Digital Soup wrote:
Profoto with wireless and porto packs.

Top Profoto stuff cost 6k+ just for the power pack-- you only have 7.5k to spend.  And unless you really need recycle rates at 1 second, instead of 1.8, I'd not pick Profoto's lesser stuff as my choice.

Ronald N Tan wrote:
Come on now, don't forget the Speedotrons!

For only 7.5k I'd pick Speedotrons for even the cheaper Novatron systems.  W/ that amount of money you can get a 1200 to power accent lights, a 4800 for studio work (as key and fill light), and enough heads to do commercial/fashion photography-- which when talking about lights, I assume is the direction we are going, b/c they rely on lighting so strongly.

Going this route, you'd NOT want to deal w/ monolights.  Having to sync and lower the C-stands on 5 or more monolights heads when you need to dial down the power, instead of doing it w/ a remote to a power pack-- not fun.

ChristerArt wrote:

I certainly would not spend it all in one buying bonanza...

I would think for a week - or more - really think about my needs - then I would look for vendors where I could get the stuff I would buy to *start* - check their reputations - and then get the basics...

And I would leave the rest of the money in a separate account - and only use that account when I *really* needed something absolutely...

90% of the time you don't really need all that expensive stuff you *think* you need... Use your imagination instead and see how you can make very good do with only part of what you *thought* you absolutely *had* to have...=*^)

Buy one or two pieces of a system and start with that...

Christer

Essentially I agree.  I think many of us have purchased things because we thought we needed it and found we needed something else.

Write down exactly what kind of images and style you shoot.  Then research lighting equipment for that specialty (i.e. as a portrait and wedding photographer I would drop $1000 on a Quantum Qflash before I would drop $1000 on a Hensel or Dyna-lite.)  Start with the basic set-up and start playing with it.  From there you will be able to determin what kid of modifiers might be best for you or how many strobe heads or mono-lights you might need.  You might find yourself getting everything you would ever want for $3500 leaving you $4000.00 to buy glass or other gear.

Stephen Brisendine wrote:

Sorry, this is total BS. If your client values your gear over the final product, they're elitist morons.

But the white lightnings might be a bit dated. Get some AlienBees gear, and spend the other $5500 on some new lenses and a backup body.

Actually, more and more photogs are going with small flashes for location shooting now anyways. Start reading strobist.com.

No.....  this analogy is BS.  Someone who is paying you a grip of money doesn't want you coming in to shoot his whatever when it's very possible he has better equipment at home in his basement as a hobbyist.  People with money have nice toys and for you to show up with something less than they may have would be foolish.

Example:  a guy books a $10,000 wedding and shows up to shoot it with a Rebel.  The groom is walking around shooting his guests with a 1Ds Mark II that he purchased a while back.  You know the groom is fully aware of what you paid for your camera.  Is it right for him to judge you by what you shoot?  It's probably a shallow way of thinking but it's life, it's a fact and he's paying the bill. 

Jay Esposito wrote:

I 2nd this

Solid plan. Just be sure sure to budget another  couple K for modifiers

Marc Grant wrote:

No.....  this analogy is BS.  Someone who is paying you a grip of money doesn't want you coming in to shoot his whatever when it's very possible he has better equipment at home in his basement as a hobbyist.  People with money have nice toys and for you to show up with something less than they may have would be foolish.

Example:  a guy books a $10,000 wedding and shows up to shoot it with a Rebel.  The groom is walking around shooting his guests with a 1Ds Mark II that he purchased a while back.  You know the groom is fully aware of what you paid for your camera.  Is it right for him to judge you by what you shoot?  It's probably a shallow way of thinking but it's life, it's a fact and he's paying the bill. 

I've never ever had a client ask me what brand of lights I shoot with. They don't know shit about lights. They are more apt to ask about brands of cameras, which is still ridiculous, and mostly small talk.

A photographer should buy what suits his working style and needs, and concentrate on finished product, rather than worrying needlessly about flashy brand names stuck on all his gear. Given a choice, I'd remove all the brand names off the gear and put my own logo in place.

GGDeluxe wrote:
Forget the load of bull here about high end Euro made flash units. They use the same capacitors made in China that the low end units do. Oh I almost forgot - Buff (Alien Bees/White Lightning/Zeus)

When you start off w/ the idea that AB's are just as good as the other suggested brands, in such a misguided view, it makes the rest of your post hard to take serious

Truth wrote:
(Buff) Z2500 Power Pack  ($800)
2,500 watt seconds
recycle time: 2.4 seconds at 2,500 Ws
Accepts 2 heads, and only does 1:1 and 3:1 ratio
5-stop power adjustment


Profoto Pro 7A ($7,500+)
2,400 watt seconds
recycle time: 1.5 seconds at 2,400 Ws
Accepts 3 heads, power adjustments seperate for head A, and combined heads B
6-stop power adjustment
1/8000 to 1/1600 second flash duration
Color tempeture accurate across all power settings


Speedotron 2403CX ($1,800)
2,400 watt seconds
recycle time: 2.0 seconds at 2,400 Ws
Accepts 6 heads, various groupings (A,B,C) 1:1, 2:1, and 4:1 ratios easy, plus others
4-stop power adjustment (has a 7-stop range)

And then you poo-poo C-stands?  Those are nice stands you pointed to, but if you ever need to put a hard spot right next to a soft box, the legs on the C-stands make that possible and easy.  It's the reason they are the industry standard for the film buisness.

N Stiles Photography wrote:

GGDeluxe wrote:
Forget the load of bull here about high end Euro made flash units. They use the same capacitors made in China that the low end units do. Oh I almost forgot - Buff (Alien Bees/White Lightning/Zeus)

When you start off w/ the idea that AB's are just as good as the other suggested brands, in such a misguided view, it makes the rest of your post hard to take serious


And then you poo-poo C-stands?  Those are nice stands you pointed to, but if you ever need to put a hard spot right next to a soft box, the legs on the C-stands make that possible and easy.  It's the reason they are the industry standard for the film buisness.

I'll give you $5 if you can visually pick out the MM ports that use Elinchrom, and the one's that use AB400's...

I once assisted a "brookie" grad who said that the real reason for using big name gear (and lots of it) was to justify your large invoices to clients. He would show up with a frickin' trailor full of all the cool shit, and then when we took the actual shots, we only used his White Lightinings 3200, and some silver covered foam insulation (home made reflector) we got from home depot. His work was the shit! I always wondered if the clients ever noticed that we hardly ever used any of the stacks of gear...

but hell, the set looked as if we were gonna shoot a movie!

abSolute KeLviN  wrote:
I'll give you $5 if you can visually pick out the MM ports that use Elinchrom, and the one's that use AB400's...

A good photographer can take almost any model and get a good picture from the shoot-- but if he has an expereinced model he can get hundreds to pick from-- but you'll never know by looking at the pictures he posts, which is which.

You lower the AB's power, the color shifts warmer-- you have to now adjust it in post, or redo your white balance-- more work, but not visible in the final product.  He waits for 2.8 seconds... inconvenience-- you can't see it in the final product.  He shoots fashion and misses the shot b/c of the time he waits-- you'll never see it.  He's get's a gig w/ Playboy and is using 12x heads... which means 6 power packs to run over and adjust-- you'll not see it (conversely, the Profoto and Speedotron guys have 3 or 4 packs and may adjust them via a remote).

What's your point?  That AB's are equal?  Look at the stats-- they aren't equal.  They may do everything you need them to do, but that's the same as me saying my Saturn is equal to a Porsche, b/c when I get to work you can't tell what I drove to get there.  I mean... I don't need to drive faster than 80 or so... I get to my desk at the same time as the Porsche guy??

N Stiles Photography wrote:

GGDeluxe wrote:
Forget the load of bull here about high end Euro made flash units. They use the same capacitors made in China that the low end units do. Oh I almost forgot - Buff (Alien Bees/White Lightning/Zeus)

When you start off w/ the idea that AB's are just as good as the other suggested brands, in such a misguided view, it makes the rest of your post hard to take serious


And then you poo-poo C-stands?  Those are nice stands you pointed to, but if you ever need to put a hard spot right next to a soft box, the legs on the C-stands make that possible and easy.  It's the reason they are the industry standard for the film buisness.

1. Light is light.

There may be some color variation with Buffs lights but I haven't noticed it. There are a lot of pluses to purchasing ABs - seems to be only that one minus - color temperature. Well, my Wollensak lens on a 50 year old Crown Graphic has more defects in it than Buffs lights, and that takes better pictures than a Canon 1D Mk III.

2. The Avenger with Lazy Leg has practically the same features as a turtle base C Stand. I just prefer them

3. If you want to make a suggestion to the OP then do so. If you want to criticize me for making those suggestions then tell me how $7500 of your lights will buy 1/2 of what I suggested.

GGDeluxe wrote:
1. Light is light.

There may be some color variation with Buffs lights but I haven't noticed it. There are a lot of pluses to purchasing ABs - seems to be only that one minus - color temperature. Well, my Wollensak lens on a 50 year old Crown Graphic has more defects in it than Buffs lights, and that takes better pictures than a Canon 1D Mk III.

2. The Avenger with Lazy Leg has practically the same features as a turtle base C Stand. I just prefer them

3. If you want to make a suggestion to the OP then do so. If you want to criticize me for making those suggestions then tell me how $7500 of your lights will buy 1/2 of what I suggested.

I'm not critizing your suggestion: but how you made it.  You just dismissed leading industry items, not b/c they were too expensive, but b/c you think they aren't better than AB's?  You come across as haveing no understanding of what you are talking about-- but I'm guessing that it's just poor communication and some biasness, not ignorance.

1. "Light is light" is the worst thing you can say to photographers!!!  We work w/ light, this thread is based on light-- there's soft light, hard light, spot lights, fresnel quality light-- it's very, very different.  This is another one of those moments that I was referring to.

Again, AB's may work for you and 99% of all photographers-- I have nothing against them; but they aren't in the same league as Profoto's, and will never be seen shooting at Playboy, Car and Driver, or a fashion shoot for GQ.

2. Those stands are excellent-- but, C-stands are still can be stack next to each other tighter than the lazy leg.

3. I already gave my advice.  I suggested Novatron or Speedotron.  Both in this price range has excellent options and flexibility.  Since I hate monolights for a setup w/ more than one light, and AB's power pack won't support more than two heads-- they aren't my choice of lights.  Though I have recommended them to someone else just today.

Thomas B wrote:
If you had a $7500 budget to spend on a new lighting system, what would you purchase? what accessories? Would love to hear some different opinions.
Thanks
Thomas

First off there is some really bad advice here... so much built upon untested, simple opinion, non professional (or Semi-pro?*) experience, and very little real common sense.  The worst advice being stated or based upon incomplete technology and systems that only are designed to be used in garage studios.  And yes, clients do care about brand and the quality of your gear... when a client has a better camera than you do, you're in trouble - my clients expect my gear to be worth the expense they are paying.  If I don't own what the shoot requires, I rent it!

Don't buy ABs or White Lightning and go on vacation—nor—buy a brand you cannot support in future: Profoto and Broncolor.  $7500 barely buys the paint on these systems, they are wonderful, excellent to say the least, but you have to be able to support the system growth. 

There are other mid range systems that you can build quite a nice set from $3500-7500 including stands and some grip.  I recommend Hensel, I traded all my Broncolor and went with Hensel because I could afford the growth - Broncolor was bleeding me dry. 

Here is an expense example:  A flashlamp for a Hensel Integra 500 costs $66, a Profoto monolight 600ws tube $143, a Broncolor 1600 Unilite $380; Hensel 3000ws flashtube $319, Profoto Acute AB 2400w $497, Broncolor Pulso G 3200w $590... as an indication of expense. (Sources Samy's Camera, B&H, and Sinar Bron.)  BTW, I have two spare modeling bulbs and two spare flash tubes in the equipment cart at all times.

NOTE: Hensel has a two year warranty whereas most other manufacturers only carry a one year plan.  Repair if needed is in New Jersey and handled immediately.

If it were my money I'd buy two of the Hensel Pro Mini 1200 AS packs and four to six Pro Mini 1200 heads, and spend the rest on stands and grip.  That is me though.

Robert

*Semi-pro:  I would love to meet anyone who is in a profession with "Semi" status.  I don't know any Semi-pro doctors, Semi-pro lawyers, Semi-pro CPAs, etc. I have a very good group of friends who are doctors - a couple are surgeons - who shoot photography as a hobby.  They sell their work and have gallery openings and all kinds of wonderful photo knowledge, but they are "Full-Time" doctors and "Semi-Time" photographers.

If I were to hand over my car to a "Semi-pro" mechanic to do a tune up, I guess I would hold the workmanship to a "Semi-quality" status.  I just do not know any other way to express my feelings about this term.

Zave Smith wrote:
I also shoot with Dyna Lites.  I own something like 8 packs and ten heads.  Some of my heads and packs  are 16 years old and still going strong. Two heads I just bought last week. For me, the 1000 packs with the built in radio slaves are just perfect unless I am shooting in direct sunlight and then I pull out the 2000 watt packs.

I used to shoot with Mono Block heads like WL.  In fact my first strobe was one of Paul's first units built in 1980 or so.  The problem for me with Mono heads is, lets say you have a light on a boom stand, 15 feet in the air and you decide that you want a bit more or less power in that light. You have to pull the light down to adjust the power setting.  With power packs and heads, you can reach over (or have your assistant reach over) and adjust the power setting.  While I know that this sounds like a small deal, I assure you, it is a big deal.

I am not sure why Pro Foto is the big deal right now, it is.  When I was starting out it was Balcar and Speedos.  Then it became Bron Color.  Now it is Pro Foto.  Must be the size of these companies marketing budgets.

great to see another dynalite shooter here. i also forgot to mention that i also have two 400w/s DynaLite UNI400JR monolights, which are nice but I don't use them very much. For studio shooting, I also recently just bought the Paul C. Buff ZEUS Ringlight... it's sweeet!!!

On the topic of why profoto is so "in" right now... they really are amazing systems. the light quality is unique... i don't know how they do it, but they do. i've shot with profoto a few times and they are wonderful to work with. not quite as "easy" as dynalite, but the light is amazing as I said. I'll stick with dynalite for now... :-) they never let me down!

N Stiles Photography wrote:
Again, AB's may work for you and 99% of all photographers-- I have nothing against them; but they aren't in the same league as Profoto's, and will never be seen shooting at Playboy, Car and Driver, or a fashion shoot for GQ.

Would you like to place a bet on that?  Because if so... you have already lost.

Rocksteady,
Danno~

Robert Sanders wrote:
There are other mid range systems that you can build quite a nice set from $3500-7500 including stands and some grip.  I recommend Hensel, I traded all my Broncolor and went with Hensel because I could afford the growth - Broncolor was bleeding me dry.

Ahhh, so nice to see another Hensel shooter.

Good advice, all the way. Hensels are excellent - terrific price point, robust as hell, good looking, and have relatively inexpensive modifiers. I just got their beauty dish with grid attachment and bag for $210.

If I could wish, I would wish that their 1000 Integra monoblocs weren't 2x as expensive as the 500 Ws units.

Nick Zantop wrote:
profoto or broncolor. If you like location work, I'd go with profoto, although either would be excellent. Don't rush into a store and buy the first thing you see though, Do your research and decide what is best for you. Rent before you buy to see if you like it.

Broncolor is WAAAAY to expensive to be able to manage in only 7500.00

Lumondo Photography wrote:

Ahhh, so nice to see another Hensel shooter.

Good advice, all the way. Hensels are excellent - terrific price point, robust as hell, good looking, and have relatively inexpensive modifiers. I just got their beauty dish with grid attachment and bag for $210.

If I could wish, I would wish that their 1000 Integra monoblocs weren't 2x as expensive as the 500 Ws units.

Who actually shipped you the BD? I ordered one from B&H for my hensel gear, and after two months, still nothing, so I canceled the order and still haven't decided what to do about it.

Tim Mills wrote:
It's never about the tools, and always about the work!

Cost doesn't matter if you don't know what you're doing, or can't make the most of the tools you have.

I would go with what you are most comfortable.

I grew up with Speedo. That's what I like.

But, if you are thinking about spending 7500 and your shots won't reflect that.....Take the Trip!! :  )

I woulld say I have done alright using the cheap lights I own. Every shot in my portfolio was shot with one light with a softbox that is held together by saftey pins (except the shots with a blown out white background....I have a 2nd light to use on the background). Like I said before....I am looking to get a little more serious about my photography so I would like to take a step forward with the equipment.
Thanks
Thomas