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first12
Photographer
Shot By Adam
Posts: 5,764
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


-B-R-U-N-E-S-C-I- wrote:
Meet-ups are a waste of everybody's time.

Work with reliable people and check references if you're not sure.

If you're spending money on a shoot, go through an agency and they will ensure you have a model on the day. If you're just testing, keep costs to a minimum and have an alternative plan - eg. catching up on retouching - in case the model doesn't turn up.

Depends on the shoot. I just did a big cosplay shoot for a magazine which involved two models, a hair stylist, MUA, propmaster, and a costume designer. I absolutely found it necessary to have a pre-shoot meeting so everyone was on the same page and so that we could brainstorm ideas. Doing all that the day of the shoot would have resulted in a complete clusterfuck and we never would have gotten the results that we got.

For something like simple headshots, I would agree with you, but for larger production shoots a pre-shoot meeting is mandatory for me.

Feb 01 13 06:04 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
BlueMoonPics
Posts: 4,343
New York, New York, US


I only offer to do a meeting if I feel it will help otherwise I don't usually offer to do a meet.  Recently, I did have a meet with someone in my neighborhood.  I offered and she agreed.  There was also a model that asked to meet me first to discuss ideas.  That was quite shocking for me as models don't normally ask to meet the photographer but I was happy to do so and agreed.

Normally, I just set up a date, time and place, usually public, and we shoot there.  I try to get as many ideas from them as possible on the type of images they want before the actual shoot.  I have my own shoot ideas that I want to achieve.  These are mostly TF shoots to enhance each others portfolios.

One thing I did learn early on in dealing with models on MM is that they love to text.  So I upgraded my phone so I could text easily.  I was lucky in that I didn't have to pay more for the upgrade than I was already paying for a simple cell phone.
Feb 01 13 06:36 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
JOEL McDONALD
Posts: 608
Portland, Oregon, US


Loki Studio wrote:
Joel-  I also think that planing meetings are essential to success. I need to confirm the look, reliability, concepts, and agreement to all terms before I commit my time, stylists, and other expenses.  It all needs to work to make sure that it will clearly benefit my portfolio/business.  The right clothing is so essential to good photos that I need to make sure its available or needs to be obtained for the shoot.

A bad or missed 15 minute planning meeting is much better than a wasted 4 hour shoot.  Commercial clients get the same treatment to make sure we hit a home run every time.

-Scott

Thanks. That's where I'm coming from. I just like to have my ducks in a row before I commit hours of my, and the model's time (plus, a MUAH, and staff).

But then if it's just an informal shoot without staff or prep then to many a pre-shoot meet up is unnecessary. Guess I'm just a little old school about it. Photography was much more expensive back in the day.

Feb 01 13 08:12 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ontherocks
Posts: 22,452
Salem, Oregon, US


it's all about cellphones and texting these days.

my mac has a feature where a little notification pops up on the right when something happens so i can respond quickly.

i've lost wedding gigs because it took me a couple hours to respond.
Feb 01 13 08:18 am  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Photographer
Rays Fine Art
Posts: 6,188
New York, New York, US


NicoleNudes wrote:
What does a meet up accomplish that a simple phone call can't?

You get a chance to "size" the other person up using all your senses to work your creepmeter (good for models), see if they look like their portfolios (good for photographers), begin to develop a comfort zone specific to the individual, develop ideas, plans verify boundaries in detail based on that comfort zone (good for everybody).  Additionally, if someone is prone to flaking, it's better to have them do it on a meet where there's only a half hour commitment rather than a shoot with a three or four hour committment as well as a financial one.

All IMHO as always, of course.

Feb 01 13 08:21 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Abbitt Photography
Posts: 11,598
Oakland Acres, Iowa, US


I think not just confirming, but giving a time frame for the confirmation is helpful in avoiding such situations.

For example, most models I shoot with drive an hour or more to get to me.  I tell them they must give me a confirmation call 1-2 hours prior to the shoot when they are just about to leave.  Neither of us are going to book anything else at that short notice, but a least it means the model is very unlikely to drive 2+ hours for nothing, and I'm very unlikely to be spending the time setting up my studio and waiting for a model that won't show.

The value of meet-ups is in my mind a separate matter from  the issue of confirmation and canceling communications.
Feb 01 13 08:24 am  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Photographer
Rays Fine Art
Posts: 6,188
New York, New York, US


I send a "reply" to my original inquiry PM setting up the meeting, exchanging cell numbers, informing the model that I don't rely on texts (Too often delayed by hours or even days by my carrier) and letting them know that I will follow-up the day before the meet or shoot via PM. (Or email if not MM)

Then I do so, requesting a confirming reply and informing them that I don't consider it an appointment unless I receive that confirmation.  No confirm, I just don't go.

Even so, it's not foolproof.  Recently I waited twenty minutes for a model with whom I'd gone through all this, walked three blocks away to the subway and just as I started down the stairs got a panicked call from her that her train had been delayed and she'd just exited the subway at the other end of he station.  We got together, had a long talk, worked out all the details, exchanged confirmations the day before the shoot.  And guess what--she flaked.  Her portfolio was removed a few days later so I can only assume that there was a major problem in her personal life.
Feb 01 13 08:31 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Looknsee Photography
Posts: 21,411
Portland, Oregon, US


I don't do meet-ups.
I don't require confirmation communication immediately before the shoot.

There's what I do...

...  Before I even contact the model, I check references.  I only negotiate with
     models who have a good track record of reliability.

...  Once we reach an agreement, I close the negotiations with a summary of the
     terms, schedule, location, and other pertinent information.

...  I show up at the appointed place; I'm usually a little early so I can set up.

...  I expect that model to show.  If she can't show, I expect that model to give me
     a heads up before I start setting up.

Feb 01 13 09:21 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Nicole L Grant
Posts: 77
Atlanta, Georgia, US


JOEL McDONALD wrote:
Oh I have the cell (still using a BB since I like the physical key pad vs the touch) and I txt with my 2 teens (single dad stuff) extensively. But the BB is my personal #. I like to keep my business activities separate from my personal as much as possible, so I have numbers for each.

The biz line is a VOIP desk unit with 2 lines and the USB feeding into my desktop. Guess I'll pick up an additional line/cell for biz txting and such with models, MUAHs and other photogs now. No biggie.

As for the pre-shoot meet ups, it's more a security thing as anything else. I've read a number of threads on here about the misfortunes of photogs. Some robbed on location (hotels rooms, etc.) and some from their commercial studios after hours. And even some that were ripped off from their own homes by escorts and/or meth head BF's.

So, since I am currently using an in-home studio (I do rent when needed) I like to have one more layer of prevention before I let a stranger into my home.

It's a lot different than it used to be. A lot more fun in many ways, but also having more need for common sense.

But the txting thing with models is now going to be remedied.

btw, the missed model emailed saying she understood the mix up.  Nice gal. We're planning another meet up shortly.

Thanks all.

You can get a google voice number and have that linked to your cell, no need to get a new line.

Feb 01 13 09:32 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Christine Eadie
Posts: 2,613
Charleston, South Carolina, US


I ask people to contact me via email.
But I also get their number so I can call.
But mixups occur sometimes. We're all human and make mistakes.
Feb 01 13 10:31 am  Link  Quote 
Model
V for Victory Modeling
Posts: 436
Roseville, California, US


I definitely agree meetings should be a must if you want to do without an escort. I actually had a photographer who wanted to plan a meeting with me. He said that when both parties are comfortable with one another, it makes for better photographs. It's also a good way to weed out flakes.

I was talking with a photographer on MM for about a month, working on planning a shoot.  On a Sunday, he told me he was free the following weekend. We set a day and time. I confirmed with him the day before and got no response. The day came and went and a few days later, he got back to me and said he thought we were meeting the weekend after that...when he clearly said the past weekend. My bad for not getting a phone or email. We did eventually exchange info and we rescheduled. I text him the day before to confirm and then he wanted to change the shoot time (railroad tracks shoot...so it would have been dark by the time he wanted to start at 5:30 instead of 4). I communicated my concerns with the lateness of the shoot, so we rescheduled yet again. When I asked the location address, he didn't respond. At that point, I decided to let him off the hook with "thanks, but no thanks".
Feb 01 13 12:40 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Rachel-Elise
Posts: 1,650
Grand Rapids, Michigan, US


JOEL McDONALD wrote:
And you're fine not knowing how they look except on MM until they walk into your studio? No need for make sure they're what you're looking for?

If the model doesn't have a makeupless photo in her portfolio, you can ask her to send you a makeupless snapshot, taken within the past week/month. Anyone with an ounce of professionalism will do that for you.

I've only done one meet and greet in my entire life, and I've been doing this since 2001. We sort out the details over the internet or phone, and then we contact to confirm in a phone call the morning of the shoot. You did well there, and it's the model's fault for not listening to her messages/checking her missed calls.

Feb 01 13 02:04 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 42,669
Salinas, California, US


vbabe wrote:
I definitely agree meetings should be a must if you want to do without an escort. I actually had a photographer who wanted to plan a meeting with me. He said that when both parties are comfortable with one another, it makes for better photographs. It's also a good way to weed out flakes.

I was talking with a photographer on MM for about a month, working on planning a shoot.  On a Sunday, he told me he was free the following weekend. We set a day and time. I confirmed with him the day before and got no response. The day came and went and a few days later, he got back to me and said he thought we were meeting the weekend after that...when he clearly said the past weekend. My bad for not getting a phone or email. We did eventually exchange info and we rescheduled. I text him the day before to confirm and then he wanted to change the shoot time (railroad tracks shoot...so it would have been dark by the time he wanted to start at 5:30 instead of 4). I communicated my concerns with the lateness of the shoot, so we rescheduled yet again. When I asked the location address, he didn't respond. At that point, I decided to let him off the hook with "thanks, but no thanks".

After rescheduling 3 times, with the communication so poor, that shoot is just not happening! 

On a positive note, I'm glad that we were able to shoot last Sunday!  We talked on the phone previous to shooting, and held Sunday tentative as to the exact time until a day or two before.  We talked for a few minutes upon meeting, then got right down to the business of shooting.  Besides the talking on the phone, I'm quite aware that you're into using texting plus messaging online.  It felt like we used just the right balance of each as to accomplish good communication over all.

However, I'd like you to know that if I were living in the South Bay area like I used to, that I would have been happy to have met you first at a coffee shop.  Now that I live a little over an hours drive South of San Jose area, it's not so easy to meet in advance.  If I had a few other things planned to do in the area, for example, doing a casting call with having a number of models meeting me at the same location.  Or having a shoot where I can invite another model to meet before or after?  But anyway, we shot that day and it was good!  smile

Could things have been improved if we'd met previously to plan a shoot?  I don't know for sure.  After looking at the images, I realized a few things I could have done differently, but I'm sure every creative person does that.  It wasn't a particularly long shoot, or a large of images either.  It's been said that if you get just a half dozen really good shots or one great shot, you've accomplished something!  I'd say we did that.  And then next time, we'll do even better!

Feb 01 13 04:06 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Images by MR
Posts: 7,692
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada


JOEL McDONALD wrote:
As for the pre-shoot meet ups, it's more a security thing as anything else. I've read a number of threads on here about the misfortunes of photogs. Some robbed on location (hotels rooms, etc.) and some from their commercial studios after hours. And even some that were ripped off from their own homes by escorts and/or meth head BF's.

This is gotta be one of the stupidest reasons to have a pre-shoot meeting I've heard sad

Please explain to me how this is going to prevent someone from robbing you?

~ MR

Feb 01 13 04:30 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
JOEL McDONALD
Posts: 608
Portland, Oregon, US


Images by MR wrote:
This is gotta be one of the stupidest reasons to have a pre-shoot meeting I've heard sad

Please explain to me how this is going to prevent someone from robbing you?

~ MR

Oh is it? I suppose these 7 (below) of the 2+ dozen or so threads I found dealing with thefts and assaults (by models, their escorts, BF's, unexpected "friends" and the like) or a set up to case your home/studio/etc. are all imagined..eh? 

http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=858421
http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=873921
http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=873414
http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=869094
http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=844036
http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=829635
http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=825379

Hey, not everyone lives in happy go lucky, we're so safe and mellow here in Canada, eh.

Feb 01 13 05:07 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DougBPhoto
Posts: 38,275
Portland, Oregon, US


JOEL McDONALD wrote:

Oh is it? I suppose these 7 (below) of the 2+ dozen or so threads I found dealing with thefts and assaults (by models, their escorts, BF's, unexpected "friends" and the like) or a set up to case your home/studio/etc. are all imagined..eh?

Not everyone lives in happy go lucky, we're so mellow here in Canada, eh.

http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=858421
http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=873921
http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=873414
http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=869094
http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=844036
http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=829635
http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=825379

So, you are saying that meeting someone in Starbucks prevents them (or someone they know) from robbing you ??

Feb 01 13 05:12 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
JOEL McDONALD
Posts: 608
Portland, Oregon, US


DougBPhoto wrote:
So, you are saying that meeting someone in Starbucks prevents them (or someone they know) from robbing you ??

Not a 100% of course not. But it's an extra layer of common sense and safety.

Check out the links. It's not that off base.

I think it's also a benefit for the model as well.

Feb 01 13 05:14 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DougBPhoto
Posts: 38,275
Portland, Oregon, US


DougBPhoto wrote:
So, you are saying that meeting someone in Starbucks prevents them (or someone they know) from robbing you ??

JOEL McDONALD wrote:
Not a 100% of course not. But it's a extra layer of common sense and safety.

Check out the links. It's not that off base.

I think it's also a benefit for the model as well.

Sounds like the same school of common sense and safety that believes a pre-shoot meeting prevents models from being raped/attacked/harassed, and escorts keeping them safe.

Do you also have pre-repair meetings with the cable man, furnace repair, plumber, painter, and electrician or any other person you may permit to enter your home to work?

Feb 01 13 05:19 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Images by MR
Posts: 7,692
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada


DougBPhoto wrote:
So, you are saying that meeting someone in Starbucks prevents them (or someone they know) from robbing you ??

JOEL McDONALD wrote:
Not a 100% of course not. But it's an extra layer of common sense and safety.

Check out the links. It's not that off base.

I think you're way off base.   

Do you actually think the model you meet for coffee is going to tell you she plans on having her boyfriend rob or assault you at the shooting.... get real eh!

Feb 01 13 05:22 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
JOEL McDONALD
Posts: 608
Portland, Oregon, US


Images by MR wrote:

I think you're way off base.   

Do you actually think the model you meet for coffee is going to tell you she plans on having her boyfriend rob or assault you at the shooting.... get real eh!

So just don't worry and be happy eh? Let a total stranger into your home/business without a little caution?

You evidently don't have a home studio, or you've never found yourself in a rough situation.

And you've never met someone and had that feeling that something just wasn't quite right?

Great to be you, eh!

I'll stick with a casual first meet up for coffee when meeting a new model, thank you.

Feb 01 13 05:29 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DougBPhoto
Posts: 38,275
Portland, Oregon, US


JOEL McDONALD wrote:
So just don't worry and just be happy eh? Let a total stranger into your home/business without a little caution?

You evidently don't have a home studio, or you're never found yourself in a rough situation.

And you've never met someone and had that feeling that something just wasn't quite right?

Great to be you, eh!

I'll stick with a casual first meet up for coffee when meeting a new llama, thank you.

It is funny that you linked all those threads, yet you totally missed the most important point stressed in all of them, equally important for photographers and llamas.

Check references, check references, check references.

Of course, you're free to take your own route if it makes you feel safer by assuming that llamas are out to rob you.

What is next, advocating photographers and llamas should wear handguns at all shoots, because you just never know.

Feb 01 13 05:35 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
JOEL McDONALD
Posts: 608
Portland, Oregon, US


DougBPhoto wrote:
It is funny that you linked all those threads, yet you totally missed the most important point stressed in all of them, equally important for photographers and models.

Check references, check references, check references.

Of course, you're free to take your own route if it makes you feel safer by assuming that models are out to rob you.

What is next, advocating photographers and models should wear handguns at all shoots, because you just never know.

I don't "assume" anything, hence the first meet up to discuss and plan a shoot with a new/unknown model.

As for handguns, I believe that's already done by some, but not by me.

And thanks for allowing me "to take your (my) own route if it makes you (me) feel safer". A very old adage ... "An ounce of prevention...".

Feb 01 13 05:43 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Images by MR
Posts: 7,692
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada


JOEL McDONALD wrote:
I'll stick with a casual first meet up for coffee when meeting a new model, thank you.

Well I'm not a big fancy professional photographer like you... I hope your pre-shoot meeting go well.

Feb 01 13 05:46 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
JOEL McDONALD
Posts: 608
Portland, Oregon, US


Images by MR wrote:
Well I'm not a big fancy professional photographer like you... I hope your pre-shoot meeting go well.

Wow, that was rather discourteous.

And my thread topic was not about whether or not to do pre-shoot meet ups, it was actually about the most effective ways/times of confirming them, as well as shoots.

But thank you for playing.

Feb 01 13 05:51 pm  Link  Quote 
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