-JAY- wrote:
Recently, I started rebuilding some of my kit, and ditched some of my YongNuo 560II flashes for the new Neewer TT850 (Godox Ving 850.)

The TT850 has three things going for it.

1) Its battery is a LiIon with several times the capacity of AA rechargeables, and faster recycle (<2s)

2) With the FT-16s wireless triggers, you have remote power control over your flash (and the receiver needs no batteries)

3) With the Cells II triggers you get wireless HSS.

--- while I still recommend the 560II / III with RF-603 for a "best budget kit" the TT850 and FT-16s wins if you can stretch another $30 ($120 for HSS)

BUT - YongNuo is coming out with a new toy - being released at the end of June. They've hinted at it before after they released the YN560III --- the technology was there to wirelessly control the power... and they announced on Tuesday their new transmitter, the 560TX. It's a hotshoe mounted controller, similar to an S2-E2, but acts as a 603 trigger for 602/3 enabled flashes (like the 560III - probably more in the future) --- this trigger allows you to control the power levels of 6 groups (most wireless systems do 3-4, yeah?) Wireless control has always been one of the few "faults" spewn out by gear elitists when it comes to cheap manual flashes... that's changing fast.

Depending on the price, (yet unannouned, my money's on $40ish) a 560TX with 560IIIs could reign supreme as the king of budget beginners kit.

This is odd timing as I was just looking at the 560III and all the possibilities as my first set. I was thinking of getting the bracket for 4 and getting 4 of the 560III to use at first. Now I may have to wait a little to see.

Steve Young Photos wrote:

This is odd timing as I was just looking at the 560III and all the possibilities as my first set. I was thinking of getting the bracket for 4 and getting 4 of the 560III to use at first. Now I may have to wait a little to see.

It's still a great option. This would just replace the dumb 603 trigger, it's essentially a 603 trigger that allows you to change the power output on 560IIIs.

No reason not to get the 560IIIs now, and just adjust the power manually until this arrives

-JAY- wrote:

It's still a great option. This would just replace the dumb 603 trigger, it's essentially a 603 trigger that allows you to change the power output on 560IIIs.

No reason not to get the 560IIIs now, and just adjust the power manually until this arrives

Good idea or get 3 and that when it comes out as that will probably be about when I'll have the money too.

-JAY- wrote:
Recently, I started rebuilding some of my kit, and ditched some of my YongNuo 560II flashes for the new Neewer TT850 (Godox Ving 850.)

The TT850 has three things going for it.

1) Its battery is a LiIon with several times the capacity of AA rechargeables, and faster recycle (<2s)

2) With the FT-16s wireless triggers, you have remote power control over your flash (and the receiver needs no batteries)

3) With the Cells II triggers you get wireless HSS.

--- while I still recommend the 560II / III with RF-603 for a "best budget kit" the TT850 and FT-16s wins if you can stretch another $30 ($120 for HSS)

BUT - YongNuo is coming out with a new toy - being released at the end of June. They've hinted at it before after they released the YN560III --- the technology was there to wirelessly control the power... and they announced on Tuesday their new transmitter, the 560TX. It's a hotshoe mounted controller, similar to an S2-E2, but acts as a 603 trigger for 602/3 enabled flashes (like the 560III - probably more in the future) --- this trigger allows you to control the power levels of 6 groups (most wireless systems do 3-4, yeah?) Wireless control has always been one of the few "faults" spewn out by gear elitists when it comes to cheap manual flashes... that's changing fast.

Depending on the price, (yet unannouned, my money's on $40ish) a 560TX with 560IIIs could reign supreme as the king of budget beginners kit.

Too big for anything other than a typical DSLR...I would rather buy something more compact. DSLR's will be dead in a short while.

Price is good though...Canon and Nikon should take note.

-JAY- wrote:
Recently, I started rebuilding some of my kit, and ditched some of my YongNuo 560II flashes for the new Neewer TT850 (Godox Ving 850.)

The TT850 has three things going for it.

1) Its battery is a LiIon with several times the capacity of AA rechargeables, and faster recycle (<2s)

2) With the FT-16s wireless triggers, you have remote power control over your flash (and the receiver needs no batteries)

3) With the Cells II triggers you get wireless HSS.

--- while I still recommend the 560II / III with RF-603 for a "best budget kit" the TT850 and FT-16s wins if you can stretch another $30 ($120 for HSS)

BUT - YongNuo is coming out with a new toy - being released at the end of June. They've hinted at it before after they released the YN560III --- the technology was there to wirelessly control the power... and they announced on Tuesday their new transmitter, the 560TX. It's a hotshoe mounted controller, similar to an S2-E2, but acts as a 603 trigger for 602/3 enabled flashes (like the 560III - probably more in the future) --- this trigger allows you to control the power levels of 6 groups (most wireless systems do 3-4, yeah?) Wireless control has always been one of the few "faults" spewn out by gear elitists when it comes to cheap manual flashes... that's changing fast.

Depending on the price, (yet unannouned, my money's on $40ish) a 560TX with 560IIIs could reign supreme as the king of budget beginners kit.

Ooooh, shiny! I like it!

Leighthenubian wrote:

Too big for anything other than a typical DSLR...I would rather buy something more compact. DSLR's will be dead in a short while.

Price is good though...Canon and Nikon should take note.

Dude, it's speedlight, how much more compact can you get?

Also, interwebz says they sync up at 1/8000. This sounds like an impressively interesting alternative to few ABs with Vagabonds. Question is how much they lose in power during the HSS

cwwmbm wrote:
Jay, how much of an HSS can you get on Canon 5D Mk2 cameras? Is it something just for the sake of the buzzword where you gain 1 stop of power in shutter speed but sacrifice 1/2 stop in the flash firing power because it fires several times, or is it something decent?

In my tests with the Neewer (haven't tested the YN) HSS - it has performed similarly to my 580exII and SB800s.

Each stop gained in shutter speed is lost in flash power, or thereabouts.

This isn't a bad thing, though. A 580exII will put out f/13 @ 10 feet at 50mm zoom.

f/13 with 1/200
f/9 at 1/400
f/6.3 at 1/800
f/4.5 at 1/1600
f/3.2 at 1/3200
f/2.2 at 1/6400 (near enough to max)

HSS ins't usually about overpowering the sun, though it can do that... its more about flexibility in using what aperture you want, without being limited by shutter speed.

f/2 with 1/8000 gives you the DOF you want, while still being half a stop over ambient (at ten feet --- put the light 6 feet away, and you've got f/21 instead of f/13 for just about 2 stops of sun overpowerage)

cwwmbm wrote:

Dude, it's speedlight, how much more compact can you get?

And the transmitter is only half the size, since it's without the head!

-JAY- wrote:

In my tests with the Neewer (haven't tested the YN) HSS - it has performed similarly to my 580exII and SB800s.

Each stop gained in shutter speed is lost in flash power, or thereabouts.

This isn't a bad thing, though. A 580exII will put out f/13 @ 10 feet at 50mm zoom.

f/13 with 1/200
f/9 at 1/400
f/6.3 at 1/800
f/4.5 at 1/1600
f/3.2 at 1/3200
f/2.2 at 1/6400 (near enough to max)

HSS ins't usually about overpowering the sun, though it can do that... its more about flexibility in using what aperture you want, without being limited by shutter speed.

f/2 with 1/8000 gives you the DOF you want, while still being half a stop over ambient (at ten feet --- put the light 6 feet away, and you've got f/21 instead of f/13 for just about 2 stops of sun overpowerage)

That's bare though, right? If we put in some kind of softening modifier like umbrella it goes down even further?

cwwmbm wrote:
That's bare though, right? If we put in some kind of softening modifier like umbrella it goes down even further?

True. But the concept remains the same. At the end of the day, the HSS I've seen from these doesn't differ from the name brand flagship flashes - and there's literature on that spewed everywhere online.

-JAY- wrote:
True. But the concept remains the same. At the end of the day, the HSS I've seen from these doesn't differ from the name brand flagship flashes - and there's literature on that spewed everywhere online.

I'm not implying they are worse, I just never dealt with HSS before because the cost was higher than ABs. When it's that cheap (and being able to manage power remotely on top of that) I start questioning whether it's actually a good idea to dive into the HSS world.

This is the kind of light control I'm looking for. Is it possible to HSS in some kind of softlighter? Suppose I put 2-3 of them inside.
https://www.modelmayhem.com/portfolio/pic/36101823

ETA: This was shot in the afternoon with the sun behind him on camera left, to give you an idea. It's not desert Nevada sun but it was still pretty bright

cwwmbm wrote:
I'm not implying they are worse, I just never dealt with HSS before because the cost was higher than ABs. When it's that cheap (and being able to manage power remotely on top of that) I start questioning whether it's actually a good idea to dive into the HSS world.

This is the kind of light control I'm looking for. Is it possible to HSS in some kind of softlighter? Suppose I put 2-3 of them inside.
https://www.modelmayhem.com/portfolio/pic/36101823

ETA: This was shot in the afternoon with the sun behind him on camera left, to give you an idea. It's not desert Nevada sun but it was still pretty bright

Should be doable without a problem. I can get that light coverage with 4 flashes (on half power, so 2 on full) from 8 feet or so... (f/14 in an 86" white umbrella - http://jayleavitt.com/links/sonja_mm_1.jpg - more colorful and shiny, but roughly the same ambient levels-ish?)

With HSS I could have done the same at f/2-2.8ish with 2 flashes - 4 makes it easier on batteries and recycle, though.

cwwmbm wrote:

I'm not implying they are worse, I just never dealt with HSS before because the cost was higher than ABs. When it's that cheap (and being able to manage power remotely on top of that) I start questioning whether it's actually a good idea to dive into the HSS world.

This is the kind of light control I'm looking for. Is it possible to HSS in some kind of softlighter? Suppose I put 2-3 of them inside.
https://www.modelmayhem.com/portfolio/pic/36101823

ETA: This was shot in the afternoon with the sun behind him on camera left, to give you an idea. It's not desert Nevada sun but it was still pretty bright

If you already have the AB's, the pending YN-622C-TX (similar to what the OP is about, but for the YN-622C triggers [there is already a Nikon version]) will have a timing adjustment, to allow HSS (Supersync, whatever you want to call it) with the AB's.  It's just a matter of "when".  They're already way overdue.  Yongnuo just says, "soon."

ECN Photography wrote:
If you already have the AB's, the pending YN-622C-TX (similar to what the OP is about, but for the YN-622C triggers [there is already a Nikon version]) will have a timing adjustment, to allow HSS (Supersync, whatever you want to call it) with the AB's.  It's just a matter of "when".  They're already way overdue.  Yongnuo just says, "soon."

They started production in February - then stopped... I'd say they'll be out before the 600EX's Octoberish release.

ECN Photography wrote:
Their first published release date was December 2013.  Don't get me wrong... I'm glad they're trying not to release something that doesn't work.  But as the child waiting for Christmas, they need to hurry!  LOL

Does this help?

Leighthenubian wrote:
Too big for anything other than a typical DSLR...I would rather buy something more compact. DSLR's will be dead in a short while.

Price is good though...Canon and Nikon should take note.

DSLR's dead in a short while? Just like how film camera died right (sarcasm of course, tons of people still shoot film).

Show me a $500 Mirrorless Full Frame Sensor Camera Body than I might agree with you or an $80 APS-C Sensored Mirrorless Body.

As for this new Transciever/controller.....I'll definitely be getting one.

Yongnuo is leading the pack now when it comes to Speed Light's and accessories. My YN560II is still going strong after 1 and 1/2 years of abuse.

-JAY- wrote:
In my tests with the Neewer (haven't tested the YN) HSS - it has performed similarly to my 580exII and SB800s.

Each stop gained in shutter speed is lost in flash power, or thereabouts.

This isn't a bad thing, though. A 580exII will put out f/13 @ 10 feet at 50mm zoom.

f/13 with 1/200
f/9 at 1/400
f/6.3 at 1/800
f/4.5 at 1/1600
f/3.2 at 1/3200
f/2.2 at 1/6400 (near enough to max)

HSS ins't usually about overpowering the sun, though it can do that... its more about flexibility in using what aperture you want, without being limited by shutter speed.

f/2 with 1/8000 gives you the DOF you want, while still being half a stop over ambient (at ten feet --- put the light 6 feet away, and you've got f/21 instead of f/13 for just about 2 stops of sun overpowerage)

There's no way one is overpowering the sun or even filling in shadows at F2 1/8000 with a single Yongnuo HSS fighting against the sun.......

You'd be much better off using a ND filter and gaining the full power of your flash and possibly using 2 Yongnuo 560III's for the price of a single YN-568EX II.

You'd probably gain around 1 1/2 extra stops of power (around that) using two Yongnuo 560 III's (no HSS equals more power) and a ND filter.

This would open up more creative choices as well with the extra power such as uses of modifiers and/or placing your flash further back and at different angles.

-JAY- wrote:

It's still a great option. This would just replace the dumb 603 trigger, it's essentially a 603 trigger that allows you to change the power output on 560IIIs.

No reason not to get the 560IIIs now, and just adjust the power manually until this arrives

I see these triggers are controlling flash,  I'm looking for controlling Mono's what would work best for that
?

Rob Walker wrote:

I see these triggers are controlling flash,  I'm looking for controlling Mono's what would work best for that
?

Walking over and adjusting the power. (though some monos, when used with propreitary transmitters, allow remote power adjustment - AlienBees Cyber Commander - for the low end)

Warrenjrphotography-SJ wrote:
There's no way one is overpowering the sun or even filling in shadows at F2 1/8000 with a single Yongnuo HSS fighting against the sun.......

K

-JAY- wrote:

GNs are at what ISO...? (EDIT) At the GODOX website (the actual manufacturer) their VING 850 has a GN of 190 (ft) for the 105mm focused angle at ISO 100.

105mm is meaningless regarding GNs -- unless the strobe beam is focused to a 105mm lens' included viewing angle.
.

RSM-images wrote:
GNs are at what ISO...?

105mm is meaningless regarding GNs...!

.

All at ISO 100.

105 is not meaningless. Its used as a metric - All other things considered, a flash with the same GN rating at 105 will have the same rating at 24/35 (meaning in an umbrella or softbox) ---- GN @ 105mm (or any other, but 105 is the norm) gives a decent comparison from one flash to another.

eg: Sb910, 600exrt, f58em, yn560II, TT850 --- all have GN58 @ 105mm --- and guess what? All the flashes are similar (the same) at all zoom ranges... it's a metric / baseline.

The 560II has GN58, the 510ex has 53, that's 1/3 of a stop (give or take)

560II has Gn 34 @ 35mm (for general use in an umbrella / softbox) while the 510ex has GN 30 (1/3 of a stop) When you buy camera gear, do you like knowing what the power difference is between one flash and the next? Cause i do.

RSM-images wrote:
(EDIT) At the GODOX website (the actual manufacturer) their VING 850 has a GN of 190 (ft) for the 105mm focused angle at ISO 100.

Correct. And do the math. 190 feet is 58 meters, when meters has been the default for ages. A Canon 580exII has a GN of 191 for 105mm --- it's all marketing. 190 is more than 58, so some companies use 190. Nikon has used GN at ISO 200, which also artificially inflates the numbers... But apples to apples comparisons tell a different story.

I have put thousands of tests through the Ving 850, TT850, YN560, YN560II, SB900, SB910, 550, 580ex, 580exII, and about three dozen others... I'd like to say I know what I'm talking about when it comes to power output with popular hotshoe flashes.

-JAY- wrote:
Depending on the price, (yet unannouned, my money's on $40ish) a 560TX with 560IIIs could reign supreme as the king of budget beginners kit.

Probably, despite my guess is more toward the $60, although it is a less flexible solutions compared the Godox (since its possible reuse their trigger on their studio flash) and cactus v6 (since they support the remote control of the power level on almost every TTL flash) while the YN 560 TX support the remote control of the power level only on the YN 560 III unit.

Viator Defessus Photos wrote:
I have 3 of the YN560-IIIs that I like a lot and some RF603 triggers. I'm wanting to get more of the YN560-IIIs, I'll probably get one of these too and some RF603NIIs.

I don't think you need other RF603 units since the YN560 III have already a built in receiver while only the new YN 560 TX give you remote control, and you have already the RF603 triggers when you don't want use the YN 560 TX.

Warrenjrphotography-SJ wrote:

DSLR's dead in a short while? Just like how film camera died right (sarcasm of course, tons of people still shoot film).

Show me a $500 Mirrorless Full Frame Sensor Camera Body than I might agree with you or an $80 APS-C Sensored Mirrorless Body.

As for this new Transciever/controller.....I'll definitely be getting one.

Yongnuo is leading the pack now when it comes to Speed Light's and accessories. My YN560II is still going strong after 1 and 1/2 years of abuse.

Yup...my grandfather shaved with a straight razor too. Doesn't change the fact that it's not any better or more convenient than a modern disposable razor. Less cost, less size and equal if not better shave.

Carry on using your film.

-JAY- wrote:
Recently, I started rebuilding some of my kit, and ditched some of my YongNuo 560II flashes for the new Neewer TT850 (Godox Ving 850.)

The TT850 has three things going for it.

1) Its battery is a LiIon with several times the capacity of AA rechargeables, and faster recycle (<2s)

2) With the FT-16s wireless triggers, you have remote power control over your flash (and the receiver needs no batteries)

3) With the Cells II triggers you get wireless HSS.

--- while I still recommend the 560II / III with RF-603 for a "best budget kit" the TT850 and FT-16s wins if you can stretch another $30 ($120 for HSS)

BUT - YongNuo is coming out with a new toy - being released at the end of June. They've hinted at it before after they released the YN560III --- the technology was there to wirelessly control the power... and they announced on Tuesday their new transmitter, the 560TX. It's a hotshoe mounted controller, similar to an S2-E2, but acts as a 603 trigger for 602/3 enabled flashes (like the 560III - probably more in the future) --- this trigger allows you to control the power levels of 6 groups (most wireless systems do 3-4, yeah?) Wireless control has always been one of the few "faults" spewn out by gear elitists when it comes to cheap manual flashes... that's changing fast.

Depending on the price, (yet unannouned, my money's on $40ish) a 560TX with 560IIIs could reign supreme as the king of budget beginners kit.

I really, really wish the Cells II came in a Nikon version!! Would be even cooler if there was an all in one answer for the V850's.

Leighthenubian wrote:
Yup...my grandfather shaved with a straight razor too. Doesn't change the fact that it's not any better or more convenient than a modern disposable razor. Less cost, less size and equal if not better shave.

Carry on using your film.

Your post makes no sense.

The bottomline is that the mirrorless equivalent to what you can get with a DSLR is WAY more expensive.

For example, I can get a 5Dc for only $500 or a 20D for $80.

Where can I get a full frame mirrorless for $500 or less?

The Sony a7R Full-Frame 36.4 MP Interchangeable Digital Lens Camera - Body Only is $2,300....that's a difference in cost of almost 5X of what a 5Dc would cost me........

Even most APS-C Mirrorless bodies are around 4X the cost of a 20D.

I also don't see what a mirrorless can produce that a DSLR can not produce.

There have not been any major technological advancements when it comes to sensor quality or anything that would boost artistic capability's since DSLR's were first released which was when digital started to become mainstream.

Warrenjrphotography-SJ wrote:
Yongnuo is leading the pack now when it comes to Speed Light's and accessories. My YN560II is still going strong after 1 and 1/2 years of abuse.

I think Godox is making a good push to take that position from Yongnuo with their v850 and v860 speedlights. The v860 has HSS, ETTL, and a lithium battery (600 full power shots with a 1.5 sec recycle at full power) for around $175.

Phantasmal Images wrote:

I think Godox is making a good push to take that position from Yongnuo with their v850 and v860 speedlights. The v860 has HSS, ETTL, and a lithium battery (600 full power shots with a 1.5 sec recycle at full power) for around $175.

You can get three YN560II's for that much though.....

Warrenjrphotography-SJ wrote:

You can get three YN560II's for that much though.....

But their TT850 (v850) is $100, with lithium battery (600 full power @ 1.5s) and their FT-16s receivers don't need batteries.

True price of a 560III is more like $75 + $15 ($90) for a set of good AA recyclables - so apples to apples is like $10 more for a massively efficient battery system.