JJMiller wrote:
Some quick numbers, female models in the US, active within 14 days, that will shoot nude:

age 20-25: 3492 (both nude/non nude 17,222)
age 26-31: 2411 (both nude/non nude 8,667)
age 32-40: 897 (both nude/non nude 2,394)
age 41-50: 288 (both nude/non nude 588)

The total number of models here 20-25 is more than 26-50. Again, it's a numbers game.

it seems like 24-25 is the more common age range after a quick look, I'm sure one could graph this out over a year if they were so inclined or do a more scientific grouping.

AJScalzitti wrote:
WTH does shoot nude have to do with anything?

What I got from that is there are almost 10 times the number of 41-50 models shooting nude in the 20-25 range. This means that if one is interested in shooting nude models, there is a far better chance of getting someone who is 20-25 because of sheer numbers if no other reason.  Yes, some models only shoot with clothes on (which is fine), but there are almost 17,000 more 20-25 than 41-50 models.

In other words, it's easier to find younger models. One can say a "middle aged" male photographer is having a crisis but if these numbers are accurate (I can't see why they would be deliberately skewed by the poster), one wouldn't shoot very much at all if they only wanted models who were 41-50.

TOTP!!

George Silvaney wrote:
Prime years for a fashion or glam model are limited. Just as with an athlete.
A photographer's skill set grows, and benefits from age.

Dont forget technology.

Younger men have HARDWARE, older men must be content with SOFTWARE
(Pun intended)

udor wrote:

Yup... that's how I make a living... fully clothed!   

And I am good with that

JadeDRed wrote:
People get to a certain point in their life where they are comfortable and have the time and money to take up hobbies. For a lot of people that is middle age.

A lot of men like gadgets and pretty ladies. Photography can cover both of these.

I take umbrage at your last sentance.

They are not gadgets....they are tools.

Shiva Photo wrote:
If not what is the primary motive to shoot (TF/Unpaid) young female models.

Usually young female models look better than old female models.

Sometimes they even look better than old male photographers.

;-)

The Grand Artist wrote:
Do you really expect to get an honest answer from most here? 

Sure there are a lot of pros that are just doing their job but they are definitely going to be the minority when it comes to this topic. The number of these middle aged photographers (if heterosexual) who would treat a male model exactly the same way as they treat female models is going to be even lower.

I wonder how many of these old guys are paying male models their rate, giving them images, and making sure they have gas money to get home safely.

I stopped reading the thread at this post because it won't get any more honest than this.

Shiva Photo wrote:

So, with the declining birth rate female models may also be declining and baby boomers disproportionately increasing.

Bottom line more middle age photographers chasing fewer younger models. Time to allow special immigration quota for a young female exotic models.

Maybe the middle age congressmen may even pass the bill.

Yes, we should give special work visas for those who we need to model! 

Tim Griffiths wrote:
art..blah blah  light and shadow...blah blah....capture something of the human condition....blah....who the fuck is that old guy...oh it's me...blah blah, the energy of youth,, blah blah mind you, they don't half talk some crap... good job they've got tits...blah blah..oh what's the fucking point, I'm never going to take a decent photograph and I sure as hell am not going to shag Miss Chipping Sodbury over there..blah,blah .of course I'm mostly conceptual these days Ruth...still, lose the pants anyway..

You OWN the interwebzz!!!!

For the sake of argument, let's make all the middle aged photographers and young models LEAVE MM.

Pretty much a ghost town, done deal, gone like Elvis.

OP is yet another meaningless post about nothing, a grain of sand in a huge beach.

Shiva Photo wrote:
A random unscientific survey conducted with Models seem to put the average age of other MM male photographer they have worked with, between 40 and 55

Some of them suggested that a middle age yearning (crisis?) to be with young females are a driving force for them to be photographers.

Photographers agree ? If not what is the primary motive to shoot (TF/Unpaid) young female models.

Honesty appreciated.
EDIT
Photographers attending group shoots what is your observation.

I'm 42 but I've been an artist since the age of 4. Probably because that was the age I first got a grip on something to mark the walls with. Here nor there, I illustrated my first nude studies and coital illustrations when I was 10; no exaggeration. The human form has always been a point of fascination with me. I picked up photography for my illustration and painting studies in middle school, and then it took over as my front-flag medium to work with in 2006 as my primary medium. That's also when I started working with living nudes for my work. So I was 34 when I made that transition.

There are A LOT of older males in my area who push being photographers just to work with young female models. I've photographed non-nudes/nudes ranging in ages from 18 to 62. For a while the average age of my subjects was from 35 to 45. But this is primarily because the younger women in my area are afraid of their own nudity.

I believe what sets apart the true artists from the aging GWC's is that the artist is not only keenly aware of those intimate parts of their subjects' forms, but may well be more interested in the other details of the subjects' bodies, i.e.: skeletal display, musculature, skin tones and texture. The intimate bits just happen to be there as well. Shooting a form always comes with the choice of photographing the form with gender ambiguity or literally identified.

I know I've spun off on a tangent here, but the point is that there's a mentality which separates the middle-age-crisis GWC's, despite their skill level, from the gentlemen who are truly emotionally and mentally enveloped in creating the work they create.

CBAPhoto wrote:
I'm 42 but I've been an artist since the age of 4. Probably because that was the age I first got a grip on something to mark the walls with. Here nor there, I illustrated my first nude studies and coital illustrations when I was 10; no exaggeration.

I'm impressed, CBAPhoto-

An artist at 4, and your first "coital illustrations when you were 10?"

Care to share with us what "coital illustrations" are?

You have one image in your Mayhem portfolio.

Still, thanks for your valued input.

You've made this a better place.

RBD

R Bruce Duncan wrote:

I'm impressed, CBAPhoto-

An artist at 4, and your first "coital illustrations when you were 10?"

Care to share with us what "coital illustrations" are?

You have one image in your Mayhem portfolio.

Still, thanks for your valued input.

You've made this a better place.

RBD

Well said, Sir Bruce!

R Bruce Duncan wrote:

I'm impressed, CBAPhoto-

An artist at 4, and your first "coital illustrations when you were 10?"

Care to share with us what "coital illustrations" are?

You have one image in your Mayhem portfolio.

Still, thanks for your valued input.

You've made this a better place.

RBD

"Coital illustrations." I was being cute with my wording. I knew the mechanics of sex at that age. Not sure why looking back. The illustrations, though technically correct, were still something more crude than anything else. Knowing the mechanics definitely does NOT mean one knows all the other aspects. So in those aspects the illustrations were remedial at best.

Yes. I only have one photo here. I don't pay for a website just so I can post the photos on my website everywhere else.

CBAPhoto wrote:

I'm 42 but I've been an artist since the age of 4. Probably because that was the age I first got a grip on something to mark the walls with. Here nor there, I illustrated my first nude studies and coital illustrations when I was 10; no exaggeration. The human form has always been a point of fascination with me. I picked up photography for my illustration and painting studies in middle school, and then it took over as my front-flag medium to work with in 2006 as my primary medium. That's also when I started working with living nudes for my work. So I was 34 when I made that transition.

Is that supposed to impress anyone?

P I X I E wrote:

Is that supposed to impress anyone?

I don't recall anyone in the thread asking to be impressed, so no. It was NOT supposed to impress anyone. Thank you for playing along.

P I X I E wrote:

Is that supposed to impress anyone?

CBAPhoto wrote:

Yes. I only have one photo here. I don't pay for a website just so I can post the photos on my website everywhere else.

Yes but one photo is against the rules. Full stop.

Un deux trois  wrote:

Yes but one photo is against the rules. Full stop.

So is attacking the person and not their ideas:

- Respond to the ideas being expressed, not the person expressing them.

Bringing up the contents of his mm portfolio to dismiss him, especially when a quick click on the provided website will provide tons of images by the individual, is certainly against the rules.

R Bruce Duncan wrote:
Well, shiva...

I'm mystified.

Yep, I'll be 66 in two months.

And I'm pretty happy with the images I'm making now.

Lest there be any question, I've been making images for a very long time.

Decades before digital.

Here's an essay I wrote... well , who knows when?

A while back.

http://www.acecam.com/magazine/robert-bruce-duncan.html

My question, shiva--and I deserve an answer--is what are you doing here?

Other than trolling?

Personally, I will never leave Santa Barbara, and wouldn't think of moving to Smell L, even to make images with the most beautiful women in the world.

For any client you could imagine.

Why are you trolling the Mayhem, when you could be shooting major market agency girls for those on your client list?

Care to pony up?

RBD

And... as a published writer with a degree in English, I appreciate delicious ambiguity.  I especially liked... "Young men have hardware."

Well done.

Care to share what this means?

If you must know, an agency director told me years--make it decades--ago that "...you don't make yourself look good by making others look bad."

Oh well.

Okay, I'll say it.

Yours--this one--is the kind of post that makes the Mayhem what it is.

Tant pis.

+ so well said, since when is there an "appropriate" age of a photographer to make models feel comfortable, perhaps it takes time to develop a craft or maybe even there's a "yearning" just for art and to be a photographer and nothing more, pointless ignorant troll threads like this under the guise of a model/photographer/mua/etc having an innocent discussion are getting tiresome and dilute the quality of this site.
I suppose Helmut Newton took beautiful photographs to be around "hot chicks", lol

R Bruce Duncan wrote:

I'm impressed, CBAPhoto-

An artist at 4, and your first "coital illustrations when you were 10?"

Care to share with us what "coital illustrations" are?

You have one image in your Mayhem portfolio.

RBD

Actually, the story of CBAP Photo is true and proof can be found on the internet

http://cdn.smosh.com/sites/default/file … nny-16.jpg

Shiva Photo wrote:
A random unscientific survey conducted with Models seem to put the average age of other MM male photographer they have worked with, between 40 and 55

Some of them suggested that a middle age yearning (crisis?) to be with young females are a driving force for them to be photographers.

Photographers agree ? If not what is the primary motive to shoot (TF/Unpaid) young female models.

Honesty appreciated.
EDIT
Photographers attending group shoots what is your observation.

Posts like this always make me think of the word "projecting."

Not everyone is in your situation, or views things the same way you do, even if there are superficial similarities.

My "primary motivation" is to create something I consider beautiful.  If others, especially the subject of the photos, agree, so much the better.  If someone pays me, that is even better. 

I shoot "unpaid / tf" because not enough people pay me yet to keep up with my desire to create.

I go to "group shoots," but around here, group shoots are a very different thing (a setting for individuals to collaborate at an interesting location).   I don't waste my time worrying about the motives of other participants, I'm busy trying to create.

Top Gun Digital wrote:

For a lot of people photography is a serious hobby that cannot be fully pursued when younger due to having a full time job and raising a family.  For many photographers when they get older and the kids move out or they retire they can then pursue their photographic ambitions that they didn't have the time or money to pursue when younger.

Exactly!

Garry k wrote:
This thread won't be done until every middle aged photographer on MM posts his views on the subject

Thus ensuring the survival of MM for the next 47 years

I started it so I might as well end it.

Perhaps the raw statistic may indeed be correct that the majority of the MM photographers are middle aged men and seek young pretty female models.
Not withstanding the 100 year old models.
Case closed. Quod erat demonstrandum (QED)

R Bruce Duncan wrote:
And... as a published writer with a degree in English, I appreciate delicious ambiguity.  I especially liked... "Young men have hardware."
Well done.
Care to share what this means?

Stretch your imagination..

Shiva Photo wrote:

Perhaps the raw statistic may indeed be correct that the majority of the MM photographers are middle aged men and seek young pretty female models.
Not withstanding the 100 year old models.
Case closed. Quod erat demonstrandum (QED)

You are wrong if you think models only change their age to 100. The statistics are very skewed.

Shiva Photo wrote:

Stretch your imagination..

Young bull said to the old bull "let's run over to that field and have sex with one of those cows".

Old bull said to the young bull "lets walk over to that field and have sex with all of them".