for you with a brushed mask to give you a physical idea.


(ex.1) click where the arrow is to open up the third color

Solstice Retouch wrote:
I do it. I sample the highlights/shadows/midtones of a preferable skin type under similar lighting conditions (based upon light falloff) and apply it a gradient map. Put that on a inverted mask and set the layer style to color. Paint to reveal areas that need adjusting. I set the opacity of the layer to 25% usually. The men's series in my port was all done in the same manner to correct color tone issues that spread across the image.

Works well when done right, but doing it correctly is the key of course.

This is mostly for local adjustments, rather than global. But it can sometimes work for the entire area of skin.

This trick is a brilliant way of tackling discoloration.

Solstice Retouch wrote:

No problem --

Once you open up the gradient options, you should see the option to use two colors. To use three you can click between the two colors where the arrow is (ex.1) and it will allow you to set another color, which should be your midtone point.

If you want to send me a sample, I can set up the gradient map on the adjustment layer for you with a brushed mask to give you a physical idea.


(ex.1) click where the arrow is to open up the third color

That make total sense.  Thanks again for taking the time to explain this.  Gradient mapping is something that I have been wanting to investigate w/ for a while now.

Robert

Solstice Retouch wrote:
If you want to send me a sample, I can set up the gradient map on the adjustment layer for you with a brushed mask to give you a physical idea.

C'mon -- somebody take Solstice up on this offer, then post the link here in the thread. I'd do it but I'm away from my NEF's. 

Solstice Retouch wrote:
Once you get the image, open up your swatches panel.

Now get the eye dropper and sample the color in the highlights of the skin, usually the lightest skin color, then hit "new" on a swatch. Continue with midtones, and shadows till you get 3 colors.

Next go to your adjustment layer panel, and hit "gradient map" and it will bring up the gradient map adjustment layer. Adjust the gradient so that the colors are the three that you picked. Set the layer to 'color' and opacity to 20 to 30%, based on what you like, and make sure the mask is black. And paint the mask white to reveal just the skin. If for some reason your colors look off, invert your adjustment gradient so that it's in the precise gradient from shadows to highlights.

Let me know if this helps.

Thanks so much Solstice!! I spent like 2 hours last night trying to find a tut on exactly this when I read the thread yesterday!! Did I find it explained like this? NOOO!! Completely arse ways it was!! neh!

Now re the gradient itself, is it better just to stay with a liner gradient and adjust its settings to the image or play around with it? ie radical or diamond etc? *eyeroll* I should just play with it huh?

Ni Anluain wrote:
Thanks so much Solstice!! I spent like 2 hours last night trying to find a tut on exactly this when I read the thread yesterday!! Did I find it explained like this? NOOO!! Completely arse ways it was!! neh!

Now re the gradient itself, is it better just to stay with a liner gradient and adjust its settings to the image or play around with it? ie radical or diamond etc? *eyeroll* I should just play with it huh?

Your using the wrong tool if your playing with settings like radical or diamond a "gradient map" does not have those options to play with nor should it. Basically you are toning the image ie remapping the colors based on values to the values in the gradient map.

Julian Marsalis wrote:
Your using the wrong tool if your playing with settings like radical or diamond a "gradient map" does not have those options to play with.

aye, I just had a brain fart moment!! iForgot is all.....

SRB Photo wrote:

All this time and I never noticed the little 'new' icon.  I feel like a complete idiot, but damn does that panel make more sense now .

Hehe, don't feel bad, happens to me all the time

Kinda of a good thing, we will never get bored

Solstice Retouch wrote:

Hey Robert,

Once you get the image, open up your swatches panel.

Now get the eye dropper and sample the color in the highlights of the skin, usually the lightest skin color, then hit "new" on a swatch. Continue with midtones, and shadows till you get 3 colors.

Next go to your adjustment layer panel, and hit "gradient map" and it will bring up the gradient map adjustment layer. Adjust the gradient so that the colors are the three that you picked. Set the layer to 'color' and opacity to 20 to 30%, based on what you like, and make sure the mask is black. And paint the mask white to reveal just the skin. If for some reason your colors look off, invert your adjustment gradient so that it's in the precise gradient from shadows to highlights.

Let me know if this helps.

I find that the gradient adjustment layer wants to default to a white mask, and I see no dialog to change it to a black mask.

What am I missing?

So far I got it to work by using black paint to hide all of it, and then re-paint in the part I need. How do you make the mask black to begin with?

Smedley Whiplash wrote:

I find that the gradient adjustment layer wants to default to a white mask, and I see no dialog to change it to a black mask.

What am I missing?

So far I got it to work by using black paint to hide all of it, and then re-paint in the part I need. How do you make the mask black to begin with?

Hit cnt + I to invert it or open apple + I (I think) if you use an alien spaceship compatible device

Virtuoso Skins wrote:
Hit cnt + I to invert it or open apple + I (I think) if you use an alien spaceship compatible device

Yeah, I kinda figured that out just a second ago. I don't understand gradient masks much yet, though this technique worked pretty well for me on an older couple I was working on a few minutes ago. (older men are kinda ruddy and red, whereas their wives can be quite pale) This helped much to even out that difference.

Which makes me wonder... if you had a group with a white guy, a black guy, and a native American, would you make a gradient layer mask for each of them based on their individual skin color?

Snap2 wrote:
Mikedimples got it right. The whole idea of using gradient maps to re-colorise skin, and for that matter most things, is a bad idea on the whole.

This is because gradient maps only use the underlying luminosity levels to map completely new and flat graduated colors. More than anything else, luminosity levels in an image are caused by illumination, - how much light is reflected or absorbed in areas. To assume that you can change color or hue based on mere luminosity, is a really stupid way to go about it. Hue and color ranges (to me these words refer to something completely separate to luminosity, density) are of course much more complex than that.   

The only retoucher I've ever seen arguing for the use of gradient maps to recolorise skin is whatsername Garness.

I also agree with mikedimples that gradient maps are best used in a localized way when working with skin colour. However their are always exceptions and some middle distance shots do even out very nicely when a gradient map is applied to larger skin areas. I am not going to close my mind off to any tool or technique that might be of use to me. Gry Garness has produced some beautiful work using her techniques and has been published widely. So I am a little surprised that you seem to be so dismissive of her. 

Another example would be Amy Dresser while she does not use Gradient Maps she does however use a single colour picked from the mid-tones placed into a fill layer and then applied to the skin area using the colour blend mode applied at reduced opacity and then masked in, a very similar idea to the way gradient maps are being suggested for use in this thread.

The point I am making here is that it's unfair to criticise only a small part of an individual technique. Gry Garness uses a variety of other tools in combination to make colour adjustments to the skin as a whole.

Gry and Amy are world class retouchers and although their methods differ they both advocate a way of working that involves building up their images by making lots of small changes. I for one am more likely to be influenced by Gry Garness than by whathisname Snap2 ......but I am always open to reasoned debate.

doctorontop wrote:
Granted the graduation is a fake generated spread so to keep a 'real look' the surface area covered by each map should be small and the shape of it should be sensitive to the target area it will cover.

Yes. But again - I don't get how light, what is illuminated and what is not - is interchangeable with hue. Natural hue values and ranges are adjustable in many other, better ways.

You could even use the blend-if's in a similar way if you wanted to change colour similar to a gradient map. These both are just using luminosity, not paying any attention to existing colour, and how those colours change at different density levels.

Snap2 wrote:

Yes. But again - I don't get how light, what is illuminated and what is not - is interchangeable with hue. Natural hue values and ranges are adjustable in many other, better ways.

You could even use the blend-if's in a similar way if you wanted to change colour similar to a gradient map. These both are just using luminosity, not paying any attention to existing colour, and how those colours change at different density levels.

I do it

All the time.

Gradients, colorize, painting and blend hue and then color (Always masked and painted back in at 15 to 30%)

Use wisely, in portions of skin, soft brushes- works

xx

Snap2 wrote:
Yes. But again - I don't get how light, what is illuminated and what is not - is interchangeable with hue. Natural hue values and ranges are adjustable in many other, better ways.

I'm impressed that you're considering how the illumination affects the skin color. I wish more retouchers did!

When the user is setting up the gradient map, he's color picking the color of the illuminated skin in a small area. As long as it's kept to a small space, there wont be much variable in the global illumination color, that's why it works well for tiny areas. Natural hue value ranges are best handled by gradient map when they're extremely damaged. It's just like saying, screw it - this color skin would be such a pain to correct that I'm just going to copy the good (illumination influenced) hues of the skin in a certain area and overwrite the whole thing.

If for example the skin that needed fixing crossed an area where there is additional reflected light, or where light in some way is changing the color of the skin, then a new gradient map would be required. A new map is needed for any changes in illumination color.

mikedimples wrote:
Natural hue value ranges are best handled by gradient map when they're extremely damaged. It's just like saying, screw it - this color skin would be such a pain to correct that I'm just going to copy the good (illumination influenced) hues of the skin in a certain area and overwrite the whole thing.

Yes Ok, we seem to agree.  I guess for damaged files and repair work, I can see that very carefully chosen and masked 'fake colour' repairs like this might help little there I will agree. But with a high quality raw capture, I still think its a mistake to think there's anything to be gained by applying a gradient map to natural luminosity levels. Personally I would think that carefully chosen colors using mulitiple Blend-if layers would be a better way to go, and more easy to work with in these cases.

Natalia_Taffarel wrote:
I do it

All the time.

xx

… not sure how I'm supposed to respond to that.

Snap2 wrote:
… not sure how I'm supposed to respond to that.

You can agree to disagree or just say : Good for you!

x