SLE Photography wrote:
I have posted the winner for the 9-13-08 contest:
https://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thre … ost7373950

Due the the previously mentioned issues with the late votes I went back to the original 6 way tie.

I re-evaluated the 6 and after some reflection on them & discussion with a few people to help me articulate my choices I selected Eric Scott Fine Arts as the winner.

I appreciate everyones' patience with the delay in posting the vote, and I apologize to dgold for the confusion.

Good job to all of the finalists.

James...sorry, but, between dj's intentional 30 minute late vote(he knows better and therefore, to me, was a vote made to stir up shit for Jonathan's "late" vote that you had counted given the fact you were in-proccess and that Jon has no known quick-access to a computer whereas dj has a computer at his fingertips and is a co-administrator to the POD 18),and, the fact you had posted the results and sent me a congradulatory email - leave me with a sour taste all around.
I cannot, at this time, accept your apology.

You know, in the POD competition Tom ends voting when he deems it appropriate given a day's voting situation/activity, assumes control and responsibility and I cannot recall a retraction of an awarded victory over some belly aching.

Have fun.


David G

Chris Keeling wrote:

Huh?

This kind of answers my question I guess.  You guys are applying rules from one genre to another, and you just can't do that and still be subjective.  It's one of the reasons why I keep saying we need to do everything we can to attract more players so it will be a level playing field for everyone.

Both on the images I listed are so much better than everything else in yesterday's competition that it's like they are in different leagues.  But because the players are so genre specific and can't look outside of their comfort zone they aren't even being recognized.

The first image is by GW Burns, one of the best Glamour photographers in the world, and like I said, it didn't get a single vote because of the style it was shot in.  That's crazy talk, LoL.

I'm not picking on you or any of the other voters here, I'm merely pointing out that we need more diversity.  You are certainly entitled to your opinion and to vote for who you see fit....but do you see the problem with having a Competition full of voters who discount an image because it wasn't the way it came out of the camera?

I understand there is nothing I can do about it.  I'm just very dissapointed with what's happened to the Competition.  I play regularly in the PotD thread and was very excited when the 18+ version was started, but now it's just a place to showcase work.  All but a select few who only shoot a certain way have a chance at winning.

I just find it difficult to look at. There are tons of photos that I've seen around here with polaroid and film noise emulation looks that I like. If you removed the photo from that image, you'd still have a functional image.

I disagree that winning is limited to people who shoot a certain way, but I'd love to hear what you see as the pattern.

I do think that winning is limited to a few people, but it's not because of how they shoot.

dgold 2 wrote:

James...sorry, but, between dj's intentional 30 minute late vote(he knows better and therefore, to me, was a vote made to stir up shit for Jonathan's "late" vote that you had counted given the fact you were in-proccess and that Jon has no known quick-access to a computer whereas dj has a computer at his fingertips and is a co-administrator to the POD 18),and, the fact you had posted the results and sent me a congradulatory email - leave me with a sour taste all around.
I cannot, at this time, accept your apology.

You know, in the POD competition Tom ends voting when he deems it appropriate given a day's voting situation/activity, assumes control and resposibility and I cannot recall a retraction of an awarded victory over some belly aching.

Have fun.


David G

My first thought was why not call it a 6 way tie, and make dgold the winner of that and leave things as they stand. Then there's no controversy.

MC 2 wrote:
I just find it difficult to look at. There are tons of photos that I've seen around here with polaroid and film noise emulation looks that I like. If you removed the photo from that image, you'd still have a functional image.

I disagree that winning is limited to people who shoot a certain way, but I'd love to hear what you see as the pattern.

I do think that winning is limited to a few people, but it's not because of how they shoot.

Actually, yes it is.  Fernon wins with quality, but there are a few who win consistently simply because of genre.  I see fantastic images get ignored everyday because they aren't the right style, and those people simply shrug their shoulders and move on.

I've stated it over and over and over again in here.  The competition is populated by Fine Art guys and gals who apply their own rules to an image no matter what the genre of the image is....or they just don't even consider the image at all because of the genre.

There's nothing wrong with that, and I'm not asking anyone to be openminded about all images if they don't want to be, I'm merely saying we need more players for better balance.

Everytime I post this feeling in DT my inbox get's at least 2 or 3 messages from people agreeing with me, but none of them care enough to speak up here.  They simply stop playing.

Chris Keeling wrote:

Actually, yes it is.  Fernon wins with quality, but there are a few who win consistently simply because of genre.  I see fantastic images get ignored everyday because they aren't the right style, and those people simply shrug their shoulders and move on.

I've stated it over and over and over again in here.  The competition is populated by Fine Art guys and gals who apply their own rules to an image no matter what the genre of the image is....or they just don't even consider the image at all because of the genre.

There's nothing wrong with that, and I'm not asking anyone to be openminded about all images if they don't want to be, I'm merely saying we need more players for better balance.

Everytime I post this feeling in DT my inbox get's at least 2 or 3 messages from people agreeing with me, but none of them care enough to speak up here.  They simply stop playing.

Am I a fine art guy? I'm not sure I want to know what my genre is.

What about Bobby G? I really like his stuff, but the lighting has the qualities that I like from glamour.


I'm not asking so much as a direct respons, jsut thinking about what you said and curious about your take.


I think social factors have far more influence on votes that genre.

MC 2 wrote:

Am I a fine art guy? I'm not sure I want to know what my genre is.

What about Bobby G? I really like his stuff, but the lighting has the qualities that I like from glamour.


I'm not asking so much as a direct respons, jsut thinking about what you said and curious about your take.


I think social factors have far more influence on votes that genre.

I'm fighting a Losing battle.

T R Willmitch wrote:
For the time being the Picture of the Day thread will continue as it has.  However it is hard to say for how long.

As the site-wide competition emerges from the Beta stage the two contests will merge to become one.  The same is true of the 18+ Picture of the Day.  Tyler, James of SLE Photography, and I are working together to make this transition as smooth as possible.

Take care,
Tom Willmitch
Host, Model Mayhem’s Picture of the Day competition

Tyler has been directly in touch with Tom and myself about this in addition to the public posts that've been made about it.  We will definitely be involved in running the new contests.

The regular PotD will be transitioning to the new contest format soon, with the PotD 18+ following shortly after.

THIS WILL BE A BIG GAIN FOR THE CONTEST!  You will actually be able to post IMAGES, not just links.  You will each vote for your three favorites and the system will pick the winner based on that.  This will eliminate ties & make everyone able to give nods to more than one fave.  Bumping will be permanently gone.

The D.T. will probably be re-started in the new forum, and there's talk of an official winner's gallery of some kind (if it's automated I could actually catch up on a gallery of all the past winners!)

All the details of this are still being worked on, and for now the contest will continue as normal.  Formal announcements will be made before the official transition.

I just wanted to give you all a heads-up!

Cross-posted from the main contest thread

dgold 2 wrote:
Good job to all of the finalists.[/b]

James...sorry, but, between dj's intentional 30 minute late vote(he knows better and therefore, to me, was a vote made to stir up shit for Jonathan's "late" vote
David G

David- i wasn't intentionally voting late i was at a friend's home in Chicago and forget i was in a different time zone. I accept the mantle of stupidity but I'm not perfidity(sp).


Looks like all this will be moot.
The new contest could work well and seems to have taken a lot of the gripes expressed here into account.

Doesn't appear to be as much fun but there are a lot more players in the POD so I assume there will be a lot more in the POD 18+ .
Hope  there is more chat in the new discussion area.

It'll be very interesting to see how the entries and votes change.
Anyone care to make a guess and start a real arguement. LOL.
have a great weekend

dj

Bobby G wrote:
Hey guys....man, a little hurricane comes passing through town and I get to miss all the fun LOL...Just wanted to drop a note and say hello...Hopefully I can participate here real soon...

BobbyG

look forward to it. hope you and all yours are ok
dj

MC 2 wrote:

Am I a fine art guy? I'm not sure I want to know what my genre is.

What about Bobby G? I really like his stuff, but the lighting has the qualities that I like from glamour.


I'm not asking so much as a direct respons, jsut thinking about what you said and curious about your take.


I think social factors have far more influence on votes that genre.

well it'll be interesting to see if the new contest pulls in more participants
looks like the pod is booming.

i'm looking forward to watching how things shake out.

dj

remerrill wrote:
Your thoughts would truly be appreciated.

This is a serious request… not in any way a rant.

These are my entries for the last several days…
I thought that these were pretty good…
or am I totally nuts and heading off into the abyss.

My entry for Tuesday, September 16th 2008
18+ https://modelmayhem.com/pic.php?pid=8422335

for Wednesday, September 17, 2008
18+ https://modelmayhem.com/pic.php?pid=8422321

My Entry for Thursday, September 18th, 2008
18+ https://modelmayhem.com/pic.php?pid=8422306

My Entry for Friday, September 19th 2008
18+ https://modelmayhem.com/pic.php?pid=8460079

my entry for Saturday, September 20th, 2008
18+ https://modelmayhem.com/pic.php?pid=8478817

The first one is easy - what is it a photo of? It's not a portrait. It's not a figure study or documentary image. There's no copmpsotion in the story sense. The colors are cool.

The second one is better, but there's nothing to hook me.

The third and fourth don't suffer from that same problem as much, but why is she kneeling in water? I can't see any relevance and if there isn't any, why bother?

The last two make me wonder why they're in IR. The 4th shot could bscailly be a nromal protrait, but she's so white. I find it awkward rather than dramatic.

The IR in the 5th ends up being a little contradictory. First the color of her hair  bugs me and a big part is because it blends with the white bushes. Second they people in the background are a distraction. This would all make more sense as a straight color photo, especially with running shoes. but it's IR which make it look like she running on Mars. As an idea, that's totally cool, but ther are no fat guys in folding chairs or running shoes on Mars. The running shoes are compositionally awkward. Are they supposed to be ironic/funny? I'm not quite finding them that way, but if I did I'd point out that humor makes it a one or two view image as it's the same punch line over and over.

I think if you were two steps to your right and she was a little closer, You'd cut the people out of the background and she'd have more contrast around her hair. I think that there's no need ot have the bushes in the background and that the sand and rocks completely framing her would be more interesting. My guess is that ther's a stong tempation to inclued them baucs of how they look with the IR.

Not every photo has to tell a literal story, but the ones that don't have to be a specific genre, which these aren't. So I think the question ot ask is what is the story and are these photos telling the story they're intended to.

It's possible to make a great photo on estehtics alone, but you having something that's happening in the photo - a thing that is a frozen moment, a slice of time where something is happening - that's that engages the viewer and give them something to imagine right before or right after. The viewer has to supply the other 4 sense through their imagination. One sense is boring. So there has to me something for them to base their imagination on besides esthetics.

The shot answer would be there's no plot in any of these photos. Of if there is, it's being presented in a way that I can't see.

remerrill wrote:
Your thoughts would truly be appreciated.

This is a serious request… not in any way a rant.

These are my entries for the last several days…
I thought that these were pretty good…
or am I totally nuts and heading off into the abyss.

My entry for Tuesday, September 16th 2008
18+ https://modelmayhem.com/pic.php?pid=8422335

for Wednesday, September 17, 2008
18+ https://modelmayhem.com/pic.php?pid=8422321

My Entry for Thursday, September 18th, 2008
18+ https://modelmayhem.com/pic.php?pid=8422306

My Entry for Friday, September 19th 2008
18+ https://modelmayhem.com/pic.php?pid=8460079

my entry for Saturday, September 20th, 2008
18+ https://modelmayhem.com/pic.php?pid=8478817

WAY TO GO MIKE!

Thats an answer after my own heart up there......
And i agree with about 99% of it...i think i just have a bit more to add

I'll tell you up front that IR is a hard sell for me. I've seen it done well, but never with a nude. I'm not sayin' it's not possible....it's just a HARD sell.....

One thing about "nudescapes" as they've been come to called, is that there is a juxtaposition b/c the nude and the scape, but said juxtaposition creates a harmony, and perhaps goes far enough to echo the environment....When you throw IR in there- it's disruptive.

This is not the case in the first photo.
* I also have to interject in here that i give you brownie points on your editing- i don't hate it. And since I'm a retoucher, poor retouching is the toothpick in the brownies for me......*
In the first photo, the texture of the skin and the ground makes for a nice recipe, but you lost it in how awkard the model is- the framing, etc. Why frame her from the ass end? I think that pose *might* have been workable from another angle. There's no rule that says you can't shoot her 360 degrees to be able to look after wards in post and decide, or just plain LEARN in that situation what is best.

The second image- i see where you were going again, being born of the earth...yadda yadda....but the angle ruins it for me, as does just all the **** that is in the frame- it's just tooooo much. Nudescapes are about form and line, and you can't have anything intersecting the shapes and lines or it gets all gobble-dee-gook bleh.

The third- again ANGLE, and direction of the model: Twist the shoulder (left) back a bit more and put the knees together and you have a nice tight serpentine pose, and it would have been nicer with the light. Did you want her back in half shadow, short-lit, full light....and again with the lines cutting her torso in half.

The fourth i just think is poor image selection. Her expression is raunchy, which is dangerous in an open leg pose....I know you have a better one in the bunch!

The last is a cute candid and nothing more.

Hope this was helpful! Hugs!

MC 2 wrote:
The shot answer would be there's no plot in any of these photos. Of if there is, it's being presented in a way that I can't see.

Sexiest Carly wrote:
ok suppose i will put on my photog hat for this one....

WAY TO GO MIKE!

Thats an answer after my own heart up there......
And i agree with about 99% of it...i think i just have a bit more to add

I'll tell you up front that IR is a hard sell for me. I've seen it done well, but never with a nude. I'm not sayin' it's not possible....it's just a HARD sell.....

Hope this was helpful! Hugs!

Thank you too you both! This does help.

IR is a difficult medium… that is truly part of the reason I’m trying it.
And you are both right… I’m just not telling the story I want to tell.

anyone else... this does help....

Chris Keeling wrote:
Huh?

This kind of answers my question I guess.  You guys are applying rules from one genre to another, and you just can't do that and still be subjective.  It's one of the reasons why I keep saying we need to do everything we can to attract more players so it will be a level playing field for everyone.

Both on the images I listed are so much better than everything else in yesterday's competition that it's like they are in different leagues.  But because the players are so genre specific and can't look outside of their comfort zone they aren't even being recognized.

The first image is by GW Burns, one of the best Glamour photographers in the world, and like I said, it didn't get a single vote because of the style it was shot in.  That's crazy talk, LoL.

I'm not picking on you or any of the other voters here, I'm merely pointing out that we need more diversity.  You are certainly entitled to your opinion and to vote for who you see fit....but do you see the problem with having a Competition full of voters who discount an image because it wasn't the way it came out of the camera?

I understand there is nothing I can do about it.  I'm just very dissapointed with what's happened to the Competition.  I play regularly in the PotD thread and was very excited when the 18+ version was started, but now it's just a place to showcase work.  All but a select few who only shoot a certain way have a chance at winning.

Ok....well not to dig too deep or hurt anyone's feelings.... but this IS ModelMayhem.... the majority of the membership isn't exactly the cream of the crop in the world's photography.... and honestly i don't think GW is on that list either.
Don't get me wrong, i love GW- have met him, talked with him, etc....but aside from the workshops, photographically what is he doing?  To say he's the best glamour photographer in the world, or one of is just nonsensical. For that we look to Ellen von Unwerth, David LaChapelle (celebu-glam), etc.... and modelmayhemer's aren't without merrit- we have some superstars on here to balance things out a bit... but let's not exagerrate someone from Modelmayhem-land to the Real working commercial/art land that is out there.

That  being said- the majority of the POD 18+ that gets the attention are the images that are the most simple, easy-to-view-doesn't-require-a-lot-of thought images. Take Marina's win the other day:
https://www.modelmayhem.com/pic.php?pid=4200024

Photographically speaking it's an awkward photo. It's top-heavy, allowing for too much room for the logo, and since it's top heavy Marina's legs look toothpicky.
The hands and feet are awkward, especially the hand that is closest to the camera, which in turn has been contorted a bit naturally by the mechanics of a lens. . . .

Complete coincidence that both images are GW's- but my point stands that it is the "in your face T&A" that tends to win out over a nicely composed artfully toughtful picture like the ones you had previously pointed out.

Thus is the nature of the MM beast, and hence we have the dt thread.....

I really see a LOT of images that I feel merit more worth than the winners i've seen, but I believe that art wins out over everything in the end, so i'm here to balance it out on that end.

Fernon Nude wrote:
is there an 18+ winners gallery?

Sort of.
It's way out of date, I'm working on it.

Fernon Nude wrote:
is there an 18+ winners gallery?

not a gallery but i made lists - check out the list on my port.

jandj studios wrote:
still capacited. writing on a friends. doesn't seem to matter as no one is writing here.
guess this discussion thread thing wasn't as good as an idea as I hoped.
if a new POD18+ contest is ever started i'll just drop this.

hope you all are well and not taking - health- for granted. live each day as if it is your last- it might very well be.

dj

Dj, if you've seen the format in the new forum there'll be an automated thread to discuss each day's images so we'll only need to keep the DT going a little longer. 

SLE Photography wrote:

Dj, if you've seen the format in the new forum there'll be an automated thread to discuss each day's images so we'll only need to keep the DT going a little longer. 

ok- will do- sorry for the negativity just a little discouraged.

Novus Photography wrote:
Are photos of a Will Santillo-esque nature acceptable? I mean, one persons art is another persons' porn, right?

never heard of him so i can't say. as long as it follows the MM rules against porn- ie. penetration,etc. then it can be entered.
as for that one person's porn is another's person art thing never did agrre with that. feeling that porn should be illegal and feeling that porn exists are to me two separate things. Art by definition is not porn as it communicates beyond the merely purient. Of course therein lies the rub. How do you define purient?
anyway as i say unless it violates MM rules enter it

Novus Photography wrote:
Are photos of a Will Santillo-esque nature acceptable? I mean, one persons art is another persons' porn, right?

It looks like his stuff's mostly implied sex.  No actual or visible penetration, faces poised near pubic areas but not touching, etc.
So probably ok.

Chris Keeling wrote:

Actually, yes it is.  Fernon wins with quality, but there are a few who win consistently simply because of genre.  I see fantastic images get ignored everyday because they aren't the right style, and those people simply shrug their shoulders and move on.

I've stated it over and over and over again in here.  The competition is populated by Fine Art guys and gals who apply their own rules to an image no matter what the genre of the image is....or they just don't even consider the image at all because of the genre.

There's nothing wrong with that, and I'm not asking anyone to be openminded about all images if they don't want to be, I'm merely saying we need more players for better balance.

Everytime I post this feeling in DT my inbox get's at least 2 or 3 messages from people agreeing with me, but none of them care enough to speak up here.  They simply stop playing.

ill speek up...