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first123
Photographer
WMcK
Posts: 5,272
Glasgow, Scotland, United Kingdom


SitronStudio wrote:

I remember light meters! I may still have one, somewhere.....

Yes you do, it's in your camera!

Jan 03 13 03:02 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
VecPict
Posts: 27
Bulkeley, Saint George, Barbados


WMcK wrote:

Yes you do, it's in your camera!

I find the meter on some cameras not accurate though

Jan 03 13 03:06 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
coach moon
Posts: 5,522
Pensacola, Florida, US


i shoot mostly outdoors. in florida. light meter is a must. sun knowledge is a must. golden hours are a must. getting out & shooting is a must.

practice practice practice. get to a point where you know what the sun does & when it does it. get to a point where the model is an addition to a photo as opposed to a shot built around the model. get to a point where you are shooting sexy pictures of your coffee cup or a found animal turd. once you hit that point models will line up at sunrise for "some pics they can add to their port."

you don't need your strobes outdoors. fill flash be damned. it's an art not a science & cannot be reduced to mere numbers.
Jan 03 13 03:10 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Glenn Hall - Fine Art
Posts: 431
Townsville, Queensland, Australia


coach moon wrote:
...get to a point where you are shooting sexy pictures of your coffee cup or a found animal turd. once you hit that point models will line up at sunrise for "some pics they can add to their port."

So true is that.
Reminds me of the times I sent a few newbies off into the bathroom with camera in hand and firm instruction not to leave until they have captured the perfect shot.

Jan 03 13 04:25 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ArtisticGlamour
Posts: 3,846
Phoenix, Arizona, US


coach moon wrote:
~it's an art not a science & cannot be reduced to mere numbers.

Except for me, it's f2.0@1/160. wink But, sometimes it takes a ND filter and a Polarizer to get there. LOL!

Jan 03 13 04:30 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jerry Nemeth
Posts: 27,421
Dearborn, Michigan, US


Loki Studio wrote:
Be careful not to overwhelm us with helpful and educational information.

I just went out and did it without being educated.  Ken Marcus said basically the same thing.  Go out and do it and learn from your mistakes.  I found out that I would get better images using flash.

Jan 03 13 04:35 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
fullmetalphotographer
Posts: 2,754
Fresno, California, US


I have always preferred shooting in different places and environments the studio has always been a little confining to me. Which is one of the reasons I went into photojournalism.

Basically you are using the environment around you, The different textures contrasts that you really can't create in just a studio environment. The natural ambient light itself has unique, quality to it that it will lead to unique opportunities.

I would suggest before starting with portraits take your camera and just go outside and take photos around your town. Get used to seeing the light and looking at how the light falls and the different textures it creates. Have some fun. Then think about portraits and working with the light around you.



http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2610/3748163949_39917bc730.jpg
glam2_127 by FullMetalPhotographer, on Flickr


http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8351/8323733660_3ae74b3711.jpg
glam2_065 by FullMetalPhotographer, on Flickr

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2282/2322657383_962ff5ed73.jpg
fmpglam02 by FullMetalPhotographer, on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8496/8323732184_9cbf82e024.jpg
glam2_190 by FullMetalPhotographer, on Flickr

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3315/3474947585_a939099dab.jpg
JillSharp04 by FullMetalPhotographer, on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8067/8265912496_06d36a6671.jpg
EmilyJoDerderian37101809 by FullMetalPhotographer, on Flickr
Jan 03 13 05:38 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Kaouthia
Posts: 3,152
Lancaster, England, United Kingdom


coach moon wrote:
you don't need your strobes outdoors.

You don't, he might.

I don't need 'em, but I want 'em. smile

Jan 03 13 05:45 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jerry Nemeth
Posts: 27,421
Dearborn, Michigan, US


coach moon wrote:
i shoot mostly outdoors. in florida. light meter is a must. sun knowledge is a must. golden hours are a must. getting out
Jan 03 13 06:14 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Herman van Gestel
Posts: 2,149
Amsterdam, Noord-Holland, Netherlands


lol...it's the same technique as in the studio, measure your highlight, measure your shadows..... why would you need a monitor?? people have been shooting for over 100 year without lcd-screen :p

or start without strobes just with reflection screen....


enjoy wink
http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/110615/07/4df8c49d2ae5f_m.jpg

H.
Jan 03 13 06:19 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Drew Smith Photography
Posts: 5,209
Nottingham, England, United Kingdom


coach moon wrote:
i shoot mostly outdoors. in florida. light meter is a must. sun knowledge is a must. golden hours are a must. getting out & shooting is a must. .. snip...

I read this and had an epiphany - of course, my outdoor photography skill set needed 'sun knowledge'.

I did some research and found this. I plan to shoot outdoors this weekend bearing this in mind:

The sun is a huge, glowing sphere of hot gas. Most of this gas is hydrogen (about 70%) and helium (about 28%). Carbon, nitrogen and oxygen make up 1.5% and the other 0.5% is made up of small amounts of many other elements such as neon, iron, silicon, magnesium and sulfur. The sun shines because it is burning hydrogen into helium in its extremely hot core. This means that as time goes on, the sun has less hydrogen and more helium.

The sun is very hot - don't get too close to it.

Jan 03 13 06:22 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Caradoc
Posts: 19,622
Scottsdale, Arizona, US


SitronStudio wrote:
I've never heard the term "chimping", and you guys keep using it. I figured it was british slang. Turns out it means checking the monitor after every shot. Wow.

Not quite.

"Chimping" means checking the monitor and going "Ooo! OOOOH!" at every shot.

Jan 03 13 06:27 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Farenell Photography
Posts: 17,954
Albany, New York, US


SitronStudio wrote:
My New Years resolution- figure out how to shoot outdoors. I've been strictly a studio photographer for a number of years, I love strobes, I love backdrops, I love everything about the studio. But it's time for a change. It's not for lack of trying, though. Since I moved to Florida a few years ago, I try to do some outdoor shots at every shoot for more variety. Even the models agree I should stay in the studio. I hate that I can't see my monitor in the sun, I hate relying on the weather, but I love a lot of shots done outside with natural light. I use an  Olympus FL-40 flash, with a bunch of different diffusers, but nothing leaves me satisfied. Give me some hints, please! Should I just set up my strobes outside?

Tip #1 when shooting outdoors...get comfortable relinquishing ANY control you have of your shoot & develop the ability to think on your toes.

This can mean the "wrong" weather like you wanting sunny light & getting overcast (or vice versa) which I get all the time. Or literally seeing the cool location you were going to use go up in flames (which I've seen happen to make way for a new Wal-Mart). Or random strangers not getting the hint that its time to move on (had a St Paddy's Day drunk want to watch the entire shoot & was going to til I promised him I'd "send" him the pictures if he emailed me [I gave him my card]). Or being questioned by the cops. Or being interrupted by an elderly man who's just in much of a shock seeing a naked girl where he's not expecting one as much as the naked girl is in shock being surprised by the elderly man.


Tip #2 when shooting outdoors...observe the effects that light gives you during ALL hours of the day & the kind of condition it is & then shoot it. The more you practice w/ nonliving things & the more you understand those effects, the less time you'll be wasting when you use the model.


Tip #3 when shooting outdoors...when an opportunity strikes, jump on it. Lightening practically never strikes the same place twice.


Tip #4 when shooting outdoors...pay attention to interesting shadows. They can be as useful, if not more, than your light is.

Jan 03 13 06:38 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Fotografica Gregor
Posts: 4,071
Alexandria, Virginia, US


SitronStudio wrote:

I remember light meters! I may still have one, somewhere.....

How do you set lighting ratios in studio without a meter?   I mean if you're just shooting very simple shots that say do not require a 1.5 stop falloff to the background or a 1/3rd stop falloff in the shadows on a beauty shot or you don't care about contrast ratios and just take what you get,  I can see just winging it -     but I could never do what I do without extensive metering......

Jan 03 13 06:44 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Shades Of Gray
Posts: 1,052
Colorado Springs, Colorado, US


HungryEye wrote:
Shooting in natural light has it's own special appeal, though you are subject to the variations of weather and cloud cover.
Reflectors are a big help, and I use an app that shows me the relative position of the sun at various times of the day, so I can plan ahead.

Portable flash rigs can be used, though I go old school. I have 2 Vivitar 285's with wireless triggers and small diffusers that can do a remarkable job in simulating studio light in the outdoors.
In this instance, a good light/flash meter is your friend.

Those old Vivitar 285s are awesome, super fast and cheap too.  VERY IMPORTANT to never sync one directly to a modern camera though, use slaves or something else as the can fry the electronics in some cameras.  And it's worth the effort to find models that will shoot at sunrise or sunset.  The light is magical! It can't be beat.  There is just something about the angle and temperature of light at that time of day when it drops to 3500ish degrees Kelvin.

Jan 03 13 06:59 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SitronStudio
Posts: 1,058
Venice, Florida, US


Fotografica Gregor wrote:

How do you set lighting ratios in studio without a meter?   I mean if you're just shooting very simple shots that say do not require a 1.5 stop falloff to the background or a 1/3rd stop falloff in the shadows on a beauty shot or you don't care about contrast ratios and just take what you get,  I can see just winging it -     but I could never do what I do without extensive metering......

I do use a meter in the studio sometimes, but I've gotten so used to my lights sometimes I don't need to. I just fine tune with the LCD screen.

Jan 03 13 12:01 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
liddellphoto
Posts: 1,800
London, England, United Kingdom


Lighting on location is really not all that different to a studio you just have less control.

An overcast day is a giant diffusion panel overhead
Direct sun is a bare bulb flash
A window without direct sun is a softbox
A dark wall is like a black v-flat
A white wall is like a white reflector
A gap in some trees is like a big softbox
etc.

Look at the world in studio lighting terms and it gets easier. A good way to do this is to look at the light on people as you go about day-to-day life in different weather and times of day.
Jan 03 13 02:48 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Erik Ballew
Posts: 714
Westminster, Colorado, US


I just expose for the back ground then, use a speed light to make the model mach in the exposure, oh and I like to use the sun as a backlight/hairlight

http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/120326/10/4f70a0af59ca9.jpg

http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/121020/19/5083631ce36f1.jpg
Jan 03 13 02:58 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Joey
Posts: 452
Orange, California, US


You're over thinking this outdoors shoot. The sun is your main light source. Now think about how you can control it.😉
Jan 03 13 05:38 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
FBY1K
Posts: 902
Kaiserslautern, Rhineland-Palatinate, Germany


Robert Helm wrote:
Indoors or out , composition is the same, same for exposure.

The things that are different are that:
You cannot move the main light
The backgrounds are 3D and real
You always have a foreground
You do not have to worry about the size of your studio.
Helps to check the weather report and sunrise/sunset/tide tables.
Light control is different, but still doable.
Pick your Background first and watch for distraction in the BG.

My recomendation is to get a couple of good models you have worked with and set up some time for outdoor shoots in different locations and apply what you know to the new settings. Take your time to think it out and have specific goals for what you want from each shoot, i.e. Exposure, lighting, use of the area etc.

Make your weakness your strength.

+1

FBY1K

Jan 04 13 04:00 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Kaouthia
Posts: 3,152
Lancaster, England, United Kingdom


Joey wrote:
You're over thinking this outdoors shoot. The sun is your main light source. Now think about how you can control it.😉

Or it's your rim/hair light, or it's your background light and your subject's in shade, or it's in the shot behind your silhouetted subject.

There are many ways to use sunlight other than just having your subject squinting into it.

Jan 04 13 06:12 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
The F-Stop
Posts: 1,469
New York, New York, US


SitronStudio wrote:

but your profile says "very experienced"...

I'm "very experienced"... at shooting in the studio.

Here is a learning curve form studio controlled envirnment to outdoors shooting. You'll find it;s fun and much more chalenging.. you do ahve a meter built into your digital.. use that?

Shooting film OTOH is a bit more of a learning curve because you're now dealing with varried situations on one roll. I shoot an RB67 so I only get 10 frames per roll n I try to keep one situation per roll. So when I compensate develoment I have more control over my images in the one situation.. and I do use a hand held spot meter for film.

Yes absolutely... "very experianced" in the studio is much different than in the field.. we are all brohers n should share our experiances to help one another.

To break shadow use an external flash set -1.5 stops to fill.. use a reflector if you have an assitant or on a tripod or stand. I like to play with light n use it to my advantage.

All fun!

Jan 04 13 06:32 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ArtisticGlamour
Posts: 3,846
Phoenix, Arizona, US


As a studio shooter I assume you have a pretty good handle on using the sun just like a direct light or a sidelight, so the tricky part for you is probably shooting into the sun or a bright sunlit background, and achieving "balance" (some call it "overpowering the sun")...thus,

Erik Ballew wrote:
I just expose for the back ground then, use a speed light to make the model match in the exposure, oh and I like to use the sun as a backlight/hairlight

http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/120326/10/4f70a0af59ca9_m.jpg
Nice shot Eric, great balance and beautiful model!

I use the same basic technique to not blowout bright backgrounds:

ArtisticGlamour wrote:
Shoot on Manual, with a Manual speedlight(s) off camera.

1.) Set exposure for the background. Model doesn't even need to be in the picture at this point. Maybe set the f-stop around 2.0 (for good bokeh) and then adjust the shutter speed up around the manual sync speed (1/125-1/200ish). If its a super BRIGHT background (like directly into the sun) use a Neutral Density filter (and/or Circular Polarizer filter) to bring it down into this (around f2.0@
Jan 04 13 06:39 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Brian Fischer
Posts: 612
San Luis Obispo, California, US


Shane Noir wrote:
... Have you tried not using the flashes/etc and just rely on natural light (and maybe a reflector for fill)?

+1

Jan 04 13 07:16 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Richard Klein Photo
Posts: 174
Buffalo Grove, Illinois, US


Back in the Palaeothic Age, when I shot film with my RB 67s, I would take portraits a few minutes after sunrise.  I would have the subjects climb up into a crook found in the lower branches of a tree.  The rising sun would illuminate their hair and shoulders from behind with a golden radiance.  Their faces would be in deep shade due to the branches and leaves from the tree.  I would set up a 285 on either 1/16 or 1/4 power depending on how much fill light I wanted.  Using a Quantum Radio Trigger II, I could easily move the remote light to any spot I wished.  The film was VPS  or Vericolor III rated at 100 ASA. I liked to use a 180mm lens set at 1/60 f5.6 for most of my shoots.  I also liked to use the 127mm set the same.  I used a Luna Pro in incident mode to set the shutter speed for the available light.  Usually it would read 1/60 to 1/8.  I never worried about the rim lighting created by the backlit sun.  To really enhance the shots, I would use a Sailwind Prosoft diffusion filter over a Singhray UV filter.  I can't show you any of the resulting images I took over the years, but please believe me that they were just wonderful.  That basic setup always worked well with backlit or shade conditions outside.  I learned that technique via practice without subjects and using Polaroid film with the RB Polaroid back.  Shooting outdoors need not be a challenge if a lensman learns how to light a scene before the talent steps in front of the camera.  Knowing your technique allows you to concentrate on the subjects and put aside technical worries.  Just my $.02 worth.
Jan 04 13 08:30 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Smedley Whiplash
Posts: 17,297
Billings, Montana, US


PhillipM wrote:
Learn how to meter, and you won't have to chimp...

smile

You still have to chimp... even with a meter. What I chimp at is the flashing highlight warning, and why  i do it is because highlights have different reflectivity, based on whatever the highlight is on (hair, white fabric, skin, sky) and the angle the light strikes it. They're all different.

It's a fast way to see if the number of pixels affected is acceptable, and where they are located.

The reason we have monitors on the back is... ya know... to "monitor" stuff.  lol

Jan 04 13 12:48 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ArtisticGlamour
Posts: 3,846
Phoenix, Arizona, US


Richard Klein Photo wrote:
Back in the Palaeothic Age, when I shot film with my RB 67s, I would take portraits a few minutes after sunrise.  I would have the subjects climb up into a crook found in the lower branches of a tree.  The rising sun would illuminate their hair and shoulders from behind with a golden radiance.  Their faces would be in deep shade due to the branches and leaves from the tree.  I would set up a 285 on either 1/16 or 1/4 power depending on how much fill light I wanted.  Using a Quantum Radio Trigger II, I could easily move the remote light to any spot I wished.  The film was VPS  or Vericolor III rated at 100 ASA. I liked to use a 180mm lens set at 1/60 f5.6 for most of my shoots.  I also liked to use the 127mm set the same.  I used a Luna Pro in incident mode to set the shutter speed for the available light.  Usually it would read 1/60 to 1/8.  I never worried about the rim lighting created by the backlit sun.  To really enhance the shots, I would use a Sailwind Prosoft diffusion filter over a Singhray UV filter.  I can't show you any of the resulting images I took over the years, but please believe me that they were just wonderful.

Nice! (Exactly!)

Shooting outdoors need not be a challenge if a lensman learns how to light a scene before the talent steps in front of the camera.  Knowing your technique allows you to concentrate on the subjects and put aside technical worries.

This.

http://strobist.blogspot.com/2006/03/li … -with.html

Jan 04 13 01:12 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
coach moon
Posts: 5,522
Pensacola, Florida, US


Drew Smith Photography wrote:

coach moon wrote:
i shoot mostly outdoors. in florida. light meter is a must. sun knowledge is a must. golden hours are a must. getting out & shooting is a must. .. snip...

I read this and had an epiphany - of course, my outdoor photography skill set needed 'sun knowledge'.

I did some research and found this. I plan to shoot outdoors this weekend bearing this in mind:

The sun is a huge, glowing sphere of hot gas. Most of this gas is hydrogen (about 70%) and helium (about 28%). Carbon, nitrogen and oxygen make up 1.5% and the other 0.5% is made up of small amounts of many other elements such as neon, iron, silicon, magnesium and sulfur. The sun shines because it is burning hydrogen into helium in its extremely hot core. This means that as time goes on, the sun has less hydrogen and more helium.

The sun is very hot - don't get too close to it.

thanks drew. your insight coupled with your ability to use google is very helpful.

Kaouthia wrote:

You don't, he might.

I don't need 'em, but I want 'em. smile

i originally shot outdoors with a fill flash. i found it cut the effects of the sun [or it cut it for what i wanted to shoot...] i'm better able to shoot shots like these without a fill flash or strobes.

http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/120924/02/506026b2d519e_m.jpg

http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/120623/17/4fe65c636fb8f_m.jpg

http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/110927/13/4e822ce888db8_m.jpg

http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/110902/02/4e60a87c4fc71_m.jpg

http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/100403/21/4bb811217200f_m.jpg

Jan 05 13 02:03 am  Link  Quote 
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