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nudity...austin powers agency in particular
EDIT: OOPS, i meant AUSTIN Models & Talent Agency...sorry I got your name wrong...who actually looks as though he has been banned... This subject has been discussed here and there on the message boards, but I want to know from those with experience in the industry....how does nudity REALLY affect your career? Me in particular, I do not have fashion model stats. I am good for glamour, which is fun, but I am also looking towards commerical modeling because there is good money there and you can work well beyond your teens and 20's. So, assuming that when i'm 30 I will be trying to do pampers commercials and pantene, etc, how would topless and nude shoots affect my career? I get alot of offers for nudes/topless. However, i got offered $2000 for a hair ad, and $2000 for a topless shoot. I don't want to do topless/nudes and then have clients and agencies that won't touch me. I know there is the argument that the top models have done some sort of nudity. But they have the NAME to pull it off. And Vanessa Williams capatilized on what happened to her, and she has a phenomenal voice on top of that... What should I do? i personally do not have objections with nudity. I just do not want to spoil my career beyond nudes. May 19 05 03:14 pm Link My opinion, stick to your guns. If you are not comfortable with nudity or decided when you got into the biz. not to do it then stick with it. I don't believe anyone should have to strip just to get a gig. ....just my thoughts..... May 19 05 03:23 pm Link This will turn into a huge thread so I won't give you my opinion, I'll give you some facts to consider. Posted by Angel Tara: It doesn't. Did you know agencies have rates for nudity? When you sign with an agency you'll get a pay rate which is what you make whenever you work. If you do lingerie, you'll get double your rate and if you do implied of nudity, you'll get triple. So instead of 1,500.00 for the day you get 3,000.00 or 4,500.00. The name has nothing to do with it. Here's the thing unless you folllow fashion then you will not see, hear off or know the other 90% of the models working every day. You won't know the 13 and 14 yr' old lil girls working the runway in Milan. May 19 05 04:04 pm Link Tara, Personally, your looks give you several options like the ones you mention plus beauty, swimwear, lingerie catalogs, etc. One thing to consider is finding legit agencies(not a "manager") and get seen by them. Don't waste your time with internet based ones-you ideally want an agency that actually books models for commercial work. With nudity, working with a published, respected shooter and staying away from cheesy work should be OK. If you decide to try nudes-gear them towards commercial clients if possible, look at advertising in European fashion magazines. Be selective, I never heard of the agency you mention & a quick google search did not turn anything up. May 19 05 04:09 pm Link Fred... extremely helpful! First, I guess I do not know enough of what Vanessa Williams did. I thought she just posed nude... Second, I don't watch America's next top model. I actually wondered to myself this morning if they shot topless...thanks for that info. Kate Moss...yes I remember her. I do not like to give away my age since I really only look 19  , but I remember having a Kate Moss picture torn out a magazine taped to my way. She was topless and her nipple was showing. However, commercial agencies having rates for nudity? This is a first for me. I know you have plenty of experience in land based agencies and the industry in particular, so I am extremly interested in that information. So, the information I recieved that said that "commercial agencies won't touch you if they see you've done nudity"...that is false? what it really should say is they won't touch you if you have done "adult" work? Whewwww....I can't tell you how much this information helps. one more question...if I get offered $2,000 for a hair ad, and I'm not getting offered more for nudity as you suggested, then am I getting a low rate, probably due to the hair ad coming from an agency and the topless offer coming through the internet? May 19 05 04:13 pm Link Posted by Arturo J: sorry, the agency i mentioned is actual a member of this site who frequents these boards...I was trying to draw him into the discussion May 19 05 04:15 pm Link Well put, Arturo! In the end, it's really up to you what limitations you set for yourself. Nudity pays well, and the only way it can conceivably hurt you in your future career goals is if you became a politician or something  If you want to do a classy cheesecake pin-up shoot, by all means, do it! It's alot of fun. Nudes also give photograpgers a better idea of what you look like over-all, from my experience, and better help them decide what you would look best in for their particular project. *shrugs* Regardless, have fun and good luck in your modeling career ~C~ May 19 05 04:16 pm Link I have an agent here in Michigan, and he speaks of hushpuppy shoes and GM ads(motor city after all), pantene, etc. I can't imagine him booking me for a topless mag shoot. When he gave me suggestions for my comp, he said "shot with puppy, shot in business suit, shot smiling, etc etc. May 19 05 04:19 pm Link Posted by Arturo J: This info helped ALOT also...in fact its the european market that brough this all about... May 19 05 04:20 pm Link Posted by Angel Tara: W Magazine did a spread on Kate where they did a close up muff shot! Kate's nipples are plastered everywhere, no big deal. Nipples have their place. Well it depends. See all models that really want to make the real money and learn the business have to sign with an agency. There you learn how models get paid and why Kate Moss who right now even after the past 10 successful years of modeling that I have known about her is #2 in the world. Your pay is based upon what type of work it is. Catalog, editorial, number of pages, etc. Then rather or not it will be seen locally, nationally or international. So, hair is one of the few commercial gigs a model can get without professional agency representation because they don't like to pay the stardard rates. I don't know what your hair ad is for but I have a friend that made 15,000.00 for getting her picture on a perm box. May 19 05 04:29 pm Link Regarding putting nudes in your commercial, I would tend to be against it unless it was say a body part like a nude torso, back or legs. Shots like these are used much in advertising-this is where the big dollars are. Plus, they have the benefit of both showing you do nude without any possible negative stigma. I'd also put in an any commercial nude tears if you have any at that point. By commercial nudes, I am referring to ads & photos accompaning editorial beauty articles for example-not a mens magazine layout. Just wanted to be clear:-) May 19 05 04:33 pm Link I do have professional representation. I suppose it may not be the best person or agency. Perhaps because it is in michigan. Affiliated in Southfield michigan. so then bottom line; get with a better agency? *sigh* May 19 05 04:38 pm Link Tara, you can have more agencies in different regions. Say, one in LA, NY, Miami, etc. Keep the hometown one if it's working for you but look elsewhere too. Good questions, btw. May 19 05 04:40 pm Link Posted by Arturo J: A tear sheet is a tear sheet and a spread in a mens mag. counts too. May 19 05 04:41 pm Link Posted by Angel Tara: No that's not what I'm saying. Because of your questions, I didn't think you had an agency. These are questions you can direct to them. I don't ever knock agencies because they are big or small, famous or not, they still get you work. I am asked all the time here in Chicago, what's the best agency, elite or ford and my answer is which ever one gets you the most work. Even being in smaller markets, there are girls that live here that work NY, FL, ATL, Milan, Japan, South Africa, all the time etc so what does that tell you. That work is everywhere. It's just bigger agencies get bigger clients. May 19 05 04:47 pm Link this helps, but I am still confused. I guess not so much by whether nudity is bad, but now by what agencies to be with... any suggestions as to agencies in chicago, ny, la? May 19 05 04:47 pm Link Hmm, that depends on the magazine and how explicit the layout is. If a model did Hustler in the past, then signs with an agency, Fred... Would you advise her putting that in? I wouldn't, but that's me. My opinion is based on Tara's emphasis on possible commercial work. However, besides that I totally agree with your prev posts and comments. May 19 05 04:50 pm Link If it makes you feel any better I won't shoot nude ether. I'm pretty sure that would freak out the models I'm working with. May 19 05 04:51 pm Link Fred made a very good point. I know girls who get a lot of work and others who get little-all through the same agency. Find one that gets you work and is BEHIND you. May 19 05 04:54 pm Link Posted by Arturo J: No I wouldn't but I think you are mixing nudity with sex. Remember they are not the same thing. Hustler is in the world of porn. Porn is not apart of the commercial model industry it's the commercial porn industry. In fact it's considered hard porn. May 19 05 05:00 pm Link Tara, it is not easy to find your way in the commercial model sector, at least most of the time. There is a lot of trial & error. You have to do a LOT of pavement pounding, then if you find an agency, you have to be willing to go to many "go-sees", most of which you won't get. You need to have a thick skin and be determined to see it through. May 19 05 05:01 pm Link Posted by Arturo J: Agreed! May 19 05 05:03 pm Link commercial...does that also apply to beauty, swimwear, lingerie, catalogs? May 19 05 05:34 pm Link Yes, of course it does. Companies need models to advertise mdse. Max Factor, Covergirl are examples of Beauty companies. Victoria's Secret, Agent Provocateur make Lingerie. Ritchie, Speedo, Venus make swimwear. All adverstise & have either catalogs or store displays hence they are commercial clients. May 19 05 06:00 pm Link Posted by Angel Tara: Angel, in my experience not one major model has been affected by her Pre-Career nudes. There are LOTS of nude pics of Cindy Crawford floating around the world PRE-40 million dollar face. I think what it comes down to ultimatly is the types of nudes that are done. It's like actresses doing nude scenes in movies. Did a really hot sex scene hurt Ashley Judd? Nope. May 19 05 07:58 pm Link ok, as far as agencies, I have never considered trying to get into ford, or elite, etc. I am 5'4....i've seen smaller agencies that won't look at a girl under 5'7...and thats being generous. May 19 05 08:13 pm Link Posted by Angel Tara: Yeah you're right. Height is a big deal to them, even for cosmetics. Perhaps you can do character modeling, trade shows, promotional modeling, etc. There are agencies that rep. this type of work. Also, have you considered acting? Halle Berry started off trying to model and wandered into acting. Now look at her. The best of two worlds even though she is considered a spokesmodel. May 19 05 08:58 pm Link Posted by Fred Brown: Whoa !!! May 19 05 11:58 pm Link Posted by Angel Tara: Thank you for making that distinction. May 20 05 05:25 am Link Posted by Angel Tara: This is my view.....talior your book to reflect what cleints want.....not what every photographer wants to see if naked people. Think of what type of clients use nudity in ad campaigns...from beauty aids to bath tubs.....never show your book to a Christian ad campaign and how they are looking for a holy angel naked with wings....sounds like a Victoria's Secret ad...hummmmm maybe we have something there. I find nothing wrong with nudity or that it should not be press to have it in your book.....just think of what clients wants are. May 20 05 05:53 am Link Posted by Brian Kirk: Posted by Fred Brown: Whoa !!! Yep - I saw it, did you? That was the same issue that Tracy Lord appeared as the centerfold at the age of 15! Oh I'm sorry for those of you that do not know the story, Vanessa Williams was crowned the first African American woman to win the Miss America contest. The next day, Penthouse Magazine annouced they had nude pictures of her and she eventually (very quickly) had to give up the crown. Hm.... Penthouse - a fine art magazine, wow. And honestly she really is one of the few you can find that it has had any negative effect on - but you do need to consider content. As far as a negative effect, that's a matter of perception. Vanessa Williams is famus now because of her strength and success despite of the penthouse thing. People admired her success in the music and film industry and she's still going strong. She's the only Miss America who I can remember. So negative effect, hmmm I can't agree with you there. Plus, she would have only worn the crown for a year and had to do a year's worth of Miss America duties. -lol But she has had mega success. So it appears that not even penthouse which is way beyond the orginal post of nudity has put a stop on her future. -- I can't comment on Andrea Thompson because I don't know the story and I don't engage in hear say conversations. May 20 05 08:31 am Link What a freaking tease.... NOT posting the link. I remember that situation VERY well. And she did emerge on the top. And wonderful that we remember her probably mostly because of the penthouse \ May 20 05 12:24 pm Link Posted by DJ Foothill: LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yeah I was pretty close to doing it, I even had it pasted it into the box. May 20 05 03:05 pm Link Posted by Fred Brown: OK first of all it was 10 months after she was crowned - not the next day. You should post the link for people to decide - Penthouse in '84 was a LOT different than Penthouse today. She was also working for the photographer in question as a receptionist at the time - he told her she would only be shown in silhouette and did not get a release. The only way those photos got published was because she had become a "public figure" and it bypassed what would have otherwise been illegal. There is a ton of misinformation on the story especially that the photos were done FOR Penthouse. May 20 05 04:22 pm Link A lot of people are giving examples of famous fashion models not being hurt by nudity. There's a world of difference between fashion and commercial. Fashion models cash in when they do ad campaigns, and to many people those ads they do are "commercial" just because it's advertising, but it's commercial fashion. The brands they advertise for are fashion identified brands even if it's perfume, a shoe or a purse. For those brands a model doing something racy, sexy, provocative or controversial probably attaches a desirable cache, creates a buzz. That's a generalization because certainly models do crossover and do more traditional "commercial" style ads also sometimes. On the other hand true bread and butter commercial/lifestyle/catalog advertising and marketing generally involves very conservative clients who are often extremely concerned about keeping a "clean," "wholesome" image and they don't want what they consider negative or controversial connotations associated with anyone representing them or associated with them. The "face of" All American next-door product incorporated isn't supposed to be seen doing fetish, porn, or cheap cheesy glamour or anything too provocative. That's why they might have what they call "morals clauses" in the contracts they have you sign if you're going to model for them. Every client and every agency is different, and what might be fine to one might be unacceptable to another. A lot of times it might not be doing a nude or not, or how much skin shows or not, but the nature, quality, context and impression made. That also applies to other non-nude work, not necessarily in the "morals" sense (I didn't invent the terms or attitude, don't blame me, sorry ) but just in terms of bad, cheesy, unflattering or otherwise possibly detrimental to your career or the strategy they have for you. That's why agencies like to keep tight control over what goes in your book, what you show or have shown online, what kind of jobs you do and who you shoot with. There are exceptions to every rule and not everything everyone does will be known about or found out about to the right/wrong people. But for anyone wanting to make a real attempt at legit and hopefully well paying commercial modeling I think you'd be well advised to check with some horses mouths on this in the form of reputable commercial agents in your market, markets you plan to work in and major market agencies that handle national accounts (not that local ones don't sometimes also) What a famous fashion model can do or an established model with an established image can do and a beginning model, especially a commercial one, can do might not always be the same. If you think you have what it takes for real world commercial modeling and you plan to attempt it then I think it's wise to go ahead and attempt it with the guidance or input of a good agency/agencies and to be pretty careful what else you do in the meantime until you get certain things ok'd or develop your own understanding of risks, rewards and limits. Personally, I've seen a lot of models here that I think have real and strong potential that are doing a lot of work that in style, quality, or both, they really shouldn't let be seen in public. Of course not everybody cares about certain types of work and would be happy only doing the kinds of things similar to whatever it is they're doing. More power to them. May 20 05 04:44 pm Link To put in short terms what I see being said in quite a few of the responses.. It's not so much IF you shoot nude so much as the quality of it. There's a difference between artistic and explicit. May 20 05 04:57 pm Link No offense intended, but why does everything have to be reduced to a sound bite? There's probably some truth in what you say, but it can be more complex than that. There is value in nuance, detail, distinctions & explanations. That can be one of the benefits of the time and space in a place like this, the ability to communicate thoughtfully. We have enough morons and demagogues on TV oversimplifying, dumbing down and sound biting us to death. May 20 05 05:08 pm Link Posted by Brian Kirk: 10 months for what? For them to say they have the pictures or for her to loose the crown? In either case considering how she could only be Miss Aamerica for 12 months, I don't think the story would have made national news with 2 months left to go. However, the crown was taken before she could find a resting place for it. Notice you will not find anywhere in history where she started her tour stuff. You should post the link for people to decide - Penthouse in '84 was a LOT different than Penthouse today. No I shouldn't post the link. No one outside of you really seems interested in seeing the pictures. After all, I did say that I have a link. No one has emailed me requesting to see it. I didn't post it because there are children that use this site therefore as a professional and a parent, I know better. In terms of Penthouse She was also working for the photographer in question as a receptionist at the time - he told her she would only be shown in silhouette and did not get a release. I fail to see why that is important. There is a ton of misinformation on the story especially that the photos were done FOR Penthouse. Are you saying that the photoshoot was not done for Penthouse? Not sure what you meant but the difference is that they were published in Penthouse regardless of who they were shot for. Well I don't doubt that, but here is one thing that you cannot argue, Sex is sex. I do wonder how much you actually remember about the spread. There was an image where her tongue could be seen making contact with the other woman's groin. That to me says sex so I would like your thoughts about that. May 20 05 06:36 pm Link Buddy, do your homework. The best writeup I've found of the whole story is at THIS LINK (edited to fix formatting issues) The dates listed check out with other sources including the Miss America site (who actually has nice things to say about her now ...). Posted by Fred Brown: She was also working for the photographer in question as a receptionist at the time - he told her she would only be shown in silhouette and did not get a release. I fail to see why that is important. Ms. Williams admits to having an apparently misplaced trust in him and has not been above considering herself naive and stupid ... Posted by Fred Brown: Posted by Brian Kirk: Well I don't doubt that, but here is one thing that you cannot argue, Sex is sex. I do wonder how much you actually remember about the spread. There was an image where her tongue could be seen making contact with the other woman's groin. That to me says sex so I would like your thoughts about that. Paula Jones vs. William Jefferson Clinton ... May 20 05 09:55 pm Link seems everyone has a different opinion. Sexual photos hurt...most agree on that. But fashion topless? May 20 05 11:58 pm Link |
