calliecalypso wrote:
spiked with roofies. We blacked out
he took pictures of him raping us
sent those images to rape-themed porn sites.

okay i'm going to have to say, yes, that's to touchy...

More importantly, did you learn from your experience? (Which is explained rather oddly and sheds doubt on the whole episode)

EDIT: This pertains to the question the OP asked- ""what to do when a photographer gets a little too touchy""
And lastly, in case you didn't think of it prior to this;
Maybe put it in writing on your bio/profile that "you don't want to be grabbed at, touched. If the rule is broken the shoot will end at that very point in time." etc.
Now I am aware this won't stop the deviant evil jerks who drug and abuse women.
But this may let the people who misunderstand nude modeling, and think it's OK to grab at them, that it is not ok for them to grab at you.
Just a thought.

calliecalypso wrote:
I'm curious as to what to do when a photographer gets a little too touchy-feely/personal/intimate.

Immediately tell them that you are not ok with their behaviour. DO NOT WAIT! Your tone and delivery should reflect how uncomfortable you feel/how inappropriate they are being. For instance if they touch your body to move it into the light, not necessary sexually, but in a way you'd rather they not do, you could say, "I'm sorry, I'm uncomfortable being touched, but take verbal direction well" and if they're reasonable human beings, they should get the message. If they keep touching you or if the touch is inappropriate, be firm and tell them "This makes me uncomfortable". If it's really bad (you'll feel it in your gut), it's 100% within your rights to get up and leave. End of shoot. A nice set of pics is great and all but NOTHING is worth risking your health and safety.

calliecalypso wrote:
And finally, is it okay to warn other models about photographers you had weird or even bad experiences with or let them go on ahead and see what happens?

Personally, I wouldn't randomly go around MM trashing the person. If something bad truly happened, I'd report it to mods and/or go to the police. But if a model asks about a photographer, tell them your experience! They can make up their own minds as to whether or not they want to work with them, but don't say nothing at all! Referrals are one of the great things about MM and a way we can help keep other safe in that crazy world out there.

Calliecalypso, I'm truly sorry about what happened to you with the club. Take some solace in the fact that this criminal was brought to justice and that by sharing your story, you're helping a lot of people potentially avoid a similar situation. Thank you!

Now for my "most inappropriate experience with a tog" story:

I once had a woman (!) approach me when I was 19 and working in a burger place (that involved a hideous uniform with a bow tie and wedge cap, blech!) and say "You're gorgeous and you have a beautiful body that I bet would look even better naked. Would you like to pose for my husband and I? I'll pay you $100." Although I was very poor, I said no! She gave me her phone number.  Dropped it in the deep fryer, felt so ashamed to even be asked. The irony: now I'm pushing 40, heavier and certainly more wrinkled and I can't keep my clothes on, lol!

Man, I'm verbose today:p

Locutus wrote:

okay i'm going to have to say, yes, that's to touchy...

More importantly what did you learn from your experience?

And lastly, in case it didn't occur to you, express in writing, UP FRONT, when anyone first contacts you, (or even before anyone contacts you, by putting it in your profile and bio)
that you are NOT to be touched, grabbed poked at, etc etc etc.

I do make it explicit that I don't like to be touched, just verbally directed. At the time of the assault I was a dancer not a model and my employer was in charge of the shoot and I trusted their judgement. I learned a lot from that. I don't take drinks from anyone unless they're sealed like cans of soda or something.

Locutus wrote:
And lastly, in case it didn't occur to you, express in writing, UP FRONT, when anyone first contacts you, (or even before anyone contacts you, by putting it in your profile and bio)
that you are NOT to be touched, grabbed poked at, etc etc etc.

I get clearly stating your boundaries- especially if you had a horrible experience like the OP did- but why should you have to TELL any photographer with even an ounce of professionalism this???!!! If a photographer thinks that you're just some object that they can touch and use any way they please, you shouldn't be working with them in the first place!

*palm to forehead*

The Ministry of Glamour wrote:
why should you have to TELL any photographer with even an ounce of professionalism this???!!!

*palm to forehead*

why would you have to tell some stranger who MIGHT have an ounce of professionalism this?
How about just tell everyone this to make sure everyone knows in advance. So there is NO DOUBT, NO misunderstandings?
"THESE ARE MY BOUNDARIES! Cross them and we're done."
SIMPLE straight forward communication.
Say exactly what you mean, be direct, and stick to it.

Locutus wrote:
why would you have to tell some stranger who MIGHT have an ounce of professionalism this?
How about just tell everyone this to make sure everyone knows in advance. So there is NO DOUBT, NO misunderstandings?
"THESE ARE MY BOUNDARIES! Cross them and we're done."
SIMPLE straight forward communication.
Say exactly what you mean, be direct, and stick to it.

Why should we have to? It should be taken as a given.
In no other legitimate employment or professional situation do you have to express what your limits are ie being sexually assaulted, molested etc.
ALL photographers should realise this.

They don't of course, so I had to pit up a profile message warning that this site is not a,knocking shop and that I would not tolerate lewd messaging. I'm guessing the minority of photographers believing that models are of loose sexual virtue are rare but there are plenty out there.

This infuriates me because it is important that models, particularly those who model nude, are respected. Just because we model nude does not mean we are up for anything sexual. Photographers expecting to be able to touch up models etc are out of order in the same,way any other employer would be. The line is there we shouldn't have to draw it.

As for my own personal weird experiences.

There was a guy who ran several of the meet-up life drawing groups. After he secured me a few dozen gigs, he began to imply that he deserved sexual favour. So I simply broke contact and had to start my work load schedule over.This was effectively casting couch. I warned a few other girls, as did some of the artists who found his behaviour to models out of order.

The second time was a photographer on MM who had been getting published in major fashion magazines and shooting celebs. He also made a casting couch attempt in crude and vile manner; cancelling when I refused. I felt maybe I should have gone to the Police. I didn't, to my shame because I feel I could have maybe stopped him.
He went on to commit a series of assaults on models.
Thankfully, some of them did speak up and he got put away for three years eventually:
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/photogra … 69509.html
This was damaging to me. I felt something I had done personally had made him believe I was up for this. It made me feel somehow that what I was doing modelling was giving signals that I was up for that kind of thing. Thanks to several MM photographers and supportive partner and other models, I was able to overcome this. But I have never forgotten there are those photographers who believe because we model nude we are sluts to be abused in their minds.


I have heard photographers here on MM suggest there is nothing wrong with sexual relations between consenting adults so if the model is up for it that's fine. But because models look up to photographers for advice, the latter is in a position of power which can be abused with coercion etc.
It's an abuse of professional trust. Don't use your power over her because you are paying her or she wants to shoot with you to coerce, or use professional promises etc if she co-operates in sex.


I've had two such experiences so they are rare. But the fact the latter was not a gwc was troubling. In fact, all the amateur photographers I have worked with have behaved impeccably well. A model should not have to draw the line and lose work because they refuse. And photographers above all people should not think of us as easy because we model nude. Thankfully most do appreciate this.

Isis22 wrote:
I have only had one photographer get too handsy. I told him if he did it again I was going to smack him. He stopped and apologized then and later online as well. If any models ask he will not be getting a good reference from me.

I am very sorry about your experience with roofies. I was drugged once but a friend had come back to check on me so I was able to get out of the situation. I am very careful about accepting drinks from anyone. It had better be sealed like a bottle of water. I always bring my own to shoots.

Which is why, despite it not being green, I always offer bottled water, and a brand new pack of cookies.

J Jessica wrote:
A photographer once told me about his strong belief in other worlds and that we, as Earthlings, are being watched by a higher society of peaceful, yet intelligent, martians.

I choose to sidestep the serious part of this thread to concentrate on this.

Holy crap, that's awesome.  Every once in a while, I bust out my Solipsism belief.  That's where I actually believe that I am somewhat of a God living as a single entity and that everything that I experience is a product of my own conscience.  When I am not directly experiencing you, you simply don't exist.

I don't REALLY believe this, but it's an interesting discussion.

Maybe we ARE really just in the Matrix and none of this is real.  Or maybe it is.

Eliza C  new portfolio wrote:
Why should we have to? It should be taken as a given.

If people really want to risk it, okay.
I don't like assuming someone knows something I know, thinks the way I think. Even if it's common sense to me, it doesn't mean it's common sense to them.

I first encountered this some years ago.
I knew this guy at work,Jim, for about two years, and he was super nice, smart, funny, a great person to hang out with.
One day a female at work, Cindy, who was just trying to fit in and be one of the gang, so to speak.
She did like I and the other males had done.
Jim made a joking comment and Cindy Sprayed Jim with a water hose. A small wrestling match ensued and we all laughed.
After we ribbed Jim about a girl kicking his ass etc, he said " Did you see that? She wants me. She was throwing herself at me!"
and he was serious about this.
HE TRULY believed because Cindy did EXACTLY like we guys had done countless times, that she must want to have sex with him...
I even asked Jim, "SO when I sprayed you with the water hose and threw you out the door, I wanted to have sex with you?"
His reply; " NO! You're a guy, we do things like that for fun. But a girl doing that is her showing the guy she wants him."

Now why did i tell this story?
PEOPLE PERCEIVE THINGS DIFFERENTLY.
I see something one way, someone else looks at the same exact thing, and sees it in a totally different way.

Modeling nude, can be perceived differently.
The model, wants to create art.
ME, I see a model that is nude, as a form of art I want to transform into something even more beautiful, in my photographs.
A different guy can think " She wants me, shes undressing, she's practically throwing herself at me..."
The only way to make sure that everyone involved understands something, for what it is, is to explain it so there is no doubt.

Isis22 wrote:
I was drugged once but a friend had come back to check on me so I was able to get out of the situation. I am very careful about accepting drinks from anyone. It had better be sealed like a bottle of water. I always bring my own to shoots.

Ya you just can't be too careful now-a-days.
I like keeping models at ease by not giving them anything to be suspicious about.
As for drinks and food for a long day shoot that is a small affair, I have the model meet us, my wife, makeup artist and i, at a supermarket or convenience store. We then go inside I buy the things she wants. And then we are off to the location.

As for being touchy?
I am a 100% HANDS-OFF kind of guy.
I believe in personal space. So I do not get closer than three or so feet.
If something needs adjusting, and the model cannot do it, my wife, or the makeup artist will assist the model.
But that's me, just, How I like to do things.

J Jessica wrote:
A photographer once told me about his strong belief in other worlds and that we, as Earthlings, are being watched by a higher society of peaceful, yet intelligent, martians.

That's actually true.

The government actually has contingency plans in the event of an invasion. They even discussed it at the UN.

calliecalypso wrote:
I'm curious as to what to do when a photographer gets a little too touchy-feely/personal/intimate. ....
And here's an all out bad experience I had years ago (Trigger warning-):

When I was in college...

. He gave us drinks which turned out to be spiked with roofies. We blacked out and found out later he took pictures of him raping us and sent those images to rape-themed porn sites. I got in trouble with my college and the club got in trouble. Things eventually got straightened out and the club sued the hell out of the guy. But it was awful.  The club was very legit and professional and the owner felt like crap because they had no idea. The photographer did work for many businesses and came off as highly professional with a great portfolio and everything.

And finally, is it okay to warn other models about photographers you had weird or even bad experiences with or let them go on ahead and see what happens?

edit upfront...You are 19 years old now? Were you in college at 16? GoGo dancing at a club underage?

What? Are you saying you were raped with drugged drinks and that the court was involved and things eventually worked out??

What?

Wait...WHAT???!

Have you sought out professional help for PTSD? Nothing about your post sounds easily answerable in a random forum post.

I wish you the best and highly encourage you to seek professional help.

Jen
p.s. and if this was a well regarded photographer "and everything turned out okay" then a lot of things do not add up.

Locutus wrote:
If people really want to risk it, okay.
I don't like assuming someone knows something I know, thinks the way I think. Even if it's common sense to me, it doesn't mean it's common sense to them.

I first encountered this some years ago.
I knew this guy at work,Jim, for about two years, and he was super nice, smart, funny, a great person to hang out with.
One day a female at work, Cindy, who was just trying to fit in and be one of the gang, so to speak.
She did like I and the other males had done.
Jim made a joking comment and Cindy Sprayed Jim with a water hose. A small wrestling match ensued and we all laughed.
After we ribbed Jim about a girl kicking his ass etc, he said " Did you see that? She wants me. She was throwing herself at me!"
and he was serious about this.
HE TRULY believed because Cindy did EXACTLY like we guys had done countless times, that she must want to have sex with him...
I even asked Jim, "SO when I sprayed you with the water hose and threw you out the door, I wanted to have sex with you?"
His reply; " NO! You're a guy, we do things like that for fun. But a girl doing that is her showing the guy she wants him."

Now why did i tell this story?
PEOPLE PERCEIVE THINGS DIFFERENTLY.
I see something one way, someone else looks at the same exact thing, and sees it in a totally different way.

Modeling nude, can be perceived differently.
The model, wants to create art.
ME, I see a model that is nude, as a form of art I want to transform into something even more beautiful, in my photographs.
A different guy can think " She wants me, shes undressing, she's practically throwing herself at me..."
The only way to make sure that everyone involved understands something, for what it is, is to explain it so there is no doubt.

ABSOLUTELY NOT.
It is imperative here above ALL places that it is understood that getting undressed is NOT an invitation. It should not need to be spelt out. Anyone that does it without invitation in any circumstances is commiting a sexual assault. The whole idea of dressing provocatively or being naked or semi naked is asking for it is abhorrent ESPECIALLY here. Any photographer should take it that you do not cross that line. Even if invited you are placing yourself in a precarious situation and would be advised against it just as in any other professional situation eg doctor- patient.

MB Jen B wrote:
edit upfront...You are 19 years old now? Were you in college at 16? GoGo dancing at a club underage?

What? Are you saying you were raped with drugged drinks and that the court was involved and things eventually worked out??

What?

Wait...WHAT???!

Have you sought out professional help for PTSD? Nothing about your post sounds easily answerable in a random forum post.

I wish you the best and highly encourage you to seek professional help.

Jen
p.s. and if this was a well regarded photographer "and everything turned out okay" then a lot of things do not add up.

Another thing I would like to see clarified: The club sued the photographer? Not a state prosecutor?

If this pro photographer with physical address and writing invoices, did drug not one but an entire group of clients and posted it in the internet to self-incriminate himself, such story would be in the news by now, is it?

If this was known by the whole group of dancers, university, the club and even went to court with lawyers and a judge, it wouldn't be too private, this must have been all over the news... is it? What do you mean by things got worked out? He got away with community service? What was the final result for him?

Locutus wrote:

okay i'm going to have to say, yes, that's to touchy...

More importantly what did you learn from your experience?

And lastly, in case it didn't occur to you, express in writing, UP FRONT, when anyone first contacts you, (or even before anyone contacts you, by putting it in your profile and bio)
that you are NOT to be touched, grabbed poked at, etc etc etc.

Or..., sexually assaulted?!

Locutus wrote:

Ya you just can't be too careful now-a-days.
I like keeping models at ease by not giving them anything to be suspicious about.
As for drinks and food for a long day shoot that is a small affair, I have the model meet us, my wife, makeup artist and i, at a supermarket or convenience store. We then go inside I buy the things she wants. And then we are off to the location.

Well, the drugging incident was well over 20+ years ago, probably close to 25. That kind of stuff is not new. Perhaps the internet makes it appear that way. I eat frequently and I am picky so it's just a habit for me to bring water and snacks everywhere I go. It's thoughtful of you just the same.

Herman Surkis wrote:

Which is why, despite it not being green, I always offer bottled water, and a brand new pack of cookies.

Oh heck, I recycle all my bottles, cans, etc. Did someone say cookies?

MB Jen B wrote:

edit upfront...You are 19 years old now? Were you in college at 16? GoGo dancing at a club underage?

What? Are you saying you were raped with drugged drinks and that the court was involved and things eventually worked out??

What?

Wait...WHAT???!

Have you sought out professional help for PTSD? Nothing about your post sounds easily answerable in a random forum post.

I wish you the best and highly encourage you to seek professional help.

Jen
p.s. and if this was a well regarded photographer "and everything turned out okay" then a lot of things do not add up.

All of what you just said is why I chose not to make any significant comment on the original post. I just didn't have the balls to call it out when I first read it
...but yeah....

Locutus wrote:

okay i'm going to have to say, yes, that's to touchy...

More importantly what did you learn from your experience?

And lastly, in case it didn't occur to you, express in writing, UP FRONT, when anyone first contacts you, (or even before anyone contacts you, by putting it in your profile and bio)
that you are NOT to be touched, grabbed poked at, etc etc etc.

A: you want to know what she learned from being raped?
B: you want to know what she learned from being raped?

I don't think you should have to instruct people not to spike your drink and have sex with your unconscious body.

MB Jen B wrote:

edit upfront...You are 19 years old now? Were you in college at 16? GoGo dancing at a club underage?

What? Are you saying you were raped with drugged drinks and that the court was involved and things eventually worked out??

What?

Wait...WHAT???!

Have you sought out professional help for PTSD? Nothing about your post sounds easily answerable in a random forum post.

I wish you the best and highly encourage you to seek professional help.

Jen
p.s. and if this was a well regarded photographer "and everything turned out okay" then a lot of things do not add up.

I would think "everything work end out ok" equals he went to jail

Joseph William  wrote:

Locutus wrote:
I don't think you should have to instruct people not to spike your drink and have sex with your unconscious body.

Yeah, and that.

Does a baker have to tell customers to not try to rape her...?....? Right.

calliecalypso wrote:
I'm curious as to what to do when a photographer gets a little too touchy-feely/personal/intimate. It's weird because they do great work, have great references, and previously it's all professional. But then things get, well, weird. They'd want more. They'd start "posing" me in ways that feel off. Ask odd questions, etc. I love the work they do and don't want to have my reputation potentially shot by saying anything, especially publicly since they are well known.

OP: 1. Be verbal of your limits as others have mentioned. If you are not comfortable, say something. If they continue, simply pack up your things and leave. Everyone has a different definition of comfort levels out there too. One of the important things that you can do even prior to shooting is to check references of whomever you are going to be working with even if you think that they are well known. It does not hurt because it helps you to get an idea of how they might work, and what you are comfortable with prior to going into a shoot. Also, communication prior to a shoot is a good thing with whomever you are working with. A lot of folks that may be inappropriate out there will probably be so in commentary in e-mail/phone etc before hand also. Just another way to check before you get into a situation that you may not be comfortable with. 

calliecalypso wrote:
And here's an all out bad experience I had years ago (Trigger warning-):

When I was in college I worked as a gogo dancer. The club booked a shoot with the dancers to use for ads and their website. The photog was a little creepy and decided to pick me and a couple other models for "Special" photos after he did the ones the club wanted. He gave us drinks which turned out to be spiked with roofies. We blacked out and found out later he took pictures of him raping us and sent those images to rape-themed porn sites. I got in trouble with my college and the club got in trouble. Things eventually got straightened out and the club sued the hell out of the guy. But it was awful.  The club was very legit and professional and the owner felt like crap because they had no idea. The photographer did work for many businesses and came off as highly professional with a great portfolio and everything.

I am sorry that happened to you. There is no excuse in the world for someone like that who does something like that to those that they work with. That is good that the club went after the photographer, but it unfortunately does not sound like it would prevent him from getting into a different circumstance. In this case, you should talk to your local law enforcement right away. Like Jen mentioned too, there are people out there to talk to about this too. Do not hesitate to reach out to them.

calliecalypso wrote:
And finally, is it okay to warn other models about photographers you had weird or even bad experiences with or let them go on ahead and see what happens?

On MM, generally you can only note ones that you warn against working with on your profile page. Be careful with the amount of details that you share though because MM considers it "outing" to do that. You can however put something on there with their MM number and name saying "people I do not suggest working with (contact me in a PM for details)".

Over all though, check your references (3-4 others that someone has worked with prior is a good min. rule of thumb), google people you are going to be working with..etc. Good luck!

Joseph William  wrote:
I don't think you should have to instruct people not to spike your drink and have sex with your unconscious body.

You'd think so wouldn't you?
And yet, we have cases where that seems to have been the exact thing needed
(instruction to not do so)

Magda Kulpinska wrote:
Yeah, and that.

Does a baker have to tell customers to not try to rape her...?....? Right.

hahahaha  OKAYYYYYY

Locutus wrote:

You'd think so wouldn't you?
And yet, we have cases where that seems to have been the exact thing needed
(instruction to not do so)

Is there some kind of national do not rape list? Can women opt out of getting raped? 

I am pretty sure that our society has decided that drugging people so you can have sex with them is universally criminal behavior.  Havering a no rape clause in your contract seems a bit redundant.

J Jessica wrote:
A photographer once told me about his strong belief in other worlds and that we, as Earthlings, are being watched by a higher society of peaceful, yet intelligent, martians.

We call them "Forum Moderators"

Locutus wrote:
You'd think so wouldn't you?
And yet, we have cases where that seems to have been the exact thing needed
(instruction to not do so)

Joseph William  wrote:
Is there some kind of national do not rape list? Can women opt out of getting raped? 

I am pretty sure that our society has decided that drugging people so you can have sex with them is universally criminal behavior.  Havering a no rape clause in your contract seems a bit redundant.

WOW JOE you're so right.
Hey models, dont say anything, joe has it all figured out. he's pretty sure It's universal....so dont be redundant... okie dokie (end drippingly sarcastic reply)

Joey, the advice isn't for you.
It's for the models who have the odd shit done to them.
You liking it or disliking the advice matters not.

also you mentioned a non rape clause?
Did this post strike some sort of nerve that caused you to think of a clause that states do not rape, and that in turn made you angry?? Is there something you're hiding?

hehehe happy father's day Joe.

calliecalypso wrote:
spiked with roofies. We blacked out
he took pictures of him raping us
sent those images to rape-themed porn sites.

Locutus wrote:
okay i'm going to have to say, yes, that's to touchy...

More importantly, did you learn from your experience? (Which is explained rather oddly and sheds doubt on the whole episode)

And lastly, in case it didn't occur to you, express in writing, UP FRONT, when anyone first contacts you, (or even before anyone contacts you, by putting it in your profile and bio)
that you are NOT to be touched, grabbed poked at, etc etc etc.

I think our miss understanding happened here, I missed your parenthetical where you imply that you don't believe the drugging and raping really occurred.  So your advise is for to keep people from grabbing tits etc. Wile posing people or general types of behavior that could be maybe allowable.

Joseph William  wrote:
I don't think you should have to instruct people not to spike your drink and have sex with your unconscious body.

Here I take offense at asking a person what she learned from getting raped

Locutus wrote:
You'd think so wouldn't you?
And yet, we have cases where that seems to have been the exact thing needed
(instruction to not do so)

I think our miss understanding comes from this, I have been referring specifically to the OP where she says that a horrific thing happened (a dude drugged her and raped her). You are giving advice for avoiding miss understandings.

Locutus wrote:
You'd think so wouldn't you?
And yet, we have cases where that seems to have been the exact thing needed
(instruction to not do so)

You seem to be implying that written instructions to the photographer will prevent rape.  (Or at least that is how I interpreted your statement)

So I got snarky

Joseph William  wrote:
Is there some kind of national do not rape list? Can women opt out of getting raped? 

I am pretty sure that our society has decided that drugging people so you can have sex with them is universally criminal behavior.  Havering a no rape clause in your contract seems a bit redundant.

Locutus wrote:

Locutus wrote:
You'd think so wouldn't you?
And yet, we have cases where that seems to have been the exact thing needed
(instruction to not do so)

WOW JOE you're so right.
Hey models, dont say anything, joe has it all figured out. he's pretty sure It's universal....so dont be redundant... okie dokie (end drippingly sarcastic reply)

Joey, the advice isn't for you.
It's for the models who have the odd shit done to them.
You liking it or disliking the advice matters not.

also you mentioned a non rape clause?
Did this post strike some sort of nerve that caused you to think of a clause that states do not rape, and that in turn made you angry?? Is there something you're hiding?

hehehe happy father's day Joe.

My reading of what you wrote was that you repeatedly suggested that models just specify that they don't want to be raped, that made me angry.  People should not have to say "please don't rape me"

J Jessica wrote:
A photographer once told me about his strong belief in other worlds and that we, as Earthlings, are being watched by a higher society of peaceful, yet intelligent, martians.

Did he mention the fleshy people vs non-fleshy people?

ha

Joseph William  wrote:

calliecalypso wrote:
spiked with roofies. We blacked out
he took pictures of him raping us
sent those images to rape-themed porn sites.

Locutus wrote:
okay i'm going to have to say, yes, that's to touchy...

More importantly, did you learn from your experience? (Which is explained rather oddly and sheds doubt on the whole episode)

And lastly, in case it didn't occur to you, express in writing, UP FRONT, when anyone first contacts you, (or even before anyone contacts you, by putting it in your profile and bio)
that you are NOT to be touched, grabbed poked at, etc etc etc.

I think our miss understanding happened here, I missed your parenthetical where you imply that you don't believe the drugging and raping really occurred.  So your advise is for to keep people from grabbing tits etc. Wile posing people or general types of behavior that could be maybe allowable.

Joseph William  wrote:
I don't think you should have to instruct people not to spike your drink and have sex with your unconscious body.

Here I take offense at asking a person what she learned from getting raped

Locutus wrote:
You'd think so wouldn't you?
And yet, we have cases where that seems to have been the exact thing needed
(instruction to not do so)

I think our miss understanding comes from this, I have been referring specifically to the OP where she says that a horrific thing happened (a dude drugged her and raped her). You are giving advice for avoiding miss understandings.

Locutus wrote:
You'd think so wouldn't you?
And yet, we have cases where that seems to have been the exact thing needed
(instruction to not do so)

You seem to be implying that written instructions to the photographer will prevent rape.  (Or at least that is how I interpreted your statement)

So I got snarky


My reading of what you wrote was that you repeatedly suggested that models just specify that they don't want to be raped, that made me angry.  People should not have to say "please don't rape me"

Yep! Might as well Put in the clause Murder just in case. although it wont do any good after the fact

Joseph William  wrote:
---really long rebuttal ----

AHHHH well said and awesome explanation, thank you.
But, my reply to her asking;

calliecalypso wrote:
I'm curious as to what to do when a photographer gets a little too touchy

is

Locutus wrote:
express in writing, UP FRONT, when anyone first contacts you, (or even before anyone contacts you, by putting it in your profile and bio)
that you are NOT to be touched, grabbed poked at, etc etc etc.

now, I assume, this won't stop a rapist, or a murderer.
But it could stop the touchy feely folks (who possibly think they can touch and feel because a model gets naked) from touching and feeling.
I'll fix the above post of mine and explain it in a little more detail.

calliecalypso wrote:
He gave us drinks which turned out to be spiked with roofies. We blacked out and found out later he took pictures of him raping us and sent those images to rape-themed porn sites.

???

Did he go to prison??? 



*confused...*