Marllee wrote:
A to feel better?

Although I don't see what's wrong with a model changing their mind about a shoot. Unless there's money involved (as in studio space/hotel rented, make up artist involved, driving out to shoot with the person, etc... not how much someones camera cost them) are you really missing out on much?

Hi Marllee.

I'm sure the OP appreciates your eHug but I, for one, can't resist responding to this.

You don't see what's wrong with a model just "changing their mind about a shoot".
Wow, this amazes me. I am simply amazed that you would say that.

Once someone makes an appointment, they should keep it..unless something truly comes up that simply won't allow the person to keep said appointment. And in that case a phone call is the only professional thing to do. Simply changing ones mind is immature, unprofessional and down-right rude.

Yes, we miss out on much when a model decides that she has something better to do. Certainly I, and most others, are busy enough that we can spend that time doing other things, but we also could have booked A REAL model on that day.
Remind me to never book a shoot with you......

EyeOnYouModels wrote:
Yes, we miss out on much when a model decides that she has something better to do. Certainly I, and most others, are busy enough that we can spend that time doing other things, but we also could have booked A REAL model on that day.
Remind me to never book a shoot with you......

I guess I just don't mind the idea of "oh well shit happens." I've had photographers cancel on me last minute, not show up, or not deliver pictures. I've just never dwelt on any of that and moved on. In those instances when a photographer flakes out on me I just put it in perspective and realize that I wasn't even getting paid in the first place and that it only cost me $4 in travel money (usually) for just a waste of time.

Robert_Vega wrote:
Last week I had three photo shoots planned.
I had to spend the night where I drove to cause it was pretty far from where I lived.
The first model rushed through the shoot, 5 or 6 outfits in only 45 minutes, and afterwards 9three days later, i believe) refused to sign any model releases.
The second model was a no-call no-show.
The third model showed, but made some excuse why she couldn't do the shoot.

Next weekend, model cancels on Saturday evening.
Monday: model cancels (and we both planned this shoot for over two weeks)
The other night: model tells me other models blow me off cause my work sucks ass.

I think I'm way too impatient to keep getting blown off by models all the time, i.e. I quit!
Too many models on here have way too big of an ego for only being "internet models."
'effin bull$hit!

This is why I rarely do TFP's but when I do have time (offseason) I post this on my site...

[b]>>> MY 6 STEP PROGRAM REGARDING TFP's  I do very selective TFP’s and when I do, this is How I Do Them:
1) model must be 18+ with proper I.D. and bring a copy of it to the shoot
2) model must sign a model release before shoot
3) I do not sign over or share copyrights
4) The model will get a CD with not less than 10% of the total number of photographs taken during the shoot as Promotional Images, 14-21 days after the photo shoot.
5) TFP is to be used by the model, mua, stylist, etc. for self promotion ONLY! Promotional materials include but are not limited to portfolios, comp cards & website. Not to be sold or used commercially without my written consent.
6) For a TFP, a deposit of $100.00 is required to insure a sincere commitment! Your deposit is returned the moment you arrive for your shoot. Cancellation must take place at least 24hrs. before the shoot. That is all...Have A Great Day

Marllee wrote:

I guess I just don't mind the idea of "oh well shit happens." I've had photographers cancel on me last minute, not show up, or not deliver pictures. I've just never dwelt on any of that and moved on. In those instances when a photographer flakes out on me I just put it in perspective and realize that I wasn't even getting paid in the first place and that it only cost me $4 in travel money (usually) for just a waste of time.

I can't speak for the photogs that you've had that cancelled, no-showed or didn't deliver pictures. It would seem that many photogs are unprofessional as well.

And yes, "shit" does happen. However, simply "changing ones mind" doesn't fall under the category of shit happening.
Regardless of how many models have no-showed with me that doesn't mean that I will carry such a casual attitude with the other models.

Marllee wrote:
Although I don't see what's wrong with a model changing their mind about a shoot. Unless there's money involved (as in studio space/hotel rented, make up artist involved, driving out to shoot with the person, etc... not how much someones camera cost them) are you really missing out on much?

In my past personal experience, there has almost always been a financial cost incurred when a model flakes. I normally shoot on location, and I have driven to the location of several shoots, only to be stood up by a flakey model. The expense of the drive alone could easily be over $50. I have several times purchased materials for shoots that I never got to use. I remember spending about $300 once, preparing for a shoot that never happened, because the model flaked at the last minute. Models have no earthly idea what expenses the photographer might have associated with an aborted shoot. Even if they did, I doubt that a lot of them would care. I've certainly met a few that I know for a fact didn't care about the money they cost me.

Also, it's not usually just a simple matter of the photographer turning on the lights in their "already paid for" studio, and pointing their "already paid for" camera gear in the direction of the model as she deigns to enter their shooting space. Good and creative photography often takes planning and preparation. There can be a lot of time spent getting ready for a shoot, especially if anything remotely elaborate is being planned. (I'm not talking about the type of "assembly-line" photography practiced at "portrait mills" or in cheap department stores.) I get the impression that you don't think a person's time has any value. This is possibly the worst misconception you have. Money? Heck, I can always make more money. Money can be replaced -- time can't. If you flake on a shoot, you not only waste the time the photographer might have spent waiting on you to arrive the day of the shoot, but you have also wasted all the time he spent searching for a model, the time spent negotiating the terms and outlining the goals of the shoot, and all the time they spent in preparation for the shoot. This could sometimes be several days worth of time. You're robbing this person of a slice of their very own life! They can't get that time back, not from you, not from anyone. Oh sure, you might say they can always reschedule, but that robs their future time that they would have spent on something else.

Maybe you feel your time isn't worth anything, but many other people properly realize how valuable their time truly is. Contrary to the old saying, time isn't money. Time is worth far more than money. One day, you will realize that.


later,
Glen

Marllee wrote:
I don't know for others but the time usually spent on setting up a tfp shoot for me  consists of a few e-mails and a couple of phone calls. So if things happen to fall through I really don't see it as such a lost and doesn't make that big of a dent in my life.

That is one of the most inconsiderate and self-centered sounding statements I have read in ages. As long as it doesn't make a dent in your life, you apparently don't care about the hardship you might cause someone else. That's pretty cold.

People like you make it tempting to purchase Poser 6 and go into illustration.

Fortunately, there are some honest and reliable models out there. There aren't quite enough of them, but I've found enough to talk myself out of giving up.


later,
Glen

nineandnineteen wrote:
*Sigh*

And again...models don't get the idea of what TIME really is...

You see it as not much investment...

Photographers (for the most part) have to put in A LOT of time and effort JUST for a TFP.

Where seemingly you show up for a shoot all ready...think of all the time spent setting up, scheduling, getting ready, buying props, (if its a location shoot, time has to be spent scoping that setting, talking to the owners, etc)

Just not showing up is horrible business skills, and proves to me that you're nothing more than an amature who doesn't take it seriously.

(Think if your doctor decided to just not show up for a procedure, or a hair stylist, or if you went to you bank and they decided to just not be open because they didn't feel like it...or your pharmacy...)

This IS a business for some of us, and not showing up is one of the worst things a model can do for a photographer.  Imagine if you spent countless hours getting ready for something, (say...a date?) and you took several days of planning, bought several things, had everything planned out and you were sitting there waiting...and your date never shows....ya...similar feelings...

Not all models feel that time isn't an investment (I work full time and go to school fulltime and sleep... oh never so the little amount of time I have is VERY important to me!!)... and not all MICHIGAN models will pull a no-show!!!! I for one (being a Michigan model) have never been a no-show. I can't imagine doing that to someone who is willing to help me!!!! It all boils down to who really wants it and who is here for an ego boost!!! I REALLY want this!!!! I try my hardest and I'm ALWAYS looking to improve!!!! It's really a hard concept for me to grasp... just not showing up... If I'm on my way and I think I'm going to be making it even a minute late I make sure to call the photographer to let them know that!!!! I'm sure there are legitimate excuses every now and again, but how can you warrent not calling as soon as something comes up?!?!?!? I'm sorry that whole concept baffels me!!!! So if you're looking for a reliable model... in Michigan... you've got one here!!!!

Marllee wrote:
I don't know for others but the time usually spent on setting up a tfp shoot for me  consists of a few e-mails and a couple of phone calls. So if things happen to fall through I really don't see it as such a lost and doesn't make that big of a dent in my life.

If it's an elaborate shoot that's been setup weeks or months in advance I try my best to make it and am usually looking foward to it. If something unavoidable comes up then I try to reschedule a few days in advance. But if the photographer just happens to have the day off and wants to meet up so we can "shoot some stuff" with no real direction...well I don't feel so guilty about calling a couple hours ahead and saying I can't make it if i'm not up to it.

You are just not getting it girlie.  For YOU, the time doesn't mtter, for the photographer it's time that could have been booked with a REAL model, or doing work for a client.  It takes time to set up lights, making sure everything is set and just right for a model to walk in and the shooting to begin.

You are doing more to damage your reputation right now with your flippant comments.  I know have your name down as a DO NOT CONTACT or the times I get to New York, which is quite often.  Good luck with that attitude!

Marllee wrote:
A to feel better?

Although I don't see what's wrong with a model changing their mind about a shoot. Unless there's money involved (as in studio space/hotel rented, make up artist involved, driving out to shoot with the person, etc... not how much someones camera cost them) are you really missing out on much?

This is part of the problem.  Yes, there is a cost involved for me to drive a hour to where I shoot not to mention the hour I wait for them to show when they don't and the hour drive back home.  So minus the fuel cost, I have lost three hours of my productive time on earth.  Thats something I can never recover and if you don't "get" that then you lack understanding on the value of others.
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