Revenge Photography wrote:
I'd like to hear first hand from models...

Unless you are standing over the shoulder of models and reading their PMs, I'm not sure how credible your results are going to be. I mean, you're only gonna hear what the models want you to hear (and what you want to hear from them as well).

IMHO

And I am simply amazed when photographers on this site tell everyone about 'all the models' that share all their personal experiences with them. I consider myself lucky when a model shows up...

salvatori. wrote:

Unless you are standing over the shoulder of models and reading their PMs, I'm not sure how credible your results are going to be.

IMHO

And I am simply amazed when photographers on this site tell everyone about 'all the models' that share all their personal experiences with them. I consider myself lucky when a model shows up...

Actually I have had model log in to MM and show me the messages they are getting.

Also I believe that most models are not pathological liars, so without evidence to the contrary I am inclined to what they say as true.

But thank you for the troll anyway.

Revenge Photography wrote:
Actually I have had model log in to MM and show me the messages they are getting.

Also I believe that most models are not pathological liars, so without evidence to the contrary I am inclined to what they say as true.

But thank you for the troll anyway.

Who's trolling? Take your passive-aggressive bullshit somewhere else. I was serious.

'I have had model log in to MM...' This is poor grammar. Does this mean ONE model? Does it mean several? Either way, I'm not trolling. You want creepy? How about a photographer who wants to read the personal correspondence of a model? No matter if it's in poor taste or not, it's none of your business.

And again, now we have to take YOUR word for it, that the PM was 'creepy.' My point is that there is too much subjectivity already, and we haven't read anything.

If your definition of someone questioning your thread equals trolling, I believe you need a better dictionary.

MartaBrixton wrote:
I try to remember but I don't think I was getting this kind of messages when I first created my profile (maybe because I clearly stated I am not interested in this kind of shoots or my memory is bad).

Thanks

I joined MM around the same time you did. At the time it didn't seem to be a problem. Whether that was because I was too new to be aware or not I don't know.

Rays Fine Art wrote:
Two things-- First, thank you for a well thought out and well defined question.  You even found a way to ask the photographers to butt out without offending us (well, most of us)

And Second, I'd also like to hear and particularly if the ladies can separate out a rough idea of the relative frequency of the inappropriate to the appropriate inquiries and whether they see the same ratio in the inquiries sent from an MM mail box vs other email services.

With die respect, I take exception to your attitude. As I am sure you are aware, we have had a rash of threads in the past week or so with requests that only certain members reply. Of course, the OP is reminded that the forums are open to everyone (as of this date, anyway), and if you read my first reply, I wasn't sarcastic, and raised, IMO, a couple of valid points.

The OP then accused me of trolling, which I believed was misguided and simply wrong.

As a FG, I thought it was just fine to compliment him for starting the thread. But i also say that to cite me in a negative manner was unnecessary, and IMO, was as much an example of baiting as the OP.

This bullshit of not wanting members to post in certain fora is ridiculous. I mean, if a thread about potential bad behavior by photographers is posted in the MC, and a photographer feels it is ill-suited to rational discussion, are we really just supposed to sit and watch the carnage?

I prefer not to sit around with my head up my ass, and will voice my opinion if I believe it necessary to the discussion.

I'm an Italian-American from Brooklyn, not sure you should expect any less...

Rays Fine Art wrote:
Two things-- First, thank you for a well thought out and well defined question.  You even found a way to ask the photographers to butt out without offending us (well, most of us)

And Second, I'd also like to hear and particularly if the ladies can separate out a rough idea of the relative frequency of the inappropriate to the appropriate inquiries and whether they see the same ratio in the inquiries sent from an MM mail box vs other email services.

The ratio is important, a few days back an experienced model created a new account because she forgot the password to her old one. In the first couple of days she got seven offers all to shoot nudes. No offers to shoot clothed. Of those seven offers three were from photographers known in the area to be creeps. Two were from photographers with no models credited and cheap porn like snapshots in their port. Only two of the seven were worth her looking into further.

Her profile is marked as "some experience" and "depends on assignment" so I wonder what types of offers "no experience" and "any" are getting. Because it certainly seems that new models are being targeted before they learn better.

Jasmine Jordon wrote:
I joined a couple of weeks ago. Since then I've only received 2 messages which I deemed to be scams. However, I have not received any "creep" emails asking for anything.

My profile clearly states I do nudes... Perhaps I should rethink the modeling thing? After all, if I'm not getting these types of messages, what does that say about my sex appeal? Oh my! And I was in the midst of arranging my first full nude shoot! Hmmm...

No, you don't have to rethink anything, you look great! Just post a casting call and you will see you'll get plenty of messages. I don't receive ANY messages at all unless I post a casting call. Good luck!

Revenge Photography wrote:
The ratio is important, a few days back an experienced model created a new account because she forgot the password to her old one. In the first couple of days she got seven offers all to shoot nudes. No offers to shoot clothed. Of those seven offers three were from photographers known in the area to be creeps. Two were from photographers with no models credited and cheap porn like snapshots in their port. Only two of the seven were worth her looking into further.

Her profile is marked as "some experienced" and "depends on assignment" so I wonder what types of offers "no experience" and "any" are getting. Because it certainly seems that new models are being targeted before they learn better.

Does this 'experienced model' list that she does nudes? If not, maybe photographers only think she's worth paying if she poses nude.

"Photographers KNOWN TO BE CREEPS." What does that mean exactly?

Cheap porn-like snapshots? Are they actually porn? If so, CAM them. But if YOU just think they're trashy, that doesn't automatically mean the guys are creeps.

There is too much subjectivity and white-knighting for me to take this seriously.

salvatori. wrote:

Does this 'experienced model' list that she does nudes? If not, maybe photographers only think she's worth paying if she poses nude.

"Photographers KNOWN TO BE CREEPS." What does that mean exactly?

Cheap porn-like snapshots? Are they actually porn? If so, CAM them. But if YOU just think they're trashy, that doesn't automatically mean the guys are creeps.

There is too much subjectivity and white-knighting for me to take this seriously.

Do you have anything positive at all to contribute?

I'm simply asking for feedback from models, I'd like to gain a better understanding of what may be a growing problem or just something that is happening locally.

I don't know why you are acting so negatively and defensively. Nobody has suggested this is targeted at you or anyone else.

Revenge Photography wrote:

Do you have anything positive at all to contribute?

I'm simply asking for feedback from models, I'd like to gain a better understanding of what may be a growing problem or just something that is happening locally.

I don't know why you are acting so negatively and defensively. Nobody has suggested this is targeted at you or anyone else.

Why do you see me as defensive?

My thoughts are that you are building a thesis on a poor foundation. That's all. Why don't you simply answer any one of the questions I have asked you instead of deflecting back to me every time?

MartaBrixton wrote:

No, you don't have to rethink anything, you look great! Just post a casting call and you will see you'll get plenty of messages. I don't receive ANY messages at all unless I post a casting call. Good luck!

Thank you! I've actually received a couple of responses to my availability notice which have resulted in scheduled shoots (fully clothed). My nude shoot is one I've set up outside MM. Perhaps I'm just not the "creepy" guy's type? Short and sweet isn't for everyone. Lol

However, things could change after my port is updated. Please do not misinterpret what I'm saying. I do not hope for "creepy" messages! I'm just saying I've not received any inappropriate messages.

salvatori. wrote:

Why do you see me as defensive?

My thoughts are that you are building a thesis on a poor foundation. That's all. Why don't you simply answer any one of the questions I have asked you instead of deflecting back to me every time?

Thankyou your opinion has been noted

Revenge Photography wrote:

Thankyou your opinion has been noted

Well, thanks for nothing. Since you want to be coy, not address anything I've asked you, continue to play all you want.

I'm gonna go bang my head against the wall.

Cayleigh Chaos wrote:
I didn't get any "creepy" offers in my email, only obvious scams.
When I first joined (not long ago) most of the first people to message me wanted something more than just portfolio building (which is even creepier considering I'm underage)
I did get a few legitimate, nice photographer messages though.

Wait, What!?

You didn't get any "creepy" offers, but MOST of the first people "wanted something more than portfolio building"?

So you did not get creepy offers for nude photo shoots, but you did get creepy offers for dates?

salvatori. wrote:
Who's trolling? Take your passive-aggressive bullshit somewhere else. I was serious.

So what part of the following did you not understand?

Revenge Photography wrote:
So please refrain from posting unless it absolutely necessary.

Cayleigh Chaos wrote:
I didn't get any "creepy" offers in my email, only obvious scams.
When I first joined (not long ago) most of the first people to message me wanted something more than just portfolio building (which is even creepier considering I'm underage)
I did get a few legitimate, nice photographer messages though.

I hope you CAM'd the inappropriate offers.

Jasmine Jordon wrote:
I joined a couple of weeks ago. Since then I've only received 2 messages which I deemed to be scams. However, I have not received any "creep" emails asking for anything.

Send me your e-mail I will send creepy message to make you
feel better.

RacerXPhoto wrote:
Send me your e-mail I will send creepy message to make you
feel better.

Bless your heart! That's so sweet of you... Trying to make a new southern belle feel welcomed! You're my new favorite person of the day! Lol

AJScalzitti wrote:
So you are saying that you don't want to hear from photographers because it's not first hand knowledge and you yourself are quoting second hand knowledge?

Regardless I think this would be a very regional thing, with very different expiernce depending on where someone lives, what is in their starter portfolio, and if they shoot nudes or not.  I have been told by several models that the last part makes a big difference (ones that have mutiple profiles).

The second hand knowledge to you is first hand to me because I read the PM's myself. Posted that information only because it's relevance as part of the reason for me starting this thread.

It is entirely possible that its a local thing, that is one of the things I want to try and determine.  The information you have from models regarding the type of profile does indeed sound like it is also a factor.

Jasmine Jordon wrote:

Bless your heart! That's so sweet of you... Trying to make a new southern belle feel welcomed! You're my new favorite person of the day! Lol

Anything to make new peeps feel welcome
Lol

Jasmine Jordon wrote:
I joined a couple of weeks ago. Since then I've only received 2 messages which I deemed to be scams. However, I have not received any "creep" emails asking for anything.

My profile clearly states I do nudes... Perhaps I should rethink the modeling thing? After all, if I'm not getting these types of messages, what does that say about my sex appeal? Oh my! And I was in the midst of arranging my first full nude shoot! Hmmm...

It is great to hear you haven't been getting creepy messages! (I do hope that you CAM'd the scam messages though) I think I have only been contacted by creepy people twice on here (I've been here too long... I can't remember any more!) and both only became creepy after adding me on Facebook. However, I seem to have joined before this became a regularly mentioned thing.
I joined other sites more recently though, and have had far worse luck there, regards creepiness. I will say that the worst site for it is Facebook, rather than any modelling place, and I have never (touch wood.... No pun intended) received creepiness through my website.

Revenge Photography wrote:
It has become increasingly common for new models to tell me that when they join this site they are bombarded with creepy requests to shoot nudes or porn like images.

I'd like to hear first hand from models.

Photographers and others unless you are actually sending those PM's I don't consider it to be first hand knowledge. So please refrain from posting unless it absolutely necessary.

Lately it seems that every new model gets 10 creepy offers by the end of the day that their account is activated.

I'm not looking to create a train wreck here, I believe it is a minority that send the PMs. What I don't know is whether it is a local phenomenon or if its widespread.

So models, please try not to generalise against photographers as a whole and photographers please don't take it personally.

- BP Photo - wrote:

Wait, What!?

You didn't get any "creepy" offers, but MOST of the first people "wanted something more than portfolio building"?

So you did not get creepy offers for nude photo shoots, but you did get creepy offers for dates?

No creepy offers in my EMAIL.
When I said the first people to message me, I was referring to messages I got through MM's messaging system.
Got offers for dates, and nudity too.

Revenge Photography wrote:

I hope you CAM'd the inappropriate offers.

The moment I saw anything creepy about the messages!

Revenge Photography wrote:
I hope you CAM'd the inappropriate offers.

Cayleigh Chaos wrote:
The moment I saw anything creepy about the messages!

Always the best option.

The worst that can happen is the mods might say you over reacted, but no harm done.

Revenge Photography wrote:

Actually I have had model log in to MM and show me the messages they are getting.

Also I believe that most models are not pathological liars, so without evidence to the contrary I am inclined to what they say as true.

But thank you for the troll anyway.

A photographer gives his honest opinion and you label him a Troll?... C'mon, be more creative than to
dish out a way overused term that doesn't even fit the premise.... Start a thread asking for input and condemn others that have a different opinion than your own? ... welcome to communism

Katsung wrote:
Can we define "creepy"  ?

I hear it so often these days.

am curious too.  OP how about posting some samples