Lanna_ wrote:
An observation this industry:

I have NEVER been contacted by any booker/agency to tell me that I didn't get a casting.  We don't get personally told "No, the client didn't pick you for this project." Models go to castings and won't hear anything back unless they've been booked/get put on hold. 

So I guess agencies are the rudest, most unprofessional people in the world?

No. It's just how things work.

Do I get disappointed if I don't get a great casting?  To some extent.  Do I get all offended that the agency was "so rude/lazy and unprofessional they couldn't even take 3 seconds to tell me no?"  Of course not. 

So to all the photographers complaining about how "unprofessional" it is to not hear back, I suggest observing the working industry. 

Perhaps the photographer-agency/client interaction is different, but this is how it is from the model standpoint.  No response is a response.

That's fine for you, but surely effective communication takes account of who you are communicating with. It's no use taking the 'no reply is a reply' as something commonly accepted when, in this arena, it plainly isn't.
Photographers seem to be mostly amateurs, so their professional life will lie elsewhere. In that professional life the code will often be: 'no reply = you are a rude, inconsiderate individual who does not deserve my business".
It is understandable that they will bring that ethos (if that's the right word) with them when they come on here.

What makes you think they will be inclined to change their stance to accommodate your's? There may be this 'industry' out there somewhere, but as they are not operating in it, what's it got to do with them?

Tim Griffiths wrote:

That's fine for you, but surely effective communication takes account of who you are communicating with. It's no use taking the 'no reply is a reply' as something commonly accepted when, in this arena, it plainly isn't.
Photographers seem to be mostly amateurs, so their professional life will lie elsewhere. In that professional life the code will often be: 'no reply = you are a rude, inconsiderate individual who does not deserve my business".
It is understandable that they will bring that ethos (if that's the right word) with them when they come on here.

What makes you think they will be inclined to change their stance to accommodate your's? There may be this 'industry' out there somewhere, but as they are not operating in it, what's it got to do with them?

It actually is.  In fact, not responding at all is probably the clearest way to say no that exists on the internet.  As someone else pointed out in this thread, a spoken (or rather, a typed) no is often taken as an opportunity to talk them into it.  And I still don't get why it matters.  Whether they respond with a "no" or just say nothing at all, the result is the same, you won't be working with them.

MelissaAnn  wrote:
I respond to my messages about 75% of the time, but I must admit that I don't respond to everyone.

Not getting a response doesn't seem to bother some people, but others are bewildered, hurt, or even angry when they don't receive a response to a message they sent.  Everyone has different feelings on this subject, and I'm certainly not going to say anyone's particular feelings are right or wrong.  Honestly, I understand people who don't respond, as well as those who always respond, and all the folks in between.  My hope is that we can perhaps shed some light on the reasons WHY models don't respond, and hopefully this will help the senders of these un-responded-to-messages realize that 1.) it's nothing personal, or that 2.) perhaps there are changes they can make to increase their odds of receiving a response in the future. 

Below I have included two different lists of why I personally don't respond to messages sometimes. The first list includes reasons why I may not respond to an initial message, and the second list includes reasons why I may stop responding after I have begun a dialogue with someone.  I encourage other models to post their reasons here so we can add to this list and use it as a reference.


REASONS WHY A MODEL MAY NOT RESPOND TO AN INITIAL MESSAGE:

1.)  The message isn't specific-doesn't mention if the shoot will be paid or TF.

2.) The offer is insulting.

3.) The original message is more than a couple paragraphs long.  I love specifics, but there's just no need for people to tell their life story in the initial message- it can be very off-putting.

4.) The photographer sending the message doesn't have any MM models credited in their port, and no "credited" photos I can look at.  I like to check references from random models of my choice, not have the photographer only giving me names of ones they want me checking with.

5.)  The senders portfolio hasn't been updated in more than a year, no "credited" photos, and no link to outside work on their profile.

6.)  I get a bad gut feeling, or the sender seems like a complete jackass/delusional- this can include unrealistic demands on profile, excessive bragging (which usually points to extreme insecurity), members of MM for years with few or no friends or tags on profile (they seem to be generally inactive), people that go to great lengths to try and convince me what a "nice guy" they are, anyone that seems overbearing, like they might be drama to deal with.

7.)  The message doesn't ask for a response.  Messages like, "get in touch if you ever want to work with me" or "let me know when you're in my city" etc.

8.) The photographer includes details about their appearance. Example: "I'm a 28-year-old fashion photographer with blond hair and a good build."  This sends the message that they're looking for something other than a shoot.

9.)  I just plain forget.  When I'm traveling, sometimes I'll open a message and won't have the time to adequately respond. From the time I open that message, I get tons of others, the message gets buried pages back in my inbox, I get busy, and I forget to go back far enough to find it again and respond.  There's no excuse for this, but it does occasionally happen.


REASONS WHY A MODEL MAY STOP RESPONDING:

1.)  The sender is clearly not reading my responses and doesn't answer questions.

2.)  Several weeks or a month elapse between more than a few messages (ie: we've been corresponding for 3 months, and still haven't set up a shoot).

3.) Sender refuses to provide their real name, or any contact info.

4.) Sender becomes creepy (ie: say things like "well I'll be paying, so you'll do what I say").

5.)  Sender "failed" the reference check.  For me, this usually means that more than one reputable model had significant negative things to say about them.

I'm so glad you posted this.

The only other addition I'd mention is:

- If a photographer is offering TFP and the quality or style of his/her work doesn't match or isn't up to the standard already featured in my port.

That can be a really awkward conversation to have and sometimes I'd just prefer not to have it.

I usually respond with something about being too busy or a similar excuse because I think the above can be very hurtful and that's never my intention.

MelissaAnn  wrote:
9.)  I just plain forget.  When I'm traveling, sometimes I'll open a message and won't have the time to adequately respond. From the time I open that message, I get tons of others, the message gets buried pages back in my inbox, I get busy, and I forget to go back far enough to find it again and respond.  There's no excuse for this, but it does occasionally happen.

That's usually a costly mistake on behalf of the recipient.  If I send out a paid assignment opportunity and don't get a response within 5 days... it's NEXT and you're losing money to another model... and you're right... there IS NO EXCUSE for this...

4 R D wrote:
The problem with whether not answering is rude or not is that it depends greatly of how the original message is written and how it commands that potential response. Certain cultural differences about manners are also a factor.

Who acts rudely first? Sometimes it the one who starts communication and sometimes it is the one who stops it without a proper resolution. When one of the parties is not interested in shooting, a conflict is born and it needs to be resolved somehow whether we like it or not. My impression is that female models tend to be avoidant while male photographers tend to be confrontative. I think both attitudes towards the issue only escalate the conflict.

If more models responded with a "Thank you, but I am not interested in this project" and more photographers responded to that with a "Thanks for your response, good luck", we would have less threads like this one and we would have more shoots actually happening.

Too bad that for some people this is a way to arm-wrestle the ego.

+1

In Balance Photography wrote:

I think the erroneous thinking here is that by virtue of being a photographer one automatically has a professional relationship with a model.

I don't consider it rude to not to reply to junk mail, or calls from recruiters, or calls from telemarketers. That's because there's no relationship between them and I.

..and when a model doesn't respond to an offer, it could be very well because they think it the equivalent of junk mail. I know that can sting, but that's the reality.

100% agree

Lanna_ wrote:
An observation this industry:

I have NEVER been contacted by any booker/agency to tell me that I didn't get a casting.  We don't get personally told "No, the client didn't pick you for this project." llamas go to castings and won't hear anything back unless they've been booked/get put on hold. 

So I guess agencies are the rudest, most unprofessional people in the world?

No. It's just how things work.

Do I get disappointed if I don't get a great casting?  To some extent.  Do I get all offended that the agency was "so rude/lazy and unprofessional they couldn't even take 3 seconds to tell me no?"  Of course not. 

So to all the photographers complaining about how "unprofessional" it is to not hear back, I suggest observing the working industry. 

Perhaps the photographer-agency/client interaction is different, but this is how it is from the llama standpoint.  No response is a response.

oh really? I have totally opposite experiences. My agencies get back to me after castings, or if I have an option that I didn't get after all, they'll let me know. They'll also inform with the client after a job if everything went okay, and let me know.

But I don't find that comparable to how llamamayhem works, agencies are agencies and mayhem is mayhem .