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Photographer
Rik Williams
Posts: 3,341
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia


Ever get moments when it seems the world is full of flakes?

I'm sure both models and photographers can relate to this feeling.

I shot 3 amazing lingerie series last weekend, only to have 3 ladies drop on me this weekend.

Oh well, I guess the odds catch up with you sooner or later.

Tell us your worst flake stories.
Oct 12 12 05:52 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Looknsee Photography
Posts: 21,031
Portland, Oregon, US


People tend not to believe me, but I've had two flakes in the last 18 years.

Some reasons why I think I have such a good "flake ratio":

...  I am selective when it comes to models.  I prefer experienced ones.  (Models
     who flake tend not to last long enough to become "experienced").

...  I check references.  Photographers in this area talk with each other, and we
     can share both good & bad information about models.

...  I am professional, laid back, positive, empathetic & constructive.

...  I treat models as respected adults.  I don't ask for deposits.  I don't insist on
     phone calls.  I don't require face-to-face meetings.  If she says she'll be at
     the photo session at a certain time, I believe her.

...  I am experienced myself.

...  I am clear in my communications.  We discuss expectations before we agree to
     work together.

...  I produce images that are of sufficient quality & uniqueness that models want
     to work for me.

...  Most times, I pay models (because my web site brings in revenue).

There are probably other factors, but that's the gist of it.
Oct 12 12 07:39 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mortonovich
Posts: 5,333
San Diego, California, US


big_smile
Oct 12 12 07:44 am  Link  Quote 
Model
MichelleGenevieve
Posts: 97
Austin, Texas, US


My ratio currently stands at 50 / 50, with some pending that could go either way.  It's puzzling - even after I respond with a Yes some photographers simply vanish with no further contact.

Maybe their grandmothers died?
Oct 12 12 08:09 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
BlueMoonPics
Posts: 4,144
New York, New York, US


I have mostly misses especially now since I'm trying to add fashion/editorial styles to my portfolio.  I offer to pay and I either get mostly no response or some contact then it ends.  I put these people on my personal black list.  Seriously wish people would say "no thanks". Yup, SOS.

I've had people disappear on me for paid stock shoots even after I've worked with them several times before and they asked me to shoot them.

I'm thinking I will change my tactics and never offer pay to anyone again.  When I do TF it seems to work better for me.  Go figure.

I wish I could contact with other photographers about whom to work with, etc. but it doesn't seem to happen for me so I go it alone.
Oct 12 12 08:09 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Solas
Posts: 9,486
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


I'm too awesome to be stood up wink
Oct 12 12 08:14 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Alivia Autumn
Posts: 610
Albuquerque, New Mexico, US


I've only shot with ten photographers in 6 months and I'm at 100% hit, similar to the other poster, I'm very selective on who I work with and check references.

Now people who fall off the face of the earth mid email or mid planning, that's another story lol. And it happens often.
Oct 12 12 08:18 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Garry k
Posts: 26,945
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada


around 80 per cent for the models i meet online or in the real world

around 98 percent with respect to those that I set up shoots with
Oct 12 12 08:23 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Cherrystone
Posts: 36,300
Columbus, Ohio, US


I've had few few flakes....and my definition of such is broader than the popular MM definition.
Oct 12 12 08:26 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Cole Morrison
Posts: 3,958
Portland, Oregon, US


Though I've modeled for less than 2 years, I have never flaked nor have I been flaked on.
Oct 12 12 08:27 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Don Garrett
Posts: 4,304
Escondido, California, US


I'm at 100% (success), with llamas I've set shoots up with, both here, and on the outside, and that is after MANY years of doing this. I have had one or two say no BEFORE setting a shoot up, and one priced herself out of the shoot, (I suspect she simply didn't want to shoot with me, for whatever reason). I can't remember a bad shooting experience with any of them, though a woman vomited in my car once.
  Life is good !
-Don
Oct 12 12 08:29 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jhono Bashian
Posts: 2,432
Cleveland, Ohio, US


Don Garrett wrote:
I had a woman vomited in my car once.   Life is good !
-Don

I hate when that happens!

Karl Johnston wrote:
I'm too awesome to be stood up wink

LOL....

Oct 12 12 08:38 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Backstreet Photography
Posts: 137
Salem, Oregon, US


If people don't have enough respect for themselves to honor their word, then it goes without saying that they don't have enough respect for you to show up for the shoot.  Sadly, we live in a world where a persons word is nothing more than an EMPTY promise in many cases.   An empty barrel makes the most noise ~~~ m'
Oct 12 12 08:43 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Don Garrett
Posts: 4,304
Escondido, California, US


Jhono Bashian wrote:

I hate when that happens!


LOL....

I've definitely had better experiences on the way to a shoot !
-Don

Oct 12 12 08:44 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
BlueMoonPics
Posts: 4,144
New York, New York, US


Backstreet Photography wrote:
If people don't have enough respect for themselves to honor their word, then it goes without saying that they don't have enough respect for you to show up for the shoot.  Sadly, we live in a world where a persons word is nothing more than an EMPTY promise in many cases.   An empty barrel makes the most noise ~~~ m'

It seems so easy nowadays to hide behind a keyboard.

Oct 12 12 08:46 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Abbitt Photography
Posts: 11,412
Oakland Acres, Iowa, US


It has sometimes gone in streaks for me as well - may have several in a row all follow through and then several in row all cancel.  I'd say overall, 50% or so cancel.  (but I'm also a 100 mile trip for most models where I live)

In the case of those who cancel, I can almost always tell there is a good chance they will cancel.  I book them anyways for the simple reason that if I book 4 models who have a 50% chance of canceling, it will likely result in 2 shoots.  If I don't book any of the four, I am absolutley guaranteed none of them will show up.

If I only booked reliable models, it would mean spending more than I can afford and/or rarely shooting.  I choose to shoot affordably and put up with more cancelations.
Oct 12 12 08:48 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Miroslava Svoboda
Posts: 555
Seattle, Washington, US


So far still good, I don't flake and they don't flake.
Oct 12 12 08:49 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Barry Kidd Photography
Posts: 2,408
Red Lion, Pennsylvania, US


My worst as far as numbers?  I had four flakes in a row over perhaps a on month time frame in 2007.

My worst ever?  Had no call no show for a calender set in 2011 where there were about nine people involved in prepping for the shoot.  I felt like an ass.

Second worse:  I canceled a shoot the someday because my wife was very sick. (She had the pig flu or some damn mess) I wanted to stay home with her.  Model wrecked my good reputation by trash talking me really bad.  That was also 2007.  I guess 2007 was a bad year for me.
Oct 12 12 08:49 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
KonstantKarma
Posts: 2,513
Hickory, North Carolina, US


I haven't had a flake so far, but I'm also selective and shoot part-time. So 10/10 ain't bad.
Oct 12 12 08:54 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Looknsee Photography
Posts: 21,031
Portland, Oregon, US


>>>>>  Tangent Alert  >>>>>

In baseball, if you get a hit every three tries, you are doing really well.

Oct 12 12 11:22 am  Link  Quote 
Model
kenneth kussman
Posts: 4
Los Angeles, California, US


Post hidden on Oct 12, 2012 12:22 pm
Reason: off-topic
Comments:
spam is the people's enemy
Oct 12 12 11:29 am  Link 
Photographer
Orca Bay Images
Posts: 32,233
Lodi, California, US


Barry Kidd Photography wrote:
Second worse:  I canceled a shoot the someday because my wife was very sick. (She had the pig flu or some damn mess) I wanted to stay home with her.  Model wrecked my good reputation by trash talking me really bad.  That was also 2007.  I guess 2007 was a bad year for me.

You should've invited the model over and had your wife sneeze on her. Give her a solid appreciation for why you cancelled the shoot.

Oct 12 12 02:13 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Orca Bay Images
Posts: 32,233
Lodi, California, US


I rarely get a flakeout any more, but I do get a shitload of younger models talk a big game in negotiations and then vanish.
Oct 12 12 02:15 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Eridu
Posts: 623
Boston, Massachusetts, US


I've learned to be much more selctive and much less patronizing where finding quality people are concerned. Finally developed a good sense of who is a flake, a diva or a ditz...hence my sitting here typing this.
Oct 12 12 02:18 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Art of the nude
Posts: 11,849
Olivet, Michigan, US


Looknsee Photography wrote:
People tend not to believe me, but I've had two flakes in the last 18 years.
>
>
>

...  Most times, I pay models (because my web site brings in revenue).

There are probably other factors, but that's the gist of it.

Not that the rest is bad ideas, but I think you could have covered it with this.

Oct 12 12 02:44 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Shortbus Photography
Posts: 29
Watkins Glen, New York, US


For me I have about 70% flake on me and 30% don't.  I think the reason is because I am just starting out and cannot afford the professional models.
Oct 12 12 02:46 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Orca Bay Images
Posts: 32,233
Lodi, California, US


Shortbus Photography wrote:
For me I have about 70% flake on me and 30% don't.  I think the reason is because I am just starting out and cannot afford the professional models.

I don't pay models and I almost never get a now-show/no-call flake any more. Just establish some protocols that prevent you from being flaked on.

Oct 12 12 02:49 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
wakari studio
Posts: 19
Washington, District of Columbia, US


I've had good luck so far... 1 flake, 5 showed up in the past year.
Oct 12 12 02:54 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Shortbus Photography
Posts: 29
Watkins Glen, New York, US


Orca Bay Images wrote:

I don't pay models and I almost never get a now-show/no-call flake any more. Just establish some protocols that prevent you from being flaked on.

good Idea what protocols do you suggest?

Oct 12 12 02:55 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Bold Sheep Photography
Posts: 234
Blacksburg, Virginia, US


About 20% flake rate. I am more careful and selective now than I used to be. I am getting better at sensing by an initial response who is just goofing around and who takes this seriously.
Oct 12 12 02:58 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Dark Shadows
Posts: 2,269
Miami, Florida, US


At this stage I no longer have a problem with models not showing up. The last time I experienced a 'flake' I believe was in 2010.

However, I do get paid clients cancelling on me, so it all balances out.
Oct 12 12 03:04 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Dark Shadows
Posts: 2,269
Miami, Florida, US


DP
Oct 12 12 03:04 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Good Egg Productions
Posts: 15,243
Orlando, Florida, US


Ratios aside, I liken it to golf.

Golf is really frustrating.  You can hack up 13 holes in a row and lose 6 balls in the process, but on the 14th hole you happen to take that 6 iron out and pop it high and straight and somehow roll it up about 3 feet from the cup.  Then you two putt that and lose two more balls and score an amazing 112 for the round.

But when you're having your third beer at the course bar, all you REALLY care about is that beautiful approach shot on the 14th.

And that's why you make a reservation for next week.
Oct 12 12 03:11 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Eridu
Posts: 623
Boston, Massachusetts, US


Orca Bay Images wrote:

I don't pay models and I almost never get a now-show/no-call flake any more. Just establish some protocols that prevent you from being flaked on.

Verify, phone confirmation, overbook?

Oct 12 12 03:17 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
CSquared Imagery
Posts: 1,153
Whittier, California, US


I guess it really comes down to what qualifies a non shoot as flaked on, when it comes to a physical no show, I get 1 for about ever 20 shoots, if were talking about once a shoot is scheduled, wardrobe and location set, date confirmed and at the last minute bail or stop communications.....about 1 of every 4 go away never to happen.   
   I'm used to the game by now, however it still blows when a model decides that she has better things to do...Oh well, i'll just be happy to work with the accountable ones!

~CC
Oct 12 12 03:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
4point0
Posts: 687
Los Angeles, California, US


I'm not exactly located in the model capital but as I told my former assistant, I've had an easier time shooting Facebook founders and heads of state than local "models".
Oct 12 12 03:29 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Perc Powell Studios
Posts: 736
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US


If your just playing and just doing this for yourself... then you have to put up with the "flakes" on here ( a lot of them here in the U.S. I might ad ). If it"s for a "real" paying client.. and you are booking off this site... GOOD LUCK!

IMHO ..... : )
Oct 12 12 03:40 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
J Cuff Productions
Posts: 3
Jacksonville, Florida, US


been shooting since 2010... 1 no call/no show... 2 last minute cancellations so 3 total. not bad out of 40 some models. CUFF
Oct 12 12 03:43 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Eridu
Posts: 623
Boston, Massachusetts, US


I don't take MM all that seriously as a resource for llamas anymore but, every once in awhile someone comes along to prove an exception.
Oct 12 12 03:48 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Orca Bay Images
Posts: 32,233
Lodi, California, US


Shortbus Photography wrote:
good Idea what protocols do you suggest?

1) Learn some of the traits of flakes (note: hardly a comprehensive list). Be wary of:
    A) Unrealistic hopes and expectations
    B) Excessive enthusiasm
    C) Poor/inconsistent communication
    D) Fear and skittishness (especially if it manifests itself in boyfriend/husband is
        required as escort)
    E) If the model seems skittish, suggest she participate in a
        multi-model shoot with hair/MUA in attendance.

2) Do a cursory background check on the model. It's not foolproof.
    A) Check the model's profile tags. Are there any photographers leaving tags like,
        "What happened to you?" That's a kiss of death if those tags exist.
    B) Ask photographers who've worked with that model. (You'll rarely get a negative
        response, but you can verify the model's work ethic.)
    C) Ask other photographers you know if they'd dealt with the model. By this
        method I have found out some models have a history of flaking.
    D) If in doubt, include the model in a multi-model shoot. If she
        bails, you still have someone else to work with. And the model
        who does show gets our undivided attention.


3) Establish a policy for communication and timely response. Let the model know.
    A) For me, in the last 4-5 days before the shoot, any response slower than 24
        hours may terminate the shoot.
    B) I contact the model the day before the shoot to verify. If by the day of the
        shoot I don't get a response, I try one last time by email and voice call.
        No reply within an hour or two, no shoot.
    C) I don't hit the road without hearing from the model (voice call or email) on the
        day of the shoot.
    NOTE: When told about my requirement for timely response, most models are
             pretty good about contacting me proactively.

Oct 12 12 03:49 pm  Link  Quote 
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