|
Forums >
Model Colloquy >
Who makes the photo, the model or the photogrpaher
Neither. I pop some little 'Photo Pixies' in my camera before every shoot and just sit back. Edit: TOTPM Jun 05 13 02:58 am Link It takes a model that is photogenic and/or does something interesting and a photographer that knows how + sees when to capture that. (Add styling and make-up according to taste) Jun 05 13 03:10 am Link The answer is either, neither or (preferably) both. There are models who can make almost any photographer look good, and there are photographers who can make almost any model look good. If one of them is on one side camera, and a novice is on the other side, the answer should be obvious. Most of my best photos have come when working with the best models. On the other hand, I've seen photos of the same model(s) shot by many photographers, and I suspect many if not most models would say the same thing about working with the best photographers. Jun 05 13 03:12 am Link Azimuth Arts wrote: You are talking about the difference between capture and creation. They are so totally different with highly differing skill sets. There are also highly different standards governing them. Jun 05 13 03:22 am Link Both, they are interdependent. "I believe taking someone’s portrait is an unspoken conversation in a shared space where the sitter and the maker reveal their being in a kind of silent dance of escalating expectation. We look at each other and dream about each other, and those dreams never ever meet except in the photograph." -- Melvin Sokolsky Jun 05 13 03:33 am Link ResaVictoria wrote: You do not have to be connected with the photographer. What you do need to know and know it well... is how to pose so that you look good. Practice posing in front of a full length mirror and practice. Jun 05 13 02:34 pm Link "It takes two to make a thing go right It takes two to make it outta sight..........." Jun 05 13 07:24 pm Link I have to say 60% photographer, 40% model. I know, I know... awkward statistic and all, but if the photographer is good enough he should be able to get a couple of decent pictures of the model is truly shoddy. Now if the photographer is the horrible one, well don't expect any portfolio worth pictures then even if the model one of the best in the world. In the end it is essentially both though, if I have a bad model I can only hope I get 1-2 keepers. Jun 05 13 07:26 pm Link As as you are not pressing the shutter, you're not making the photograph. Jun 05 13 07:34 pm Link i think of it like basketball. some players can get their own shots but others need an assist to score. some models can pose/express all on their own while others need direction to give a good performance. it's on the photographer to get the performance they are looking for but that is easier with some people than others. chemistry (or lack thereof) between photographer and model can make a difference. Jun 05 13 07:52 pm Link RW Steele wrote: I know some people have a problem understanding the word, Legally. Jun 05 13 08:37 pm Link How is this a question? It's obviously both. What is there to discuss here? Jun 05 13 09:14 pm Link ResaVictoria wrote: The photographer, all the way. Jun 05 13 09:19 pm Link Their are reasons simple snaps can tell a agent if a model has a look that will work. There are people who just shine and others who just don't. I lack that special gift. If a model is lacking I've found I usually can't get solid images. Talent shines through no matter what. I've heard early recordings of Michael Jackson same for Whitney. Their was something special about them. They could record with a guy beating a tin can and sound good. I've seen real fashion models. They are unique beauties. My feeling is some of you, heck most of you are better shooters then me because my feeling is when models have it they look good no matter what. That said there are reasons why fashion and beauty shooters seek out agency models and are very picky. If it were just on them would they need to be as choosy? Jun 05 13 09:35 pm Link What makes a cheese sandwich? But don't forget the butter that holds it together. Nice butter is the model and photographer getting on well. Margarine is when they chemistry isn't quite there. You've still got a sandwich though. If the cheese is too strong or the bread is cheap then it's going to ............ I can't be bothered to go on. How did this thread last three pages? Jun 06 13 05:08 am Link DTNphotography wrote: This -----but often times the picture is really made by the person seeing it. Jun 06 13 05:47 am Link I feel like it's both but I think if you felt disconnected from the photographer like most models do at times, I usually try to talk to the photographer and get what they want to get at the end of the day, and see if that matches with what you want, sometimes you have completely different images in your heads. : ) donno if I helped haha Jun 06 13 03:44 pm Link Depends on who is paying.. otherwise it's a team effort if it's only for your ports. Jun 06 13 06:42 pm Link Tony Lawrence wrote: Tony, you shot me at my jetlagged worse and I was distracted during parts of our shoot, (a little bit at times) due to other things going on and YOU made some very good shots in our short time! That was you... Jun 06 13 09:21 pm Link I kinda think this is a mute point...it is more about consistency...does the model always seem to work in the images with minimal post and 70 % keepers....must be something going on does the tog get 70% workable shots regardless the model...must be something going on some talented togs, and some beautiful natural models....and every combination between...just greatful I get to work with lovely ladies ...just my thoughts.. Jun 06 13 09:38 pm Link I am of the opinion that if the photos aren't up to par...it is ALWAYS the photographers fault - and Im a photographer saying that. He is the one looking through the lense, not the model. Here is the breakdown of responsibility: Model: Show up on time prepaired to shoot. Cooperate and follow instructions of photographer on posing. Photographer: Have the necessary equipment, proper camera, lights, reflectors ...etc. Know how to use his equipment Understand his model, the environment, and how to "direct" her. Have the means to deliver photos. I know we are trying to be "nice" about it....but if the photos could have been shot better, the responsibility has to fall to the person holding the camera. The day I started taking 100% responsibility (and the blame) for how the photo looks - my photos started improving. I would suggest you work with a variety of photographers there can be huge differences in the result. Jun 07 13 09:36 am Link A photographer is totally responsible for their work but... The models you show in your portfolio can mean the difference between being hired for a job or not. Clients often rely on your expertise on model choice. A modelling agency may ask a what seems like a innocent question about where you found a inferior model. They want too make sure that you know what works or doesn't work. Sure you can use Photoshop to clear a models skin or remove excess weight but having too do so is NOT the job of a professional fashion or commercial shooter. Unless the model is the client. Some models while beautiful have dead eyes. Others are stiff and can't emote. Some too be frank on sites like this just aren't all that attractive. If something isn't working for make-up. hair or styling. It is your job to correct it. If a model isn't as expected for weight or skin or maybe she looks much older, etc. then consider is it worth doing. When I say retouching isn't your job. Pro models shouldn't require all that much for tests. Client work is different. This is not directed at any model I've worked with. One of whom is lovely and in this thread. There is a shooter who has commented who has some models I would never shoot. The work isn't artistic of them and its to be candid, embarrassing. Clearly he has no clue about what works unless that was what he was going for. Be picky about your models. I know its tempting to shoot a model who will pose nude for trade or you haven't shot in a while and you are itching to work. Sometimes its better not too shoot some models. Jun 07 13 10:28 am Link Usually the most famous photos are photojournalism shots like these, with no 'model' involved: http://www.neatorama.com/2007/01/02/13- … the-world/ Jun 07 13 10:35 am Link There are no weak photographers or mediocre models, just people who do not mix. A good photograph is created when each of the participants bring their A game and in turn bring out the best in each other professionally. Even a begginner can be inspired by the right subject to produce something worthwhile. Jun 07 13 12:45 pm Link OP let me ask you this Who do you think make the painting? The painter or the model? Jun 08 13 08:51 am Link is it the peanut butter or the jelly? It's a team effort. That's my official position. The truth is there is only one person looking through the viewfinder so if the photo shoot doesn't produce useable results, it is probably the photographer's fault. Jun 09 13 01:14 am Link It's not me, it's not the model - it's the camera stupid!  (joke) Jun 09 13 01:31 am Link Lumatic wrote: Don't speak on my behalf. I'm speaking for my self.. Jun 09 13 02:26 am Link AJScalzitti wrote: Its not about that.. Jun 09 13 02:38 am Link If the Photographer is worth having that title then they should make the shot. They should light it and control the conditions to make the photograph. The subject (model in this case) must be put into a situation that they feel confident in to give their best performance. If the Photographer has failed to create this situation and a connection with the subject then they have failed to make the shot. A model can ruin a shoot by not performing but it is the photographers job to create the optimum situation for the model to perform in and build the lighting rig or control the natural light to best show the concept or story desired. Ok? Jun 09 13 08:34 am Link I make the photo. But if the model looks like hell or can't model/emote/relate to the camera regardless of what I do to help her, then nobody will want to look at it. Just my $0.02 Ciao Stefano www.stefanobrunesci.com Jun 09 13 08:37 am Link The models a fashion or glamor shooter uses can be critical. She/he is usually the focus of the shoot along with the clothes. A photographer needs to be free to create the image and not consider that his model has some extra weight around her tummy or a big forehead or bad teeth. I worked with a model recently and within minutes knew she just didn't have it. If you are having too do extensive work on models skin. There is a problem with your model. Liquify tool? Problem. Philipe is a wonderful shooter. One of the best here and his work would shine no matter the models used but take note of his models. His work is super creative but his models are outstanding. Practice with anyone who'll let you point a camera at them but when the plan is to step up your game. Beg great models to shoot if need be. Pay them if you can't do trade but don't ever think that showing average or sub-par models will get well paid fashion or commercial work. Real world clients know great looking faces and you are expected to show them in your book. Jun 09 13 09:28 am Link Gary Melton wrote: I would have thought the photographer is still a big factor regardless of how photogenic the model is, seen as how the photographer can still get the lighting and camera settings wrong. Jun 09 13 10:15 am Link ResaVictoria wrote: Is this about photography in general terms, or "pretty girl" photography? If it's the former, then 100% the photographer. If it is the latter, then... Jun 09 13 02:57 pm Link Nothing happens without the photographer. The model just models. Jun 09 13 03:05 pm Link Trevor bonderud wrote: I decided to test this theory. Jun 09 13 04:12 pm Link I agree that people are trying to go the politically-correct route, by giving their past, current, or potential future nude models a lot more credit than necessary. Truth be told: a very attractive nude model attracts more attention than a plain one, regardless of the photographer's poor photographic skills. Another truth: more often than not, it won't be the posing that attracts the praise. Jun 09 13 05:59 pm Link The camera. The photographer just push's the button and the camera does the rest. Mmm Sound like a ole kodak statement! Jun 09 13 06:33 pm Link RW Steele wrote:
Jun 09 13 06:41 pm Link MnPhoto wrote: The Pulitzer prize is a journalism award for news and images. It has zero to do with fashion, beauty or commercial work. A fashion and beauty shooter is judged by his work but also by the models he chooses to show. Its why sometimes when you take your book to an agency they may ask where you find your models. Fashion and beauty requires that the models be beautiful or have a special quality. Think about the iconic work of Avedon or Bailey or Newton or Penn. All used beautiful or unique women for their fashion work. Part of a photographers skill set is knowing how to pick and use models. A amateur could actually shoot a beautiful model and come away with usable work. Its just that much harder with a model who doesn't have it. Jun 09 13 07:35 pm Link |
