The Something Guy wrote:

I wonder why Kate Moss and other models of similar standing haven't figured this out instead their doing low paid editorials and ads.
A perfectly valid point.

Maybe they are already making a lot of money and can afford to do this.

The Something Guy wrote:
I wonder why Kate Moss and other models of similar standing haven't figured this out instead their doing low paid editorials and ads.
A perfectly valid point.

+1
They do it for relevancy reasons.

The Something Guy wrote:

I wonder why Kate Moss and other models of similar standing haven't figured this out instead their doing low paid editorials and ads.
A perfectly valid point.

Then hear it from a sociologist

http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/ … ogist.html


Why do you think Kas does it? After all she's been KMs body double for Testino.

Another Italian Guy wrote:

Nobody is recommending that she should charge stripper rates!

Quite the opposite in fact.

And while we're talking about additional income streams, how much do you charge for beating dead horses off of MM?



Just my $0.02 etc. etc.

IMnPhoto wrote:
+1
They do it for relevancy reasons.

And maybe a small accumulation of approx $70 million (Kate Moss) from all those badly paid modelling jobs.

PPfffttt peanuts compared to what a fit model gets paid.

<----- avi that's what I call fit model.

Eliza C  new portfolio wrote:

It doesn't work that way Tony. If you have an assertion you need to provide evidence to support it. I just have to provide evidence enough to prove you incorrect.

I have cited the last two days of London castings already and paid non nude vastly outnumber the nude. I also cited paid castings for Illinois though you weren't paying attention and showed the same.

But lets look again today

Illinois 25 - 4 clothed over nude. One of which incidentally is yours $50

http://tinyurl.com/lrjsdsq


Now if you get some takers all well and good. But a pro model who applies, what happens if she gets offered 4 days promo at $15 an hour for eight hours a day? And she's committed to your shoot? Ideally she will,see that the value of your images in addition are worth that right? But a pro model cannot sustain herself indefinitely on what you are offering and turn down day promo all the time. So while she may do it for you, she isn't wise to do it with all who ask is she?


And as for life modelling you model for long hours and,regular. It's nit a photoshoot to do a,sculpture for example takes days or weeks

And you did see the responses from models when a grand is on the table from DC Sculptor did you not? I and others were quite happy to jump on a plane for that.

So the answer would be NO.   You don't know ONE full time non nude model here.   Not one.   Not when you know lots of models and told us about all the paid non work on MM.   Not one?   I didn't ask you the rest of this.   See I can provide several full time nude models names right now with barely a thought but no non nude model who is making a living here.   Seems you can't can't either.   As I stated.   The paid work here is primarily nude.   Its being offered directly to models or they tag or PM us with rates.   I get emails once a week or so from nude models who want to be paid  but rarely hear from non nude models who only do paid shoots.

A quick glance at MM main page and no paid non nude fashion or commercial work.   You want to make something MM is not.   Its not a viable alternative to agencies.   Most of the paid work is nude.   Its telling that you couldn't give one profile of a non nude model who makes a living here but I can't either.

Tony Lawrence wrote:
So the answer would be NO.   You don't know ONE full time non nude model here.   Not one.   Not when you know lots of models and told us about all the paid non work on MM.   Not one?   I didn't ask you the rest of this.   See I can provide several full time nude models names right now with barely a thought but no non nude model who is making a living here.   Seems you can't can't either.   As I stated.   The paid work here is primarily nude.   Its being offered directly to models or they tag or PM us with rates.   I get emails once a week or so from nude models who want to be paid  but rarely hear from non nude models who only do paid shoots.

A quick glance at MM main page and no paid non nude fashion or commercial work.   You want to make something MM is not.   Its not a viable alternative to agencies.   Most of the paid work is nude.   Its telling that you couldn't give one profile of a non nude model who makes a living here but I can't either.

I know lots of full time models. I have cited a fair few in this thread already did you miss them? . Most of the fit girls will be full time. Nearly all the dancers do dance and modelling together full time.


I cannot believe you would be so ridiculous as to suggest I'd discuss what my friends,earn either that would be TOTALLY inappropriate just as it would be for you to cite yours personally. Lets just say I know,at least four of the girls cited in this thread thus far are earning WELL over double what you've quoted by the nude models you know; and even a basic journeyman like me was earning more than the girls you know.
I have said before I can prove from my payslips that to a neutral party but I think it's obvious what being on the books of a fashion house would pay roughly.


I also know plenty of full time nude models but they nearly all do life modelling.
I have cited the last three days of London castings and Illinois. The vast majority are non nude paid. I don't know what you are looking at but anyone can check those and obviously the views indicate that us exactly what models are doing.

IMnPhoto wrote:
Eliza,
She is asking for very specific information:

She wants to shoot paid work on MM - most photographers in this thread agree that most paid offers on this website are likely to be in the nude category, because they are the ones doing the hiring. Not some outside agency or garment company. They are not allowed here, remember?

If you want to help her, then just give your opinion based on your experiences.

Replace the $ signs with numbers. Remember that the values have to reflect MM transactions - not the racetrack or fittings:

For a nude shoot?:$$
For a dance shoot (specialist skill)?:$
For a nude+dance shoot?:$$$
For a clothes (fashion,beauty,commercial etc):$ or $$ or $$$

If you don't answer her question quickly, then she'll miss your gems and possibly get exploited!!

Tell her much you have charged (in pounds), and you've helped her far more than pages and pages of arguments.

She did not come here to learn the ins and outs of modeling.
She just wants someone to help her fill in the [rate] blanks, and those people are most likely the ones doing the hiring, or getting hired via MM - not people/entities outside of it.

As is the case with famous celebrities shooting low-paid ads in order to stay relevant, there is another type of relevancy - The one you always seem to miss.

Everything posted has to be taken in the context of the Model Mayhem microcosm.

Once you start talking about how much someone gets paid for fit modeling, or how much time they have to invest over several days (instead of a quick gig), you've lost your audience.

Stop Making Sense.

The Something Guy wrote:
And maybe a small accumulation of approx $70 million (Kate Moss) from all those badly paid modelling jobs.

PPfffttt peanuts compared to what a fit model gets paid.

<----- avi that's what I call fit model.

I note she has fit modelling as an option.
I also note she does dance. That's why she's a good model.

She also doesn't do nudes.

Models like Kate Moss are the top of the pyramid and there are very few models are going to get to there that really is dreaming. Fit modelling is good paid work and all the ones I cited above which are clearly all doing campaigns and editorials too have destroyed your prejudicial statements earlier.



Everything I have to say has been said and the sun is shining and I'm having the weekend off  so enjoy  everyone; Happy Easter. Off to the beach.

Bobby C wrote:
Stop Making Sense.

I miss David Byrne!
/hijack

Blue Cube Imaging wrote:
Industry forums are to be used for serious discussions.

I think that there are refugees from Soapbox here.

IMnPhoto wrote:
Eliza,
She is asking for very specific information:

Yes and those were answered long ago in the thread, and now we have this....

Alabaster Crowley wrote:
There is no right answer. Rates vary by region and experience. Try to find out what similar models in your area are charging, and go with that. If you're booking tons of work, raise your rates. If you're not booking anything, lower them.

Also note that many photographers frown upon so called "stripper rates," charging more for nude than clothed.

The right answer.

Alabaster Crowley wrote:
There is no right answer. Rates vary by region and experience. Try to find out what similar models in your area are charging, and go with that. If you're booking tons of work, raise your rates. If you're not booking anything, lower them.

Also note that many photographers frown upon so called "stripper rates," charging more for nude than clothed.

The Something Guy wrote:
The right answer.

Page 1!

Tony Lawrence wrote:

Careful, Tim.   I mean that.   I would not want  you to get half the hate I do.   Some of the models
here have a agenda.   They don't want models to do TF.   nor do they.   The more models they get
to charge for everything the better.   Many of the ladies that join are focused on the quick dollar.   They
see MM as a way to make easy cash.   They quickly lose intrest when they see how much work is
needed.   ... and I ain't mad at 'em.   If I was being asked to pose in my kit or nude for photos
that would do me no real good and I couldn't show them in polite company.   I'd want to be paid.   Add to
that mix that many newer models have no ideal what good photos mean.   Judge that by the selfies so
many show.   

The larger problem is that some models here give a false ideal of what this is all about.   Telling
models they make $50.00 or more per hour and $100.00 an hour plus for nudes does real harm.
Because many of these guys simply can't pay that much.   Forget how much equipment they have, etc.
They don't have the money.   I get pushback on this all the time but our mim. wage is less then $10.00
and hour.   Someone offering you $25.00 for several hours should be considered.   Instead models
are discouraged from accepting work even when they aren't shooting.   We all lose.   Women who
want quick money might consider dancing.   That's not a put down but modeling isn't quick or easy
cash.   

Models like the OP have to in my mind develop good negotiation skills.

I don't need to be careful. I'm not trying to build any kind of following, and I don't even care that much, any more, whether I photograph models or not. I'm hanging about in case I do get my motivation back.
When I started I took everything at face value and was entirely optimistic. I had no idea that people would do something like create a model profile when they had no intention of shooting. It took me ages to get my head around that one once I found out it was actually true. I had no idea that people would post a portfolio full of edited images and then accept your money to photograph them when they looked like they had recently died of small pox. Or that they would have a two day conversation with you on line and then fail to show up at the agreed time without explanation. But what really did it for me was witnessing the mutual fantasy building - people saying things about each other which were simply, patently, untrue; people screwing up their eyes to play make-believe, then opening them and carrying on as if they had just climbed to the top of the Faraway Tree and entered a magic land where everyone is fabulous and creative and mwah, mwah, instead of gin-soaked, string vest wearing wankers being serviced by desperate exhibitionists who have lost all hope and self-respect.