Danielle _ M wrote:
Terrific list!!

I like to know where to park or if there is parking provided.
Nothing worse than no parking around where the shoot is or if there is only meter parking so i can bring enough coins. I hate parking tickets!!

It was mentioned in the part about research but just briefly.

Barry  M  Robinson wrote:
Hey everyone, thanks for your support. Hopefully some of the photographers posting casting calls will read this thread and provide a bit more useful information.

Maybe you can repost it in the photography talk thread and just title it something like photographers: when casting an MUA.
Just trying to be helpful.

EmElle Makeup and Hair wrote:
Barry, I've only seen you around a short time, and I've only read a few posts - here and at my forum.  Can I just tell you that I love you?  (plutonically of course)

And he does great work too!

SweetPea wrote:
Maybe you can repost it in the photography talk thread and just title it something like photographers: when casting an MUA.
Just trying to be helpful.

I may do this in the future but what I'll do for now is to post a link back to this thread when I see the topic being discussed in other forums. That way I only have one thread should I need to update it.

Makeup By Alexander wrote:
A big one is

What type of make-up look they want.  Natural, glamour, any special effect required...

I'm adding this to the original post. I am a little bit wary of asking what type of look they want since what people consider to be "natural" or "glamor" varies considerably. A rough, comprehensive or a mood board tend to tell me more about what I need to do.

Azimuth Arts wrote:
And he does great work too!

Thanks

DMC wrote:
And your facility requirements are too rigid. If they dont have power, then you should have a butane curling iron. If they dont have water then hit MEC and bring a couple liters of your own. If they need to work outside learn to do your makeup removal using wipes and a hand towel.

He addresses this:

•Studio or location: This matters since it determines what I have to bring with me. If it is a large building or location where exactly are we meeting? What type of facilities are available for applying makeup? Is there a facility with warm running water available for removing makeup? (important for effects and character makeup)

I have a lot of just-in-case stuff in my trunk, but I do pack differently for indoor vs. outdoor prep so it's worth it to know a little about the location - if not in the casting call itself, early on in the negotiations. I think it's a reasonable question to ask, especially for MM TFP, and Barry is correct that sometimes these details are not forthcoming which makes it difficult to make a decision about the value of the test.

DMC wrote:
Not sure if the photographer's responsibility is to put all this info up front. In an ideal world, maybe, but in an ideal world I would be Bette Midler's personal MUA.

I think these are good questions to ask, but its kind of scary that someone would have to read a list like this to ask them. Nonetheless worthwhile for new artists as a checklist.

The whole thing does sound rather demanding and I rather doubt many photographers are going to compose a 3 paragraph job description. Better to not be an idiot artist and just expect the unexpected and have the brains to ask.

And your facility requirements are too rigid. If they dont have power, then you should have a butane curling iron. If they dont have water then hit MEC and bring a couple liters of your own. If they need to work outside learn to do your makeup removal using wipes and a hand towel.

Actually the more I read this post the more I feel its not that valuable. I think what would be more helpful is having a list of things a makeup artist should have so they never get caught with their pants down.

I think this is a little out of perspective Davis.
When I need to decide whether a TFP shoot is worth my while, this kind of information is indeed necessary. Off course I should be prepared to be able to work in all kind of circumstances (and I am), but........ am I willing to work that particulary photoshoot under these particulary circumstances for tfp.......

And since most casting calls on MM are regarding tfp-shoots this post by topic starter makes a very valuable point.

DMC wrote:
Not sure if the photographer's responsibility is to put all this info up front. In an ideal world, maybe, but in an ideal world I would be Bette Midler's personal MUA.

I think these are good questions to ask, but its kind of scary that someone would have to read a list like this to ask them. Nonetheless worthwhile for new artists as a checklist.

The whole thing does sound rather demanding and I rather doubt many photographers are going to compose a 3 paragraph job description. Better to not be an idiot artist and just expect the unexpected and have the brains to ask.

And your facility requirements are too rigid. If they dont have power, then you should have a butane curling iron. If they dont have water then hit MEC and bring a couple liters of your own. If they need to work outside learn to do your makeup removal using wipes and a hand towel.

Actually the more I read this post the more I feel its not that valuable. I think what would be more helpful is having a list of things a makeup artist should have so they never get caught with their pants down.

As others have mentioned, this is not a demand for certain facilities or items but a request for information so I can determine what things I should bring with me. There are also conditions in which a makeup artist simply cannot work; we can't be expected to own items which would allow us to cover every possible contingency. I've worked out of the back of my car, in a tent in the middle of the night and in cramped quarters but there are limits.

The quantity and quality of the information you get from the photographer tells you how much time, effort, and thought they've put into planning the shoot. A poorly planned, haphazard shoot is more likely to be cancelled at the last minute or result in unusable images. Not every bit of information needs to be in the casting call, it depends upon the shoot what is relevant, but it should be available.

Another part of the problem is that after replying to a casting call it is sometimes difficult to get a useful answer to a question even after several attempts.

Drew Smith Photography wrote:
Also I always try and have a 'plan B' or a back-up location. In the past I've had a Location 'flake' on me! Everything and everybody arranged and the day before I call the owners to double check we are still good to go and they informed me that it was no longer available

LOL this just happened to me last weekend! I was brought in on a two-day lifestyle shoot with a photographer; he'd found an estate that was available and supposedly had a good "in" with the owner so we started casting models and a stylist and planning out the day's schedule (I was heavily involved in the planning since I've worked a lot with the modeling agency). Sure enough, just days beforehand, the photographer calls the venue to confirm arrival times and finds out it is no longer available because someone rented it last minute. Fortunately, we were able to relocate to a backup venue that actually ended up working out great.

It's a good lesson, anyway... always have a plan B, "what if it rains," etc. I think because there are so many moving parts in a shoot, stylists like to know that details are being thought out carefully and there's a plan in place to ensure that we all benefit from the collaboration. (Some great shoots happen spontaneously, but when a big group and a lot of equipment is involved you really have to plan ahead.)

Barry  M  Robinson wrote:
I've come across quite a few castings on MM for MUAs recently which leave out important details. There are threads in this forum (https://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=775428, https://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=762843) in which photographers express difficulty in finding an MUA. Here is my take on some of the problems I've found with MM casting calls. I hope it will help those posting casting calls:

 •No time stated: If you have a time in mind or a time at which you've reserved studio space, state it clearly in the casting. If you don't, state a range of times.
 •Exact location not stated: The city where I live, Toronto, covers large area (urban area 1,749 km²) and where you are holding the shoot in the city does matter. Driving to a location can take an hour or longer depending on the time, day and season. I drive but some people take public transit which can take even longer and be a lot rougher when you're carrying your kit. Make sure you have the correct spelling of the street and include other indicators (north, south, east, west). It may seem obvious but I've encountered several castings where the actual location could not be determined even after several email exchanges.
 •Studio or location: This matters since it determines what I have to bring with me. If it is a large building or location where exactly are we meeting? What about electrical power? What type of facilities are available for applying makeup? Is there a facility with warm running water available for removing makeup? (important for effects and character makeup)
 •Who else are you working with?: I would like to know what the models look like so I can determine if they will be a good fit for my portfolio and to work on the look I'll do. Do the models have MM profiles or online portfolios? I may have to liaison with other people (stylists) to achieve a cohesive look. Provide the contact information I need in a timely manner or tell me when it will be available.
 •Have you done your research on the location?: Many sites used by photographers as backdrops are private and I don't want to be part of a shoot which ends up being shut down for lack of proper permits. In Toronto, some locations which require permits are Toronto Public Parks, the TTC (public transit), the Distillery District and the University of Toronto. Although two of the links specify wedding photography, often any photography that looks professional (tripods, lighting etc.) comes under scrutiny at these locations. In addition, what facilities are at the location such as parking? What about crowds at public/private venues? Will crowds cause problems with the shoot? Are there any security issues? Thoroughly research the location prior to posting a casting call.
 •Description: Describing a shoot as "creative" doesn't tell me anything at all. What is the purpose of the shoot, aside from creating images? Add to a portfolio? To test out an idea? A contest submission? What is the look? Do you have a rough or comprehensive available? Do you have a mood board? What about wardrobe or fashions? Colors? Special effects or prosthetics? If this is an unpaid shoot is it being done for portfolio/promo alone or is it a disguised commercial shoot for a client? You should be aware that for some shoots I may have to locate a supplier and purchase supplies such as a particular style of false eyelashes or special makeup effects materials. This takes time and planning. As far as I'm concerned, an ill-defined shoot and lack of a cohesive plan doesn't bode well for my participation.
 •What about YOU: Telling me to google your name or to email you for more details doesn't tell me what I need to know. You should be forthcoming with details in your original casting call (you can use a link to your bio or website if needed). Models and MUAs are dependent upon the photographer to deliver usable images in a timely manner in exchange for their work. I need to know a bit about the shoot and how it fits into your overall plans.
 •What do I get?: To make a rational decision on whether I'll participate in a shoot (paid or otherwise) I have to know what I will get for my work. Many MUAs have both an online portfolio and a print portfolio. Will I get a finished image without a visible watermark for my portfolio? (copyright/license data embedded using xmp or a similar method is okay) Will the digital image be delivered according to industry standards? (see UPDIG) What about a proper license for the image? (see PLUS) Will I get copies of the model release and will you provide me with a copy of the model release ahead of time so I can see if it is sufficient for my purposes? Are there any restrictions on using the images?

Finally, if you're a model or photographer please be aware that it is NOT an industry standard to pay a kit fee on photo shoots (kit fees are only for film or video). "Per look" or "per model" fees are NOT an industry standard either. Makeup artists charge by the day and half-day. Some makeup artists have testing fees/rates.

Does anyone have anything else to add?

I want to thank you for taking the time to post this. It helpful to know what some Stylists want to know before deciding on taking on a shoot.

My issue with some of these is that sometimes you won't know the answer to these questions until days before a shoot. Also, you have a chicken/egg problem when potential Models want to know who will be styling and the Stylists want to know who the Model is and neither want to commit until they know who the other will be.

Finally, half day and full day rates are typically not affordable for the majority of Photographers here. What's needed are testing rates or portfolio building rates. This is why the per look or per Model rates have been developed.

Mickle Design Werks wrote:
I want to thank you for taking the time to post this. It helpful to know what some Stylists want to know before deciding on taking on a shoot.

My issue with some of these is that sometimes you won't know the answer to these questions until days before a shoot. Also, you have a chicken/egg problem when potential Models want to know who will be styling and the Stylists want to know who the Model is and neither want to commit until they know who the other will be.

Finally, half day and full day rates are typically not affordable for the majority of Photographers here. What's needed are testing rates or portfolio building rates. This is why the per look or per Model rates have been developed.

Most of these questions are contingent upon the type and location of the shoot so not all are applicable to all shoots. Models really don't need to know what makeup artist will be doing the work (unless they've had a really bad experience with one, in which case they should tell the photographer). The makeup artist, however, should know who the models or potential models are at the earliest possible convenience. We apply makeup to the model's face and it is helpful to know what he or she looks like so we can think about colors and styles ahead of time. In cases where the model is not selected yet the photographer can let the makeup artist know what he or she is looking for in the model.

Regarding rates, a testing rate is okay, many makeup artists can charge that way. "Per look" or "per model" makeup fees are not professional. See this thread for views on "per look" or "per model" rates and why these rates are a problem.

The take home message here is that the photographer or model who posts the casting call should try to supply the makeup artist with relevant information about the shoot as early as possible.

Barry  M  Robinson wrote:

Most of these questions are contingent upon the type and location of the shoot so not all are applicable to all shoots. Models really don't need to know what makeup artist will be doing the work (unless they've had a really bad experience with one, in which case they should tell the photographer). The makeup artist, however, should know who the models or potential models are at the earliest possible convenience. We apply makeup to the model's face and it is helpful to know what he or she looks like so we can think about colors and styles ahead of time. In cases where the model is not selected yet the photographer can let the makeup artist know what he or she is looking for in the model.

Regarding rates, a testing rate is okay, many makeup artists can charge that way. "Per look" or "per model" makeup fees are not professional. See this thread for views on "per look" or "per model" rates and why these rates are a problem.

The take home message here is that the photographer or model who posts the casting call should try to supply the makeup artist with relevant information about the shoot as early as possible.

Thanks for clarifying that some of the needed info is contingent on the variables of the shoot.

I read the thread that you referred to and it seems to be making an argument for half day/full day rates only based on the job meeting a certain threshold for convenience and rate. I agree a per look rate can seem petty especially if there is only a slight change. OTOH, I don't want to pay a half-day rate for a Stylist when I only need one look and they can go on. So the Stylist that does the per look can be cost effective if I'm shooting one Model and only need one look. Stylists that insist on half day/full day rates only seem to me to make sense only if I'm planning mutiple looks with the same Model or if I'm shooting one look with multiple Models.

As I alluded to before, I would favor Stylist having a testing rate or portfolio rate that would be a reduced half day rate for images not used commercially. As a term of the invoice if the image is used commercially then the full half day rate is automatically charged unless the Stylist decides to waive the increase. This can protect against abuse for the reduced rate by those doing commercial work.

Barry  M  Robinson wrote:
Regarding rates, a testing rate is okay, many makeup artists can charge that way. "Per look" or "per model" makeup fees are not professional. See this thread for views on "per look" or "per model" rates and why these rates are a problem.

Sometimes I think you know every thread on here.  And I love that.  We are lucky to have you and your knowledge on this forum!

Mary wrote:
"per look" is the most ridiculous thing I have seen in this industry.  Who defines a look?  is that a lipstick change?  a 2 hour change?  a 10 minute change?  who manages all the details of what "a look" entails?  professionals charge for their time and you are opening a huge can of worms if you do anything else.

I "get" charging one rate for models and one for commercial clients..what model or photographer can afford a stylist or artist at a commercial rate? None I know of, so this makes sense to me and is a great way for artists and stylists to make money when work is slow... but per look is really silly and every time I see it I cringe

Makeup By Jae Lee wrote:
I do have full and half day rates.. and when it comes to being paid for testing with models/photographers.. what would a good price point be? I guess the best way to answer this for me is.. what precentage of your full and half day rate would you use to come up with a number for charging models/photographers when testing?

I used to work with models that would hire me for their portfolio... I would charge at the time $200.00 for 4 hours, about half of my commercial rate.  I think it's hard to get over $200.00 from a model or photographer and even that's a lot of money for most of them but the serious models and photographers pay it, or they used to.  I have not offered this kind of service in years.  If I were new in the industry I would do it for $100.00 just to gain experience on set and give me a little extra money set but I wouldn't stay over 3 or 4 hours. If I were building my but and the shoot was  a test for everyone with a great photographer and model I would do it as a test and not charge but it's rare I would find a model and photographer that good.


and anyone that asks me "per look" charge I know would never hire me...they aren't pros and they aren't looking to pay pro prices..

Makeup By Alexander wrote:
A big one is

What type of make-up look they want.  Natural, glamour, any special effect required...

That helps.

Mickle Design Werks wrote:
As I alluded to before, I would favor Stylist having a testing rate or portfolio rate that would be a reduced half day rate for images not used commercially. As a term of the invoice if the image is used commercially then the full half day rate is automatically charged unless the Stylist decides to waive the increase. This can protect against abuse for the reduced rate by those doing commercial work.

As mentioned in this thread, but I will expand on, many artists do have testing rates.  These are typically about 1/2 their normal commercial rate.  This is if they really don't feel the shoot is beneficial for their portfolio, but it is a job that needs doing, and they can do it well.  There are some (including me) that will offer reduced testing rates, when they believe there's a chance there might be an image or two they'll want.  These artists should make it clear that they may request an image for their portfolio and that they will want to see the results.  The reduced testing fee might be 1/4 of their commercial rate.

But please don't get into paying "kit fees".  Even the reduced testing fee should be higher than the typical "kit fee".  Kit fees are not professional in print work, just as charging per look and per model are not professional.  (Kit fees are *only* for film/tv and are in addition to a day rate.)

Makeup By Alexander wrote:
A big one is

What type of make-up look they want.  Natural, glamour, any special effect required...

Stephanie DellAira wrote:
That helps.

It truly does, because I don't do FX.  Nothing worse than booking a job because they tell you it will be a simple powdering job, then lose the job because they want old age, or beard laying.

Mary wrote:

I used to work with models that would hire me for their portfolio... I would charge at the time $200.00 for 4 hours, about half of my commercial rate.  I think it's hard to get over $200.00 from a model or photographer and even that's a lot of money for most of them but the serious models and photographers pay it, or they used to.  I have not offered this kind of service in years.  If I were new in the industry I would do it for $100.00 just to gain experience on set and give me a little extra money set but I wouldn't stay over 3 or 4 hours. If I were building my but and the shoot was  a test for everyone with a great photographer and model I would do it as a test and not charge but it's rare I would find a model and photographer that good.


and anyone that asks me "per look" charge I know would never hire me...they aren't pros and they aren't looking to pay pro prices..

If I ask per look it is because I want to know how much someone charges for one look.

Headshots -- clean natural probably 45 minutes in make-up max if the MUA is slow.

I tend to work with the same make-up artists repeatedly so I don't have to ask their rates.

Star wrote:
things to consider-

lighting temperature, is it outdoors, is it indoors, are they using strobes or hot lights
will there be wind machines or fog affects? If outdoors what is the expected weather? Is the location shady or is there a lot of direct sunlight?

Color temperature, type of lighting and shade versus sunlight are more of a concern to the photographer than to the makeup artist. The photographer controls the lighting, whether natural or artificial, with modifiers such as reflectors and this falls outside the scope of makeup. When applying makeup I'm concerned with the type of light I'm applying it under relative to the light used in the actual shoot (see this). Minor modifications to makeup on location or at the studio to compensate for lighting are usually trivial. A mention of weather may be applicable for shoots occurring within a few days of the casting call.

Makeup By Jae Lee wrote:
I have never asked for a kit fee, brush fee (I recently read a profile and the MUA states that she charges a brush fee o.O), milage etc. All my rates have EVERYTHING factored in.. even bridal work has one set price for the Brides and Bridesmaids so they never see different charges adding up.

I saw a brush fee listed on a profile also; it was for disposable lip and mascara brushes. Given the small number and low price of these brushes, my own opinion is that a brush fee is nickel-and-diming. If you're a makeup artist doing an unpaid test then what you're receiving in images should be worth much more than the cost of a few disposable brushes, otherwise you shouldn't be doing it unpaid. If you're getting paid then the cost of these disposables is negligible.

Barry  M  Robinson wrote:
When applying makeup I'm concerned with the type of light I'm applying it under relative to the light used in the actual shoot

and this has become a retouching nightmare for me. Colors change depending on the the color temp of the lights being used. I more than once have had to send people back because i say no cool or blue based colors can be used. They come in to the shoot with "grey" eye shadow, and i have to send them back because it will photograph as blue. now I've lost 30-45 minutes of shoot time, time that i need to finish the editorial.

I have had make-up artists not understand that we are using a giant umbrella and that if the coverage is not perfect, the lights will magnify every flaw. The situation was explained beforehand, but one poor woman still had to go back three times. The last time I just said, remove the base and just lightlypowder her, i will fix any skin problems in post.

Direct sunlight needs different contouring, and even amount of make-up, then interior images shot with northern facing windows and reflectors. In the first instance I need a heavier make-up to stand up to the additional light, in the second I can't use anything too heavy or the model will look waaaaayyyyy overdone.

Are the lights gridded monolights? Cause those things are hot! Make-up can melt off and you need to be able to touch up and not count on the make-up not smudging.

Depending on the lighting the entire mood of the face can change, and it is important to know what lighting does if you want to do this full time on professional sets.

My suggestion is to always take your models to a window and examine them in natural light before sending them to set if you are applying make-up with anything other than neutral even lighting.