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Photographer
Lakeshore Photography
Posts: 171
Holland, Michigan, US


I'm just getting into this industry and I'm wondering if photographers are expected to edit their images for the models or if some do and some do not. Basically, I am way too much of a busy body to sit in front of a computer for hours on end smile I'd much rather be outdoors.

If any of you photographers or models have someone you would recommend for retouching or editing I would appreciate it if you could pass along the MM number or send me a message with their contact information if they're not on MM.

Thanks in advance!
Oct 13 12 08:28 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
AJ_In_Atlanta
Posts: 12,658
Atlanta, Georgia, US


Well yes a photographer edits images.  That is selected the best, adjust crop, color balance, and that sort of thing.

Retocuhing is another issue and job.  Many here do their own but a lot of working professionals hire it out just like th old days.  Being digital has encouraged more photographers (and people) to enter the field but it's still no uncommon to sub contract it.

If you have some specific artistic vision that you want to achieve then doing it yourself makes sense.  Sub contracting however can make more business sense.  If you can hire someone for X amount and you could yourself be earning X + n during that same time it's a no brainer.
Oct 13 12 08:41 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Lakeshore Photography
Posts: 171
Holland, Michigan, US


AJScalzitti wrote:
Well yes a photographer edits images.  That is selected the best, adjust crop, color balance, and that sort of thing.

Retocuhing is another issue and job.  Many here do their own but a lot of working professionals hire it out just like th old days.  Being digital has encouraged more photographers (and people) to enter the field but it's still no uncommon to sub contract it.

If you have some specific artistic vision that you want to achieve then doing it yourself makes sense.  Sub contracting however can make more business sense.  If you can hire someone for X amount and you could yourself be earning X + n during that same time it's a no brainer.

Thanks, I don't have a problem cropping, straightening, getting the white balance right and other basic things but I have no desire to become a CS6 guru. I purchased Elements 11 today and have been messing around with it all day!

Oct 13 12 08:50 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
fullmetalphotographer
Posts: 2,753
Fresno, California, US


http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3427/3389581398_2cc9f125f1.jpg
GlamShootDemo by FullMetalPhotographer, on Flickr

It all depends on the clients need. There are times when I will give a client just a basic adjustments image like color balance. Then there are other clients who want heavy duty photoshop. Commercial clients tend to be the extreme in terms of both ends of the spectrum while editorial is less. For example it is really rare for me to sharpen work because that really depends on how it is being printed.

Photo editing is worked into my basic fee. Shoot Hrs + Computer (editing + post) + Expenses + Usage = Fee

Images for models it depends on the shoot, if it is a commercial I will give a tear sheet. If it is editorial a tear sheet, and images with same basic adjustments. For a TF situation basic adjustments and maybe one or two image with anything major that I do for self promotion.
Oct 13 12 10:18 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Rock Shots
Posts: 113
Phoenix, Arizona, US


I'd love to find a retoucher...seems some of them, ok most of them, make more money than the photogs do. They need to have a different mid-set then just a good graphics designer who knows how to use photoshop. People are way different than promo-flyers.

retouching can make or break a photo so if you do decide to go that route make sure they have some sense of fashion/model/people aspect to their work. We don't need anymore over photoshopped plastic barbies floating around.  :-)
TB
Oct 13 12 10:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Andrew Thomas Evans
Posts: 24,078
Toulon, Provence-Alpes-Côte-d'Azur, France


Lakeshore Photography wrote:
Basically, I am way too much of a busy body to sit in front of a computer for hours on end smile I'd much rather be outdoors.

Well you're lucky then, that [editing, retouching] only takes up about 1/6th of being a photographer!



Andrew Thomas Evans
www.andrewthomasevans.com

Oct 13 12 10:33 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R80
Posts: 2,567
Marceline, Missouri, US


I do my own editing and retouching and have gotten fairly decent at it.  Waaaay better than my nearby competition who's retouched images sometimes look like someone spit on them.  (Not my comment, from a person that's used both of us.)

If I do TF, I select a few of the best images and tweak them a little.  No way can I afford the time to do all of them.

Now that you're on MM, give it time.  Retouchers will contact you.  If you want one right now, go to the search area in the "browse" section and you'll be able to find one fairly close to you.  Many of them have a page here.
Oct 13 12 10:38 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Basil Fairbanks Studio
Posts: 47
Chicago, Illinois, US


Lakeshore Photography wrote:
I'm just getting into this industry and I'm wondering if photographers are expected to edit their images for the models or if some do and some do not. Basically, I am way too much of a busy body to sit in front of a computer for hours on end smile I'd much rather be outdoors.

If any of you photographers or models have someone you would recommend for retouching or editing I would appreciate it if you could pass along the MM number or send me a message with their contact information if they're not on MM.

Thanks in advance!

After looking over your profile/portfolio, and reading what you posted, i'm a little jealous. I wish I could go back to that time in my career when I was starting out and shooting all the time. I miss that part of my life. It would make being a photographer an even more pleasurable experience. But as you progress through your career, as you start to take on more paid client work, and as another here has already suggested, unless you have the financial means to pay someone to do your editing,  correcting and retouching, etc., sitting "...in front of a computer for hours on end...", can be an unavoidable aspect of the business, depending on how much post-production you actually have to do. Not to forget how clients expect that from a photographer. Currently, I do all of my own post-production and never let the photos go out the door until every image looks as perfect as I can make them. I'm not a master of that yet, but I'm getting there. And now after 20 years of working, and with the competiton for paid work increasing every year,  I'm seriously considering hiring someone to do the tedious part so that, like you, I can get back to just shooting continually. 

As for retouchers here on MM, there are more than enough qualified people who can help you. More than just a few, I suspect, are willing to work with whatever budget you have.

Oct 14 12 12:55 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jay Farrell
Posts: 13,044
Nashville, Tennessee, US


Yes, it's your job, or find a retoucher.
Oct 14 12 09:01 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Right Poes
Posts: 859
Colorado Springs, Colorado, US


I came into this through the back door, as a print shop guy who loved the early years of Corel and Photoshop. Now I get to work on my own stuff, but I can gladly work on others who are willing to hire me as well. In fact I have heard people refer to the post work as monkey work. I have been considering starting a side thing and calling it Monkey Business. I love doing post work.
Oct 14 12 02:21 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
David J Martin
Posts: 458
Amberg, Bavaria, Germany


The better you do at behind the camera at capture, the less you will be required to fix your photography behind a computer.
Oct 14 12 02:33 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Angela Perez
Posts: 340
Orlando, Florida, US


David J Martin wrote:
The better you do at behind the camera at capture, the less you will be required to fix your photography behind a computer.

Complete BS. All high end magazine work is retouched and the photos before post production are pretty on point photography wise.

Oct 14 12 02:38 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Raven Photography
Posts: 2,547
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia


David J Martin wrote:
The better you do at behind the camera at capture, the less you will be required to fix your photography behind a computer.

That does not mean that professional images don't need professional retouching to enhance the results.

To the OP I retouch my own images and am in the middle of retouching some head and shoulder beauty shots.

Oct 14 12 02:46 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Lee Nutter
Posts: 160
Sydney, New South Wales, Australia


I retouch selects. Just a few images per shoot.
Oct 14 12 05:46 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
1001001
Posts: 31
ADAK, Alaska, US


Retouching is absolutely required. No photo worthy of being seen in a serious hobbyists or professional photographer's portfolio should be untouched.

A few things you'll do in retouching are: 1) remove blemishes (pimples, scars, wrinkles, etc., 2) even out skin tones, 3) fix background annoyances, 4) fix clothes, 5) shape the model (thin out, fatten up), 6) color balance, 7) contrast, 8) crop, 9) do you want color or black and white?, 10) your own artistic touches, 11) Etc..........................

Depending on the level of retouching you'll be doing and how many photos you'll be retouching from each shoot, it isn't unreasonable to spend more time retouching than shooting.
Oct 15 12 08:35 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
1001001
Posts: 31
ADAK, Alaska, US


duplicate
Oct 15 12 08:35 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Silver Mirage
Posts: 1,560
Plainview, Texas, US


Virtually every photo can benefit from some computer work. Contrast and color balance are very difficult to get exactly right in camera outside of a well-controlled studio environment. The camera just doesn't see things the way the eye/brain do and it can't know your artistic vision. Sharpening needs to be done according to end use.

Almost every model will need at least a little retouch.

So if you're serious about photography you either do it yourself or find someone to do it for you.
Oct 15 12 08:51 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
PhotoByWayne
Posts: 1,197
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


I think editing/retouching should be part of the overall process to creating your final image.  Even if you don't do it, you have to communicate your vision clearly to the retoucher.
Oct 15 12 09:01 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Alena Hovorkova
Posts: 123
Brno, Jihomoravsky, Czech Republic


Some basic retouching (at least) should be a part of your workflow, imo - when shooting models.
Otherwise (not talking about the licence/usage/permission issues now) the model will always be wishing to have your images retouched - by someone/somewhere else, somehow, probably.
So - if you can do your (basic, at least) retouching yourself, good for you (and good for your models).
If not - then you might probably need to hire a retoucher.

From my (the other/retoucher´s side) experience -
there are many different reasons why photographers do/don´t hire a retoucher -
and anything is possible, basically.

Some (many, actually) photographers do their own retouching, for whatever reason (they either do not want anyone else to ´touch´ their photographs, or don´t want to spend money for retouching, or - just simply enjoy doing their post-work themselves, etc.)
Some photographers hire a retoucher just for some ´special tasks´- either to fix/help with some technical issues that they are not able to do/tackle in Photoshop themselves - or - perhaps - to help/assist with some creative visions to come true ..
Some just do not have time /do not want to spend their time retouching & editing - so they are looking to some long-term closely-cooperating retoucher and let all post-work for him/her to do, while the photographer can concentrate on shooting only ..  (this usually works best when both photographer and retoucher already know each other and know what they both can expect from each other)
Or - some photographers - on the other hand - are activelly looking for someone else´s (retoucher´s/artist´s) creative input - providing images just as a ´starting point´ to a retoucher - to let him/her work in his/her own creative way /vision  ... so as a model (agency etc.) could get something ´special´ in the end ...
etc.

But - whatever your vision/needs are (or whatever workflow may work for you)  -
when approaching a retoucher, it is a good idea to communicate your vision clearly - and - to clearly set the rules - so as both of you know where the limits/expectations are ..  (otherwise the post-work/cooperation may end up in some very ´unexpected creative´ results sometimes, since retouchers also have their own - very different, sometimes - visions  smile )
Oct 16 12 12:28 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Image Magik
Posts: 1,067
New Orleans, Louisiana, US


I say pictures are taken-photographs are made. The re-touch can be as instrumental in the final result as taking the picture if not more. If you don't want to spend lots of time re-touching then sub the hi end work out. For me re-touching is where I finish the vision of the original picture and I quite enjoy it:-)
Oct 16 12 12:43 am  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
PWF Retouch
Posts: 290
Jacksonville, North Carolina, US


I started as a photographer and always retouch work before giving anything to a client. People will look through their images and always find flaws in the worst one. Never give out unfinished work.

My $.02
Oct 16 12 12:43 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ontherocks
Posts: 22,324
Salem, Oregon, US


many of the images around here are heavy on the photoshop. but some prefer a more natural style anyway. if you take the time to get it right in camera (and maybe have a MUA) then you may not need as much photoshop. but for me photoshop is often needed in order to get an image to "pop" and have the finished look that i want. and some models have bad skin and that can be remedied through photoshop.

check out portraiture and portrait professional and perfect portrait. i run almost every image through radlab to see if that can help.

check for retoucher specials in the MM marketplace. i've used them at times for a quick $5 retouch.
Oct 17 12 11:32 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
4point0
Posts: 687
Los Angeles, California, US


What I wouldn't give for an editor. I shoot it and hand it over for them to send me back the best ones to finalize. Ah, to dream. It's just not practical or cost-effective, not for me anyway.
Oct 17 12 12:46 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Abbitt Photography
Posts: 11,437
Oakland Acres, Iowa, US


Lakeshore Photography wrote:
If any of you photographers or models have someone you would recommend for retouching or editing I would appreciate it ...

Retouchers are included in the casting call system.   Alternatively, you can do a search in your area and start contacting retourchers.

Oct 17 12 01:04 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Art of the nude
Posts: 11,864
Olivet, Michigan, US


AJScalzitti wrote:
Well yes a photographer edits images.  That is selected the best, adjust crop, color balance, and that sort of thing.

Retocuhing is another issue and job.  Many here do their own but a lot of working professionals hire it out just like th old days.  Being digital has encouraged more photographers (and people) to enter the field but it's still no uncommon to sub contract it.

If you have some specific artistic vision that you want to achieve then doing it yourself makes sense.  Sub contracting however can make more business sense.  If you can hire someone for X amount and you could yourself be earning X + n during that same time it's a no brainer.

This is pretty thorough, I'd just add that if you use a specific process, like hiring someone, for your portfolio, then you should provide images of that quality to clients, which includes models you do a trade shoot with.

One solution if you don't want to do post work is to pay the models, most of them don't mind that option.

Oct 17 12 02:16 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Art of the nude
Posts: 11,864
Olivet, Michigan, US


David J Martin wrote:
The better you do at behind the camera at capture, the less you will be required to fix your photography behind a computer.
Angela Perez wrote:
Complete BS. All high end magazine work is retouched and the photos before post production are pretty on point photography wise.

I think he's right, BUT, that doesn't mean that there isn't still some, or a LOT, of post work needed for a specific purpose.

But, turn it around, certainly doing a BAD job with the camera isn't going to reduce the amount of post work.

Oct 17 12 02:22 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Art of the nude
Posts: 11,864
Olivet, Michigan, US


Fat Kitty Studios wrote:
What I wouldn't give for an editor. I shoot it and hand it over for them to send me back the best ones to finalize. Ah, to dream. It's just not practical or cost-effective, not for me anyway.

I'd love to be paid to edit, rather than retouch. 

Just send me the files (and money) and tell me what the goals are.  smile

Oct 17 12 02:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Eridu
Posts: 623
Boston, Massachusetts, US


Commercial work demands retouching but your personal projects are left to your own needs and wants.
Oct 17 12 02:30 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
nwprophoto
Posts: 13,911
Kalibo, Western Visayas, Philippines


Lakeshore Photography wrote:
but I have no desire to become a CS6 guru. I purchased Elements 11 today and have been messing around with it all day!

If you are in this to make money you really need to be able to edit or have someone that can.

Lakeshore Photography wrote:
I don't have a problem  getting the white balance right

Might check your monitor calibration, I see color issues with a few of your shots.
Have not checked mine in awhile so maybe its on my end.

Oct 17 12 02:31 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Kristiana-Retouch
Posts: 289
London, England, United Kingdom


I think if you have enough skills and time for retouching you can do it by yourself. When you will have more clients and less time you pretty much have to choose what you want to do for a full time job - retouching or photographing.
Simple editing, though, most of photographers manage to do by themselves or find an assistant.
Oct 18 12 11:54 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
rmsoansphotography
Posts: 261
London, England, United Kingdom


It depends on whether you are able to edit retouch photos.

At the moment since I'm not professional and not earning tonnes of dollars/pounds, I would do it myself, but come to the fact I may need to one day hire someone to retouch photos
Oct 18 12 01:29 pm  Link  Quote 
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