Alabaster Crowley wrote:
iS ThIS thREAD sTiLl GoINg oN

The middle-aged men will keep posting as long as the young women keep replying.

Shiva Photo wrote:
Younger Gen X can master new technology  faster than the old geezers

If you think photography is about technology, you'll never master it.

AJScalzitti wrote:

Exactly how many do you think are doing that with female models, you must not read that forum much

I actually read that forum a lot which is why I said that a lot of people would be flat out lying in this thread.

Outside of the people that are getting paid to do a job (which again is a very small part of the people on MM) there are an awful lot of old photographers here that are paying to take pictures of young girls.

It is very clear that MM forum posts views do not equal reality beyond the minds of the people expounding the various ideas.

Alabaster Crowley wrote:
iS ThIS thREAD sTiLl GoINg oN

I started it and I will end it...

Controversial topics have a perpetual life.. I think every conceivable view point has been expressed ad nauseum..

As with all topics.. many respondents will agree to disagree..and the silent majority.. will standby and nod in agreement or shake their head in disagreement.

Shiva Photo wrote:
A random unscientific survey conducted with Models seem to put the average age of other MM male photographer they have worked with, between 40 and 55

Some of them suggested that a middle age yearning (crisis?) to be with young females are a driving force for them to be photographers.

WisconsinArt wrote:
Well, that explains why a significant number of young models are flakes. :p

You don't see many young photographers because they don't have the experience or the means to afford professional grade equipment to be a photographer.

I don't think that the small amount of young (20's, 30's) internet hobbyist photographers on the various sites has anything to do with not having experience or not being able to afford equipment. I think the reason is that most young men in that age group are able to get out and socialize/spend time with attractive young females. Middle aged men (and beyond)… not so much (unless of course you are heavy in the wallet ha ha). So… for the middle aged (and beyond) men who want to enjoy the company of attractive young women there are a couple choices (that I can think of). Both involve payment, but only one involves having a camera and a 'photographer' profile on the internet. That being said, for the middle aged (and beyond) pro photographer who has spent a career honing his craft and suffering the (most often) financial instability that comes with choosing the life of an artist rather than being a cog in the corporate machine, one of the well deserved perks of the profession is to be able to mingle with attractive young female models.

Jerry D wrote:
What is it other than immaturity that automatically assumes mature, older, experienced photographers are "creepy or creepers?"

+1,000

Well said!

Shiva Photo wrote:
A honest answer and probably the most appropriate one.

whoops, quoted the wrong person!

Nico Simon Princely wrote:

+1
Females 16 to 20 are by nature the best choice for the the offspring to survive.

Actually women are more fertile at 25 than at 18... biologically the teens are not the best time for reproducing because the woman is still growing.

Nico Simon Princely wrote:

+1
Females 16 to 20 are by nature the best choice for the the offspring to survive.

PS Did you know that 50% of a 16 yr old's menstrual cycles occur without ovulation? ie they do not release an egg! This is because physically, their bodies aren't ready yet. Also stats show that "babies born to teenage mothers are more likely to die in the first year of life compared with babies born to mothers older than 20 years of age". They are also more likely to have a lower birth weight and are more likely to have complications. Plus "pelvic bones do not reach their maximum size until about the age of 18; therefore, the pelvis of the teenage mother may not have grown enough to allow vaginal delivery of a normal-size baby". This is not to say that they can't have healthy babies, but the risk factor is higher. Fertility tends to peak around 25 and remains high until around 33/34. I do think it's a little creepy to be primarily attracted to teenagers unless you're a teenager yourself, though you're entitled to your opinion... as essentially they are people who haven't finished puberty yet.

Nico Simon Princely wrote:
Females 16 to 20 are by nature the best choice for the the offspring to survive. .

and, sorry to press the point, but I thought I'd back this up with a link:
"Worldwide, complications in pregnancy are the “number one killer” of girls and young women aged 15-19, the report says, adding that 50,000 teenage girls and young women die during pregnancy and childbirth every year, in many cases because their bodies are not ready to bear children. Babies born to young mothers are also at greater risk: each year about 1 million babies born to adolescent girls die before their first birthday. In developing countries, if a mother is under 18, her baby’s chance of dying during the first year of life is 60% higher than a baby born to a mother older than 19.Girls under 18 are reportedly more likely to give birth to premature babies and have complications during labour. Their bodies are not physically ready for childbirth and their pelvises are smaller, so they are more prone to suffer obstructed labour."
Full article at: http://www.nhs.uk/news/2012/06june/Page … ncern.aspx

Shiva Photo wrote:
A random unscientific survey conducted with Models seem to put the average age of other MM male photographer they have worked with, between 40 and 55

Some of them suggested that a middle age yearning (crisis?) to be with young females are a driving force for them to be photographers.

Photographers agree ? If not what is the primary motive to shoot (TF/Unpaid) young female models.

Honesty appreciated.

I work mostly with women close to my age, the male models I've worked with are also closer to my age (26 years). Depending on the art concept I'm shooting it may require a younger mode (for innocence) or older (wisdom) but for the most part I use someone 25-27.

Clients of all ages are welcome however.

Edit: As I grow older the age range I work with might stick with me as I mature and want to express certain viewpoints or messages that resonate with me and age is very much an influence representing years past. Youth has always said "innocence" in my artistic viewpoint and that might or might not change. 30-40 is prime age in my mind and I'm excited to see what perspectives open up for me and the people I'll be working with. 60+ is a wise stage in the artistic viewpoint that is mine but that is subject to change when I reach that age and have a first person understanding.

Age has happened and is happening and - not to sound completely smitten with my work and ridiculous - I am friggin' excited! I am going to look fiiiiiine with silver hair

Shiva Photo wrote:
A random unscientific survey conducted with Models seem to put the average age of other MM male photographer they have worked with, between 40 and 55

Some of them suggested that a middle age yearning (crisis?) to be with young females are a driving force for them to be photographers.

Photographers agree ? If not what is the primary motive to shoot (TF/Unpaid) young female models.

Honesty appreciated.

Jennifer Haggerty wrote:
I work mostly with women close to my age, the male models I've worked with are also closer to my age (26 years). Depending on the art concept I'm shooting it may require a younger mode (for innocence) or older (wisdom) but for the most part I use someone 25-27.

Clients of all ages are welcome however.

Edit: As I grow older the age range I work with might stick with me as I mature and want to express certain viewpoints or messages that resonate with me and age is very much an influence representing years past. Youth has always said "innocence" in my artistic viewpoint and that might or might not change. 30-40 is prime age in my mind and I'm excited to see what perspectives open up for me and the people I'll be working with. 60+ is a wise stage in the artistic viewpoint that is mine but that is subject to change when I reach that age and have a first person understanding.

Age has happened and is happening and - not to sound completely smitten with my work and ridiculous - I am friggin' excited! I am going to look fiiiiiine with silver hair

The OP specifically references male photographers. The dynamic with female photographers may indeed be different.

Mac Intosh wrote:
The OP specifically references male photographers. The dynamic with female photographers may indeed be different.

True, thanks for calling my oversight.

Not to take over the thread and I'm not sure if it calls for a new one. There are quite a few photographers in NY that are female and shoot suggestive imagery of young females. I'm curious to hear their input.

S W I N S K E Y wrote:
I have been driving Corvettes and photographing beautiful young women since i was 16 years old. I guess that's when i started my mid-life crisis.

I love this

*Changed to fit how I roll

I have been playing music and digging beautiful young men since i was 16 years old. I guess that's when I started my mid-life crisis.

*make that 15

S W I N S K E Y wrote:
I have been driving Corvettes and photographing beautiful young women since i was 16 years old. I guess that's when i started my mid-life crisis.

No just means that you did not feel a need to grow past that phase so you are still at the same place you were when you were 16

Mac Intosh wrote:
I don't think that the small amount of young (20's, 30's) internet hobbyist photographers on the various sites has anything to do with not having experience or not being able to afford equipment. I think the reason is that most young men in that age group are able to get out and socialize/spend time with attractive young females. Middle aged men (and beyond)… not so much (unless of course you are heavy in the wallet ha ha). So… for the middle aged (and beyond) men who want to enjoy the company of attractive young women there are a couple choices (that I can think of). Both involve payment, but only one involves having a camera and a 'photographer' profile on the internet. That being said, for the middle aged (and beyond) pro photographer who has spent a career honing his craft and suffering the (most often) financial instability that comes with choosing the life of an artist rather than being a cog in the corporate machine, one of the well deserved perks of the profession is to be able to mingle with attractive young female models.

Interesting how so many who have yet to reach and experience my age are such experts on my life and what is going through my mind. I'm so glad you are here to explain this for me! If it hadn't been for you experts setting me straight, I would have thought I had an interesting fulfilling life.

I thought the only reason I didn't photograph more was because I was so busy with my running and bicycling groups, community activities and time I like to spend with my wife. Now I found out I'm just a pathetic has-been.

Strangely enough, I've never had to pay for a model to shoot with me. TFCD seems to be OK. I even have women paying me to shoot them! They must REALLY feel sorry for me!

I'm glad you set me straight on my sorry state of affairs! I am going to have to re-assess my pitiful state of affairs. Or maybe I will continue to let those women feel sorry for me a little longer...

Jerry D wrote:
What is it other than immaturity that automatically assumes mature, older, experienced photographers are "creepy or creepers?"

I would suppose that it is ignorance of the real world, and the top talents working in it.

Shiva Photo wrote:
A random unscientific survey conducted with Models seem to put the average age of other MM male photographer they have worked with, between 40 and 55

Some of them suggested that a middle age yearning (crisis?) to be with young females are a driving force for them to be photographers.

Photographers agree ? If not what is the primary motive to shoot (TF/Unpaid) young female models.

Honesty appreciated.
EDIT
Photographers attending group shoots what is your observation.

I would certainly agree that your "survey" is random and unscientific.

Ruby Red UK wrote:

PS Did you know that 50% of a 16 yr old's menstrual cycles occur without ovulation? ie they do not release an egg! This is because physically, their bodies aren't ready yet. Also stats show that "babies born to teenage mothers are more likely to die in the first year of life compared with babies born to mothers older than 20 years of age". They are also more likely to have a lower birth weight and are more likely to have complications. Plus "pelvic bones do not reach their maximum size until about the age of 18; therefore, the pelvis of the teenage mother may not have grown enough to allow vaginal delivery of a normal-size baby". This is not to say that they can't have healthy babies, but the risk factor is higher. Fertility tends to peak around 25 and remains high until around 33/34. I do think it's a little creepy to be primarily attracted to teenagers unless you're a teenager yourself, though you're entitled to your opinion... as essentially they are people who haven't finished puberty yet.

Interesting info...but completely off-topic.

Shiva Photo wrote:
A random unscientific survey conducted with Models seem to put the average age of other MM male photographer they have worked with, between 40 and 55

Some of them suggested that a middle age yearning (crisis?) to be with young females are a driving force for them to be photographers.

Photographers agree ? If not what is the primary motive to shoot (TF/Unpaid) young female models.

Honesty appreciated.
EDIT
Photographers attending group shoots what is your observation.

Did my first nude shoot when I was 19.  My model was 18 (and she was modeling professionally).  I'd been shooting seriously since I was 15 (i.e.: charging and getting money for some of my work).   I've been shooting ever since then.  I'm now 57.

Yep, most of my art nude models are in the age ranges of 18-30.  Most.  One of my favorite models is over 30, another over 45.  I've been trying to get a professional rock climber (who is 44) to pose for me....not sure it's going to happen but she hasn't said "no" we just haven't worked out dates and logistics yet.

Yep, I suspect that most of the photographers are probably white males over 40 (and maybe over 50)...that's just a guess.  But I suspect that if you look, most of the models on here are females under 30, especially those willing to pose nude.  But if you were to look at a host of different types of genres for serious photographers (photojournalism, product photography, fashion, architecture, etc.) a high percentage will be male and a high percentage will be older.  I suspect that if you get in to wedding and portraiture genres, there will be a higher percentage of women vs. the numbers compared to other fields...a bit more equal.  But again, not younger (all of the wedding shooters I know are over 40 except for one guy who's 31 and he's been struggling  with his business from the git-go).

Are there some photographers who are aging white males who want to hang around naked, nubile, young females and perhaps hope to "get lucky"?  Undoubtedly.  But I doubt that explains the demographics (especially for people who do this seriously or as a career).   I think the more basic explanation is this:  if you aren't doing this as a full-time business, it's an expensive hobby.  How many pilots do you know who aren't doing this as a living or aren't in the military?  Most I know are in their 40's and 50's...b/c aviation on your own dime is fricking expensive.  Ditto with serious photography for anyone who doesn't do this as their day job....you need to have established a career or be retired or be making enough money to afford this.

Additionally, if you look at the guys who do this for a living, you'll find that very few shoot fashion/glamour/nudes full time.  They...shoot weddings...and do art nudes also.  Or they shoot sports...and do glamour nudes also.  So would that mean that an aging sports shooter is just trying to recapture his young and is living vicariously through the athletic events he shoots?   Or that a wedding photographer wants to get married?  I starting doing photojournalism work (as a stringer) when I was 18 (local sports) and full-time when I was 21 and went to El Salvador during their Civil War in the 80's.  I retired from photojournalism when I was 35 after Bosnia.  Most of the troops and soldiers I was shooting were in their teens or early twenties--does that make a statement about me that I was photographing them when I was 35?

Ed

afplcc-Glamour wrote:
Are there some photographers who are aging white males who want to hang around naked, nubile, young females and perhaps hope to "get lucky"?  Undoubtedly.

Additionally, if you look at the guys who do this for a living, you'll find that very few shoot fashion/glamour/nudes .

Ed

Weddings, parties etc., put food on the table. Glamour, boudoir is food for imagination

Shiva Photo wrote:
...a middle age yearning (crisis?) to be with young females are a driving force for them to be photographers...

What would you suggest would be the driving force for a young photographer with a well paid job in another industry and a wife and young family to spend his leisure time shooting models?

Shiva Photo wrote:
Weddings, parties etc., put food on the table. Glamour, boudoir is food for imagination

Or in my case, portraits/headshots/cosplay/related pay, what I shoot here scratches an itch that I can't leave alone.

Nikonshooter wrote:
Heck I'm only 24 years old. However that caused some possible shoots to get canceled because I'm told I'm too young or just a kid.

This is a good point that hasn't been brought up yet. I'm 34 and don't have that problem but as a young person in the business it can be challenging to make your way up. I remember all too well being the youngest shooter on an assignment, I work mostly in news. It gets betters with time, all you have to worry about is paying the bills the rest comes in time.

As your portfolio grows it will probably be easier. It might be easier to fill out your portfolio with friends and friends of friends before getting more MM shoots together. Regardless, I wish you luck.

Shiva Photo wrote:

On the flip side learning skills decline with age. Younger Gen X can master new technology  faster than the old geezers

You're right, young people know how to master high tech reflectors, flags, and diffusors than the old geezers do.....

This follow up post pretty much proves you have been trolling or you have some kind of chip on your shoulder.

S W I N S K E Y wrote:
I have been driving Corvettes and photographing beautiful young women since i was 16 years old. I guess that's when i started my mid-life crisis.

I started when I was 23.   

I have photographed models up to 48 years old.