You told her your terms.
Cancel.

I've noticed that this advice pops up often -- in fact, I copied & pasted this from another thread.  This is the popular response to photographers complains, like...
   ...  Model declines the initial offer; model makes a counteroffer,
   ...  Model wants to be paid,
   ...  Model doesn't want to pay the photographer,
   ...  Model wants to bring an escort,
   ...  Model doesn't want to be touched,
   ...  Model can't spell,
   ...  Model hasn't logged on in the past week,
   ...  Model can't/won't call 24 hours in advance to confirm,
   ...  Model has a manager,
   ...  Model has someone else negotiate her terms,
   ...  Model wants more pictures,
   ...  Model wants all the pictures,
   ...  Model doesn't want watermarked pictures,
   ...  etc.

I'd like to think I'm a flexible guy (and I'll admit that I'm not 100% flexible), but it seems to me that folks are willing to give up / cancel at the slightest provocation. 

I also understand that lots of people (most of us?) are not comfortable with negotiation, but I believe that negotiating is a key business skill.  Yet, it seems that people take counteroffers personally and that they would rather walk away from a deal than make a counter offer.

So, question:  are agreements really this difficult & fragile?

Good Egg Productions wrote:
People's "hard and fast, non-negotiable" rules all seem to be less hard and fast and VERY negotiable the moment an opportunity comes along that the person wants very very badly.

Art of the nude wrote:
I have "non negotiable" things, but mostly, I just want circumstances that let me be comfortable and productive in getting the results I or the client want, within the relevant budget.

Fotographahaulic wrote:
Sometimes it's just too much . . . and the deal sours.

I do understand your sentiments.

I would say that experienced negotiators feel that "everything is negotiable".

And yes, all experienced negotiators will tell you that sometimes the best deal you can make is the one where you walk away.  If there isn't a point where you are willing to say "no thank you", you aren't negotiating. 

My question is where do you draw the line?  Some of the "excuses" posted on these threads seem highly trivial to me, like ...
   ...  Deciding not to work with a model who hasn't had activity in the past week.
   ...  Accepting escorts, but not boyfriends as escorts,
   ...  Not bothering to look at profiles where the model's age is an obvious typo.

Looknsee Photography wrote:
So, question:  are agreements really this difficult & fragile?

No, but I think that the issue is really that they fear loosing the shoot. What they should be fearing is the repercussions from having a shoot that is already headed down the wrong path.

When a model disagrees with my term, has a "policy" on her page that disagrees with my "policy" or any factor that does not coincide with my terms I inform the model as to why I chose not to work with them. If they are willing to agree 100% to my terms, we shoot. If not, we don't. Simple.

Looknsee Photography wrote:

I've noticed that this advice pops up often -- in fact, I copied & pasted this from another thread.  This is the popular response to photographers complains, like...
   ...  Model declines the initial offer; model makes a counteroffer,
   ...  Model wants to be paid,
   ...  Model doesn't want to pay the photographer,
   ...  Model wants to bring an escort,
   ...  Model doesn't want to be touched,
   ...  Model can't spell,
   ...  Model hasn't logged on in the past week,
   ...  Model can't/won't call 24 hours in advance to confirm,
   ...  Model has a manager,
   ...  Model has someone else negotiate her terms,
   ...  Model wants more pictures,
   ...  Model wants all the pictures,
   ...  Model doesn't want watermarked pictures,
   ...  etc.

I'd like to think I'm a flexible guy (and I'll admit that I'm not 100% flexible), but it seems to me that folks are willing to give up / cancel at the slightest provocation. 

I also understand that lots of people (most of us?) are not comfortable with negotiation, but I believe that negotiating is a key business skill.  Yet, it seems that people take counteroffers personally and that they would rather walk away from a deal than make a counter offer.

So, question:  are agreements really this difficult & fragile?

I'm pretty flexible when it comes to many things in way of working with a model (I don't mind escorts as long as they keep out of my way)...I touch when I need to touch and keep my hands to myself when I don't...I show the images to the model after the shoot (and offer some imput)...etc.

The only thing I am not flexible on are my RAWS.

If the model wants my RAWS then they should be preapred to offer a nice amount of $$$ for them (no exceptions and this now goes for magazines as well).

Fotographahaulic wrote:
Sometimes it's just too much . . . and the deal sours.

Communication is key . . . but nothing is assured.

.......sign of the times.....

Looknsee Photography wrote:


I would say that experienced negotiators feel that "everything is negotiable".

I frequently negotiate large deals (7 to 9 figures) for a living, and have done this for a few decades.  I can assure you, experienced negotiators do NOT think that "everything is negotiable."  Those who think that "everything is negotiable" haven't figured out what they really need for a deal to work, apropos of your original question, and they are more likely to have failed deals.   

I don't generally pay models, but, from time to time, someone will strike me as interesting enough to justify a payment.  In those cases,  I make what, for me, is a fair offer.  I'm usually done at that point:  negotiating isn't generally worth my time. If the model wants to work with me, great, if not, I move on.

TAFL wrote:
There are a great many things that I find non-negotiable, simply because I have no interest in shooting if those terms aren't met. The basic terms of a shoot that I describe aren't offered as a beginning point for negotiation, they're the essential terms that will apply or I'm not interested in shooting.

The terms that are negotiable are terms that I either don't mention (and the model brings up) or things that I ask about to get feedback (and am thus obviously looking to negotiate details).

Well; I have things that are "non negotiable" but allow for creativity.  I don't want to derail this thread, so I won't get specific at the moment.

Looknsee Photography wrote:

I've noticed that this advice pops up often -- in fact, I copied & pasted this from another thread.  This is the popular response to photographers complains, like...
   ...  Model declines the initial offer; model makes a counteroffer,
   ...  Model wants to be paid,
   ...  Model doesn't want to pay the photographer,
   ...  Model wants to bring an escort,
   ...  Model doesn't want to be touched,
   ...  Model can't spell,
   ...  Model hasn't logged on in the past week,
   ...  Model can't/won't call 24 hours in advance to confirm,
   ...  Model has a manager,
   ...  Model has someone else negotiate her terms,
   ...  Model wants more pictures,
   ...  Model wants all the pictures,
   ...  Model doesn't want watermarked pictures,
   ...  etc.

I'd like to think I'm a flexible guy (and I'll admit that I'm not 100% flexible), but it seems to me that folks are willing to give up / cancel at the slightest provocation. 

I also understand that lots of people (most of us?) are not comfortable with negotiation, but I believe that negotiating is a key business skill.  Yet, it seems that people take counteroffers personally and that they would rather walk away from a deal than make a counter offer.

So, question:  are agreements really this difficult & fragile?

I used to be flexible. But, several times I saw that being flexible did nothing for the situation. If somebody cancels at the last moment for example no matter how many times you give her a chance she will cancel. Unfortunately that is my experience. Based on your experiences you develop some rules (for yourself). How flexible do you want to be? Depends on what your alternative is.

Damianne wrote:
I think it's more that if you're so upset about it you have to come to the forums and bitch, you obviously shouldn't have the shoot.

^that.
Plus, a lot of people come to the forums asking if they should still go on with the shoot even if the model/photographer has done (typically) more than one thing that seems unreasonable, strange, creepy, etc. And if you're having doubts, or think that something about a shoot will come back to bite you in the ass in one way or another, so much so that you have to ask other members on model mayhem...the obvious answer is to cancel.

Looknsee Photography wrote:

I've noticed that this advice pops up often -- in fact, I copied & pasted this from another thread.  This is the popular response to photographers complains, like...
   ...  Model declines the initial offer; model makes a counteroffer,
   ...  Model wants to be paid,
   ...  Model doesn't want to pay the photographer,
   ...  Model wants to bring an escort,
   ...  Model doesn't want to be touched,
   ...  Model can't spell,
   ...  Model hasn't logged on in the past week,
   ...  Model can't/won't call 24 hours in advance to confirm,
   ...  Model has a manager,
   ...  Model has someone else negotiate her terms,
   ...  Model wants more pictures,
   ...  Model wants all the pictures,
   ...  Model doesn't want watermarked pictures,
   ...  etc.

I'd like to think I'm a flexible guy (and I'll admit that I'm not 100% flexible), but it seems to me that folks are willing to give up / cancel at the slightest provocation. 

I also understand that lots of people (most of us?) are not comfortable with negotiation, but I believe that negotiating is a key business skill.  Yet, it seems that people take counteroffers personally and that they would rather walk away from a deal than make a counter offer.

So, question:  are agreements really this difficult & fragile?

I would say age makes a difference.  Also, here in the US people aren't used to haggling.

Looknsee Photography wrote:
I'd like to think I'm a flexible guy (and I'll admit that I'm not 100% flexible), but it seems to me that folks are willing to give up / cancel at the slightest provocation. 

Yet, it seems that people take counteroffers personally and that they would rather walk away from a deal than make a counter offer.

So, question:  are agreements really this difficult & fragile?

Looknsee Photography wrote:
I would say that experienced negotiators feel that "everything is negotiable".

Looknsee Photography wrote:
So, I guess I'm asking -- what's important, and what's trivial?

Some people are stuck in their ways and don't want to change.

Looknsee, you are an enigma.

https://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=787701

Ash Sinclair wrote:
I just wonder what would happen if people took the same approach to non-negotiating in other areas of their life (or what a miserable life they have if they do).

Car Salesman for example- If they didn't negotiate at certain times during their pay period (ie the end of the month), I doubt they would get paid as often or as much.

Ordering a steak- What if the cook told you the only way they cook it is medium rare, but you don't like to see or taste blood? 

***Bottom line is: If you are so good that you make all the money (and art) you can with the non-negotiating policy you currently use, don't change it.  If you're missing work or opportunities with models that you regret having lost, it might be time to rethink your policy.  (in my opinion, most photographers and models think they are better than they actually are "including me" and its an ego thing).

Looknsee Photography wrote:

Art of the nude wrote:
I have "non negotiable" things, but mostly, I just want circumstances that let me be comfortable and productive in getting the results I or the client want, within the relevant budget.

I do understand your sentiments.

I would say that experienced negotiators feel that "everything is negotiable".

And yes, all experienced negotiators will tell you that sometimes the best deal you can make is the one where you walk away.  If there isn't a point where you are willing to say "no thank you", you aren't negotiating. 

My question is where do you draw the line?  Some of the "excuses" posted on these threads seem highly trivial to me, like ...
   ...  Deciding not to work with a model who hasn't had activity in the past week.
   ...  Accepting escorts, but not boyfriends as escorts,
   ...  Not bothering to look at profiles where the model's age is an obvious typo.

whoever said everything is negotiable is crazy

Looknsee Photography wrote:

I've noticed that this advice pops up often -- in fact, I copied & pasted this from another thread.  This is the popular response to photographers complains, like...
   ...  Model declines the initial offer; model makes a counteroffer,
   ...  Model wants to be paid,
   ...  Model doesn't want to pay the photographer,
   ...  Model wants to bring an escort,
   ...  Model doesn't want to be touched,
   ...  Model can't spell,
   ...  Model hasn't logged on in the past week,
   ...  Model can't/won't call 24 hours in advance to confirm,
   ...  Model has a manager,
   ...  Model has someone else negotiate her terms,
   ...  Model wants more pictures,
   ...  Model wants all the pictures,
   ...  Model doesn't want watermarked pictures,
   ...  etc.

I'd like to think I'm a flexible guy (and I'll admit that I'm not 100% flexible), but it seems to me that folks are willing to give up / cancel at the slightest provocation. 

I also understand that lots of people (most of us?) are not comfortable with negotiation, but I believe that negotiating is a key business skill.  Yet, it seems that people take counteroffers personally and that they would rather walk away from a deal than make a counter offer.

So, question:  are agreements really this difficult & fragile?

...  Model can't spell,..now your getting really picky!!..lol..