Posted by Doug Swinskey: 
so i get this email from this lovely young woman..she is interested in working with me..now not being a "TFPer" it easy to politely decline her..

but as it happens, she appears a perfect fit for a client that i am testing with for swimwear catalog/brochure and website.....

he is also looking for a featured model..this gig could prove to land this girl some serious green and national attention..

now while i have some creative input in the selection of the model...it is of course the clients choice..

heres my delema..i went to her profile and its filled with images from an association of photographers that have made a carreer out of slamming me for my past associations...

do you think this is a matter of what goes around..comes around?
she wont make or break my test..my skills will do that..
but i have a problem offering something so valuable, to what is apprently, an ally of my enemies....

your thoughts?

Doug, some things to consider, which you may already have.

1) The e-mail could be sent by her manager, or photographer to eff with your head. Get you all hyped up and then, bam, cut off communications

2) This could be the perfect opportunity for you to "one up" the guys who slammed you. FYI, It could be, they are recommending you behind the scenes as a peace offering and, or as an acknowledgment of your photography skills.

Lastly, it could be she just likes your work and wants to give you a chance. Whichever the case, go for it anyway and see where it pans out in the end.

Posted by Joe K. Perez: 
Doug, some things to consider, which you may already have.

1) The e-mail could be sent by her manager, or photographer to eff with your head. Get you all hyped up and then, bam, cut off communications

2) This could be the perfect opportunity for you to "one up" the guys who slammed you. FYI, It could be, they are recommending you behind the scenes as a peace offering and, or as an acknowledgment of your photography skills.

Lastly, it could be she just likes your work and wants to give you a chance. Whichever the case, go for it anyway and see where it pans out in the end.

i of course handle things the way i do..so my posting was more about how others would handle this type situation..

much like the models that blew me off early, but are now  asking for my time..forgetting thier previous rudness..i usually handle things in a professional manner..

with your manager thought..i was actually on the phone with a model about a year ago..i was sitting at my comptuer and an email popped up from her..i was like hey, i just got an email from you..well it was from her online manager pretening to be her..she was mad..the end of that manager arraigment..

Posted by Dan Hood: 
The Ybor city scam forecast warning system says to tell her why you will not be working with her as people (models included) are known by the company they keep and If she wants to distance herself from Video game and counter terrorism experts you might consider it. 

you are freaken hysterical and you pay way to close attention to things...

Posted by Doug Swinskey: 
do you think this is a matter of what goes around..comes around?
she wont make or break my test..my skills will do that..
but i have a problem offering something so valuable, to what is apprently, an ally of my enemies....

your thoughts?

It's not fair to make the model pay for the mistakes of  others.  I recently had a situation where a model was a very close friend to a stylist that has made a career out of slamming me. I was put in a situation of helping chose the model for the paid shoot she normally does.  Part of me wanted to say "NO NO NO, DONT USE HER!"  This is my chance to show both of them the final finger. I decided against it, I decided to just stay out of the decision making process and not even offer and opinion other then "they are both great"  because the bottom line is, the model never intended to hurt me and though I question her taste in friends that has nothing to do with her ability as a model and I don't think it should be held against her.

I think your responsability is always to the paying client and looking out for their interest not yours would be taking the higher road.

Posted by Aaron_H: 
What do you mean by testing with a client? Shooting on spec? Or you have the gig but are testing aspects or approaches to the shoot?

i have a pile of clothes in my studio from the client, the client wants me to shoot models, in the clothes, in different styles..while i haven't been retained yet, if he likes my work, i will be hired to shoot the catalog and brochures..if he likes images from the shoot and wants to use them, i will be compensated my commercial rates..it is an audition.
but could be a paid audition. do you like a differnet word then testing?

Posted by Doug Swinskey: 

Posted by Aaron_H: 
What do you mean by testing with a client? Shooting on spec? Or you have the gig but are testing aspects or approaches to the shoot?

i have a pile of clothes in my studio from the client, the client wants me to shoot models, in the clothes, in different styles..while i haven't been retained yet, if he likes my work, i will be hired to shoot the catalog and brochures..if he likes images from the shoot and wants to use them, i will be compensated my commercial rates..it is an audition.
but could be a paid audition. do you like a differnet word then testing?

I was trying to clarify what the scenario was. For further clarification, you're saying it could be a paid audition meaning because if he ends up wanting to use some of your images, but not hire you to shoot the catelog, you'll end up having been paid, essentially as stock, for the images he chose? If that's the situation, then yes, I'd call that shooting on spec (a whole 'nother can of worms) not testing in the ways that I've always understood it.

Posted by Doug Swinskey:   do you like a differnet word then testing?

That sounds like shooting on spec not testing, and you and the model should be getting paid for it, even if the client doesn't use or even like the pictures - and paid more if they do.

Posted by Aaron_H: 

Posted by Doug Swinskey: 

Posted by Aaron_H: 
What do you mean by testing with a client? Shooting on spec? Or you have the gig but are testing aspects or approaches to the shoot?

i have a pile of clothes in my studio from the client, the client wants me to shoot models, in the clothes, in different styles..while i haven't been retained yet, if he likes my work, i will be hired to shoot the catalog and brochures..if he likes images from the shoot and wants to use them, i will be compensated my commercial rates..it is an audition.
but could be a paid audition. do you like a differnet word then testing?

I was trying to clarify what the scenario was. For further clarification, you're saying it could be a paid audition meaning because if he ends up wanting to use some of your images, but not hire you to shoot the catelog, you'll end up having been paid, essentially as stock, for the images he chose? If that's the situation, then yes, I'd call that shooting on spec (a whole 'nother can of worms) not testing in the ways that I've always understood it.

yes, the images created in the test could be used becasue they are quality images. in order to best highight my work, i had one of the best MUAs in florida working with me on the shoot..funny i have offered the shoot to several online models without a response...

see when i shoot "on spec"..i am given a scenario and i provide the imagery..

when i shoot stock..i usually hire a model for a few hours and create images that traditionally sell well with the photo buyers i deal with...

i am sure theres a glossary of terms for the industry somewhere, but i haven't found it yet.

Posted by piers: 

Posted by Doug Swinskey:   do you like a differnet word then testing?

That sounds like shooting on spec not testing, and you and the model should be getting paid for it, even if the client doesn't use or even like the pictures - and paid more if they do.

i expect to earn business and becasue i dont have an established name in the apparel industry, i was willing to prove my worth first. so as for what i "should be getting"..thats kinda my call..i get to decided whats worth what..you also have to into account..a lot of my competition for these kinds of jobs work for tearsheets...

now i get a couple catalogs under my belt..your damn straight their not seeing anything, before they anty up..

Posted by theda: 
I simply don't dig guilt by association.

and that would be my point exactley...dont judge me for the actions of another...but i have been..

Posted by Doug Swinskey: 

Posted by theda: 
I simply don't dig guilt by association.

and that would be my point exactley...dont judge me for the actions of another...but i have been..

Just watch out for spies.

Posted by Dan Hood: 

Posted by Doug Swinskey: 

Posted by theda: 
I simply don't dig guilt by association.

and that would be my point exactley...dont judge me for the actions of another...but i have been..

Just watch out for spies.

i dont know what your talking about..spies? what spies?

Posted by piers: 

Posted by Doug Swinskey:   do you like a differnet word then testing?

That sounds like shooting on spec not testing, and you and the model should be getting paid for it, even if the client doesn't use or even like the pictures - and paid more if they do.

Thank you Piers! More to say but no time now

Posted by theda: 
I agree with Mary. I see no reason why her association with people you've had problems with in the past shoudl have a bearin on the situation. She's not the one who was causing you trouble form what I undrstand of your post, rioght? I simply don't dig guilt by association.

Same here Theda. Guilt by association. Wow. Hard to believe people do this. It seems to have a parallel with racism.

Posted by Doug Swinskey: 

Posted by Dan Hood: 

Posted by Doug Swinskey: 

Posted by theda: 
I simply don't dig guilt by association.

and that would be my point exactley...dont judge me for the actions of another...but i have been..

Just watch out for spies.

i dont know what your talking about..spies? what spies?

Shhhhh dont you hear them!!??

Posted by Doug Swinskey: 
heres my delema..i went to her profile and its filled with images from an association of photographers that have made a carreer out of slamming me for my past associations...

Shoot her and show the fuckers who runs the show.

I know alot of local photographers who will not shoot with this model or that model, because she worked with this photographer or that photographer.

I will shoot them all turn those mothers out!  Well at all of them though, lol.

Posted by Doug Swinskey: 
heres my delema..i went to her profile and its filled with images from an association of photographers that have made a carreer out of slamming me for my past associations...

do you think this is a matter of what goes around..comes around?
she wont make or break my test..my skills will do that..
but i have a problem offering something so valuable, to what is apprently, an ally of my enemies....

your thoughts?

As was stated many times... what's the problem. It's a matter of redemption. And is she REALLY allied with them or just an innocent involvement.

Handle your business player. Get her this big gig and then what can your enemies say? Not a thing! At least not to her!

I just recently snagged two of one of my enemies BEST models, and they are doing MUCH better with me than they had been over the last year with them. How much bad shit can he or anyone say about me NOW? No matter what they say about me these girls simply say, "Here's my check from you. Here's my check from HIM!"

Get your paper and forget about the haters. UNLESS of course they speak the truth. Then that's another matter.

Turn those mothers out eh VM???? Old MC Hammer fan are we? LOL

Posted by Doug Swinskey: 
so i get this email from this lovely young woman..she is interested in working with me..now not being a "TFPer" it easy to politely decline her..

but as it happens, she appears a perfect fit for a client that i am testing with for swimwear catalog/brochure and website.....

he is also looking for a featured model..this gig could prove to land this girl some serious green and national attention..

now while i have some creative input in the selection of the model...it is of course the clients choice..

heres my delema..i went to her profile and its filled with images from an association of photographers that have made a carreer out of slamming me for my past associations...

do you think this is a matter of what goes around..comes around?
she wont make or break my test..my skills will do that..
but i have a problem offering something so valuable, to what is apprently, an ally of my enemies....

your thoughts?

He he he ... Yep,... I can relate to this..  Up here by me,...there are a few photogs who I don't care for all that much.. one who is known for being an asshole to models,...(many models report having problems while shooting with him)...and then there are the "out there" folks who are off in their own little world.....pretending to be aligned with some sort of affiliation (where only they are the only member)...in order to sound more professional.. (i guess).. and or to get checks to waste their time with him.....and so,..I see that they think they are all hot and cool... and shooting with models....and then I sort of make it a point of seeing if they would be interested in a test shoot of sorts..  ;-)   There is no better way to mess with someone other than "shareing" affiliates..  ;-)

   I don't know exactly what is going down, but just look out for No. 1

  JP

Posted by Joe Tomasone: 

come on joe, at least put something in your post....