HellBelle wrote:
I was never a super serious, doing it as a job type model, I was a very casual hobbyist, but I WAY looked up to and admired people like you and Mouse and Model Sarah and Jessalyn and Wara and Death of Field (back when she did that) that did it (and still do it).
.

Haven't gone to the thread yet
But I agree the MM greats from years ago were inspiring and a drive to want to be good enough to make it worth the money for me to pay someone like Iona or Kaitlin Lara or Jessalyn or Sarah
I was lucky to work with Mouse and Engel and others that really just came alive and conveyed emotion and expression and were aware of themselves in what they presented to the camera. 

Luckily for me Springheel, I've always been irrelevant

Zebadiah _MI wrote:

Haven't gone to the thread yet
But I agree the MM greats from years ago were inspiring and a drive to want to be good enough to make it worth the money for me to pay someone like Iona or Kaitlin Lara or Jessalyn or Sarah
I was lucky to work with Mouse and Engel and others that really just came alive and conveyed emotion and expression and were aware of themselves in what they presented to the camera. 

Luckily for me Springheel, I've always been irrelevant

lol

the first time I ever had your amazing cookies was at a shoot with Engel.

Koryn Locke wrote:
lol

the first time I ever had your amazing cookies was at a shoot with Engel.

I'm getting old, I don't remember sending Engel cookies

Zebadiah _MI wrote:

I'm getting old, I don't remember sending Engel cookies

you did. She had them at Frog's house on Long Island

Koryn Locke wrote:
you did. She had them at Frog's house on Long Island

i think i kinda remember that, that had to be a long time ago

HellBelle wrote:
Get her and Kincaid in there and watch it fly.

Who… me?

I don't know about all that. I have some thoughts on it, I guess. Perhaps they wouldn't be particularly comfortable for him to read. Perhaps they wouldn't be particularly comfortable for some of you guys to read. Depends.

Ultimately I don't see what all the fuss is about. Not that I don't get your point as to his stance being disrespectful etc but is his attitude or opinion any different from anyone else whose expressed such sentiments countless times over the years? As long as this site has been open, some have been categorically dismissive of genres outside of their own. That leads to a "I don't know who the fuck you're talking about but here's my outlook which covers how I'd generically evaluate that person in the absence of familiarity."

Why the frustration with him? Why now? Why not the other day with the other guy in the other thread? Why not when people were dismissive of OGR? Or Roger? Or Theda? Or Lapis? Or Shyly? Or Ransom?

Kincaid Blackwoo[/quote wrote:

I would have felt just as irritated if he'd said that about Theda, Shyly, et al.

I think a lot of us don't go out of SF2 much, so we don't really notice the shit-talking, unless someone points it out

Zebadiah _MI wrote:

Haven't gone to the thread yet
But I agree the MM greats from years ago were inspiring and a drive to want to be good enough to make it worth the money for me to pay someone like Iona or Kaitlin Lara or Jessalyn or Sarah
I was lucky to work with Mouse and Engel and others that really just came alive and conveyed emotion and expression and were aware of themselves in what they presented to the camera. 

Luckily for me Springheel, I've always been irrelevant

I miss a lot of the old timers, even if we never directly spoke to each other or met, I miss people knowing who the fuck each other were and being able to say someone's name in conversation and everyone know who was being talked about. Weirds me out when I'm on a shoot with someone and another model comes up in context of great models or traveling models or experienced models or whatever and they don't know who I'm talking about. Like how could you not know, they were the fucking shit not three years ago!

Apodyopsis wrote:

I miss a lot of the old timers, even if we never directly spoke to each other or met, I miss people knowing who the fuck each other were and being able to say someone's name in conversation and everyone know who was being talked about. Weirds me out when I'm on a shoot with someone and another model comes up in context of great models or traveling models or experienced models or whatever and they don't know who I'm talking about. Like how could you not know, they were the fucking shit not three years ago!

I know right?!?!?!?

Koryn Locke wrote:
I know right?!?!?!?

yup

Apodyopsis wrote:

I miss a lot of the old timers, even if we never directly spoke to each other or met, I miss people knowing who the fuck each other were and being able to say someone's name in conversation and everyone know who was being talked about. Weirds me out when I'm on a shoot with someone and another model comes up in context of great models or traveling models or experienced models or whatever and they don't know who I'm talking about. Like how could you not know, they were the fucking shit not three years ago!

I think that is why so many drop out so fast.
It takes way too much effort to stay "on top" rather then the effort it takes to earn the income.

Also markets change fast, so you have to change with them.
I have no clue what I'll be doing in 10 years from now, hell if you had asked me 5 years from now what I would be doing it would be pretty far from what I am doing today....

Death of Field wrote:

I think that is why so many drop out so fast.
It takes way too much effort to stay "on top" rather then the effort it takes to earn the income.

Also markets change fast, so you have to change with them.
I have no clue what I'll be doing in 10 years from now, hell if you had asked me 5 years from now what I would be doing it would be pretty far from what I am doing today....

I randomly met a girl about a month ago, who was so proud of having shot with someone I shot with years ago - when that person was still a newbie photographer. I'd also worked on projects with a bunch of his colleagues, back in the day. It was a "daily life" type scenario, and she was kind if bragging. I just randomly was like, "I used to shoot with him back when he was in that old location. tell him I said hi." she sort of rolled her eyes and said something to her friend about "wannabes." I was like, what the fuck...I was up in that before you were even able to legally take your shirt off in a studio, bitch. It's not as though I would ever say that, but it was like I'd never existed at all.

Kincaid Blackwood wrote:
Who… me?

I don't know about all that. I have some thoughts on it, I guess. Perhaps they wouldn't be particularly comfortable for him to read. Perhaps they wouldn't be particularly comfortable for some of you guys to read. Depends.

Ultimately I don't see what all the fuss is about. Not that I don't get your point as to his stance being disrespectful etc but is his attitude or opinion any different from anyone else whose expressed such sentiments countless times over the years? As long as this site has been open, some have been categorically dismissive of genres outside of their own. That leads to a "I don't know who the fuck you're talking about but here's my outlook which covers how I'd generically evaluate that person in the absence of familiarity."

Why the frustration with him? Why now? Why not the other day with the other guy in the other thread? Why not when people were dismissive of OGR? Or Roger? Or Theda? Or Lapis? Or Shyly? Or Ransom?

I just figured you'd argue semantics about it. "Real" model? What constitutes a "real" model? Are Mouse and Shiva and Engel and Shyly and Sarah any less "real" than Dean Johnson or Gisele Bundchen? Nope.

His/her wording on the "real models" was what really irked me.

That, and you and Sarah in that thread together would be/would have been pretty awesome. You play off of each other intellectually VERY well, and I just like reading intelligent and well-worded arguments in threads (which both of you provide whenever you write out serious posts). I guess you could say it restores my faith in humanity to see people in forums post so intelligently, and it makes the English Lit major in me glow like a lightning bug to read things of such high caliber. I live with science and math people, I'm the only humanities major/graduate in my house. I'm starving for a good argument on semantics or a riveting discussion of societal norms and culture. You could say that I'm tired of discussions on animal anatomy from the vet tech sister and doctor mom. My stepdad is a Geologist, my other sister is a Business Major with an Accounting Minor. I can barely add, subtract, multiply and divide successfully. Though, now that I've typed it all out, it seems silly for me to come here to the forums for that.


tl;dr version of that: I enjoy reading what you and Sarah post, and that particular thread seemed one that would incite a great discussion out of one of (or the both of) you, and I was curious to read what you would have to say on the subject of "real models". (Also, when someone posts that I've heard speak IRL, whether it was on the phone, through interweb radio, or in person, I hear their voice in my head reading whatever it is they're posting. And you have what is probably one of my very favorite speaking voices that I've ever heard.)

ETA: I've always had that frustration with people that say "such and so model isn't a real model." That part, for me at least, isn't a new development. I was just quieter in the forums when the people you mentioned were around, because I was very intimidated and slightly star-struck by both their work and by who they were/are as people. Now, I admire their work and appreciate them as people, but I'm not intimidated by them because A)a good number of those mentioned are no longer on the site, and B) I'm 115% firmly ensconced in the "retired person that used to model" camp (NOT "retired model," as I never considered myself a model, just a person that enjoyed modeling. Semantics, gotta love 'em).

Death of Field wrote:

I think that is why so many drop out so fast.
It takes way too much effort to stay "on top" rather then the effort it takes to earn the income.

Also markets change fast, so you have to change with them.
I have no clue what I'll be doing in 10 years from now, hell if you had asked me 5 years from now what I would be doing it would be pretty far from what I am doing today....

I'm glad that I had a shoot with you.