Designit - Edward Olson wrote:
You don't. You "edit" your post to remove any mention of the particular model before you get knocked for "outing" someone.

Then you grow up.

Ok done that..

Still quite cross though, as there wasn't even a hint of an I'm sorry I'm ill or other excuse..
Yes I know it's happened to everyone, I just wanted to see if I could leave a neg feed back on here..

intense_puppy wrote:
You can't. Best you can do is put a "do not recommend" on your profile.
Also - delete this thread before the mods do it for you (this thread constitutes "outing" I think and is not allowed).

Unless MM has changed their policy, the thread alone does not constitute an "outing". What would make it an "outing" is if the OP named names publicly here in the forums.

KOLMANS STUDIOS wrote:
Lesson to learn.Always make sure you have a plan B,when it comes to models and where you must book and pay upfront,lets say,like now,in your case,the studio.

Yes if only there was a plan B, fortunately this has only happened to me twice in three years of being on this site.
I think its about time the site had this function, most other sites do. And it works because I've not had a flake from Purple Port, its a shame because I shoot more fashion (as a level) and this site is better for fashion type models..

Anyway I'm not bitchin and moaning, shit happens, I just wanted to find out if I could leave neg feedback. Thanks for your answers

Neil Snape wrote:
Very strange but MM rules do not allow it.

for good reason..
I usually agree with everything i see you post, except for now...

1. Think about the culture of this community: Amateurs, typically bitching about other  amateurs, for behaving like amateurs...

2. Who is going to administer/oversee a "he said/she said" function of this website? it's ripe for abuse.

besides, there's nothing that, makes you look more insignificant or amateurish, then complaining publicly that some internet model disrespected you...

Farenell Photography wrote:

Unless MM has changed their policy, the thread alone does not constitute an "outing". What would make it an "outing" is if the OP named names publicly here in the forums.

If I'm reading this thread correctly, I think in the OP the poster linked or named the model.  Then, after a few posters commented on not doing so, they edited the post removing her name/port.

S W I N S K E Y wrote:
besides, there's nothing that, makes you look more insignificant or amateurish, then complaining publicly that some internet model disrespected you...

I think in this case he and many others have the right to complain. If i lay out cash for someone else and they don't come through, I'm going to complain too.

S W I N S K E Y wrote:
besides, there's nothing that, makes you look more insignificant or amateurish, then complaining publicly that some internet model disrespected you...

This case goes beyond disrespect, though. The OP is left holding the bill for a studio he booked and could not use, so there is a financial cost involved.

S W I N S K E Y wrote:
besides, there's nothing that, makes you look more insignificant or amateurish, then complaining publicly that some internet model disrespected you...

GoldRoseMedia wrote:
This case goes beyond disrespect, though. The OP is left holding the bill for a studio he booked and could not use, so there is a financial cost involved.

I think this says more about the OP then it does about a flake internet model.
expecting an amateur online model, to act like professional model is an exercise in futility.

not having a viable plan B, when you outlay cash, is just silly.

a wasted day and wasted cash is not the models fault, it's the photographer's.

S W I N S K E Y wrote:
I think this says more about the OP then it does about a flake internet model.
expecting an amateur online model, to act like professional model is an exercise in futility.

not having a viable plan B, when you outlay cash, is just silly.

a wasted day and wasted cash is not the models fault, it's the photographer's.

Interesting take on the situation but is it really that unreasonable to expect people to do what they say they're going to do that we have to go through life with a plan B?

When I call a meeting with a client, they show up
When a client calls me for a job, I show up
When you have a flight scheduled, you show up
When you have to be to work at 9am, you show up
You have a hair appointment, you show up
You have a dentist appointment, you show up
Why the hell is photography so much different that people just blow it off without regard for the others involved. And why should we, as photographers have to "expect" that to the point where we need a backup plan

The model not showing up is her fault. The photographer taking a chance with his money I guess is a lesson learned but if he didn't spend the cash then the should could never happen.

I guess the thing to do is to get a signed contract stating that if they don't show they're 100% liable for any and all expenditures that were spent on their behalf. Talk to lawyers, make a iron clad contract and don't' spend a dime without it being signed.

Aaron Lewis Photography wrote:
...
I guess the thing to do is to get a signed contract stating that if they don't show they're 100% liable for any and all expenditures that were spent on their behalf. Talk to lawyers, make a iron clad contract and don't' spend a dime without it being signed.

Or the other thing to do, once you sit back and process it, is to grow up. I had to do this too.

I had to do this after showing up on time, ready, dressed and made up and opening my schedule to be at a shoot and doing the shoot and not receiving a single shot!!.

This happened 2x with a photographer who I'd shot with twice before and two other times with different photographers. The photographer who I shot with a total of four times and only received one photo each from our first two shoots said his life was getting really busy and also...I realized that he was pretty selfish with his trade shoots and hadn't given pictures to another model I know too! One other photographer was new and really just busy and the last one...just a jerk.

Lesson learned...griping or processing and venting is one thing but, when you get good advice to get over it and learn that it is a risk and to get better at who you select to share your time with then it is adult to move on.
Jen

S W I N S K E Y wrote:
besides, there's nothing that, makes you look more insignificant or amateurish, then complaining publicly that some internet model disrespected you...

+1 Just move on

if its an important job, project, or creative I use an agency model;  Simple as that and no problems

KonstantKarma wrote:
Sucks.

If I'm doing something that puts me out - Not going to work, travelling, putting up money, meeting somewhere - I make it super clear that I'm doing that and confirm, reconfirm and reconfirm that the model is going to be there. I explain it's very important because (I booked a place and paid for it). Then I ALSO explain that I understand life happens, and if you have to cancel because something comes up that's okay - But I need to know, it's only respectful.

I don't book/rent/travel or do anything extensive for amateur models, only professional ones.  If I were doing so for an amateur or non-fulltime model, I would probably schedule two to be on the safe side.

Sounds like we think very similar!

GoldRoseMedia wrote:

This case goes beyond disrespect, though. The OP is left holding the bill for a studio he booked and could not use, so there is a financial cost involved.

The OP has a commercial studio of his own - I guess there must have been something special about the intended shoot if he had to book a competing studio.

Aaron Lewis Photography wrote:
Interesting take on the situation but is it really that unreasonable to expect people to do what they say they're going to do that we have to go through life with a plan B?

Doing business on MM is a lot like doing business on an elementary school playground.
that's why i don't conduct business here. (the spaces between the letters in my name is more about hiding, then being cool).

If you have an important job, deal with professionals, in professional environments.
MM doesn't even resemble, not one little bit, a professional environment.

if your "plan A" includes MM, you most definitely need a "plan B".

Aaron Lewis Photography wrote:

Interesting take on the situation but is it really that unreasonable to expect people to do what they say they're going to do that we have to go through life with a plan B?

When I call a meeting with a client, they show up
When a client calls me for a job, I show up
When you have a flight scheduled, you show up
When you have to be to work at 9am, you show up
You have a hair appointment, you show up
You have a dentist appointment, you show up
Why the hell is photography so much different that people just blow it off without regard for the others involved. And why should we, as photographers have to "expect" that to the point where we need a backup plan

The model not showing up is her fault. The photographer taking a chance with his money I guess is a lesson learned but if he didn't spend the cash then the should could never happen.

I guess the thing to do is to get a signed contract stating that if they don't show they're 100% liable for any and all expenditures that were spent on their behalf. Talk to lawyers, make a iron clad contract and don't' spend a dime without it being signed.

There was a day when a handshake and a mans word were plausible for agreements, contracts and the like and ones reputation and or integrity was preceded by his dealings. In the age of the internet and online networking those days are long gone mostly because it's not a personal experience where two people are face to face.

Is there a remedy for flakes where one has expense like studio rental, attire or time, certainly, it's called an alternative or backup plan. Getting a beginner model to agree to be held legally liable for expenses if they don't show or flake, probably not a good idea but to each their own, give it a try and see where it goes. Good luck.

Sand Angel Photography wrote:
I don't think you will get anyone here to do the whole deposit thing. Just what I've observed after being here a while. Which is why I don't bother with it.

But I also keep in mind that there is no way I will be hiring people from here without having worked with them before and knowing that they are reliable.

This is a unique environment with plenty of pros and cons to how it works. In general I find it to be more fun than not so I roll with it.

Good attitude and I have to say, unfortunately I agree. I've only ever been to the point of scheduling with one MM model who backed out before we ever got it on the calendar.

Hopefully the others I'm planning to work with don't end up the same way.

S W I N S K E Y wrote:

Doing business on MM is a lot like doing business on an elementary school playground.
that's why i don't conduct business here. (the spaces between the letters in my name is more about hiding, then being cool).

If you have an important job, deal with professionals, in professional environments.
MM doesn't even resemble, not one little bit, a professional environment.

if your "plan A" includes MM, you most definitely need a "plan B".

Don't you think that's kind of disrespectful to a lot of models (never mind anybody else) that are on MM, who's sole income is generated from modelling, that act professionally, always turn up, on time and ready to shoot?

OP - go read all the other threads on 'Flaking', folks here are only repeating what's been stated a thousand and one times before.

Drew Smith Photography wrote:
Don't you think that's kind of disrespectful to a lot of models (never mind anybody else) that are on MM, who's sole income is generated from modelling, that act professionally, always turn up, on time and ready to shoot?

There are a TON of very professional people here. Everyone is here for different reasons. However, the user id's are now over 2,900,000 so there are a ton of people who aren't doing much. Weeding through to find the real people can be a bit challenging. I would think one would have better luck hiring someone cold from an agency if they needed someone urgently. But there are a lot of really cool people here so the work to find them is worth it.