Posted by CocoBongo: 
It seems inevitible, but most of the new members that are signing up are either borderline wannabe photographers or hobbyists who never modeled before in their life.

It's time this site starts reviewing profiles and only allow the ones that are at least resemble like they they could be a model or photographer.

Now exactly what constitutes as a "wannabe photographer or hobbyist" Because from what I see on your profile you are " an amatuer photographer trying to break into fashion photography" Everyone has to get their start somewhere, hey every YOU! Your an amatuer photographer correct, well haven't the models who have worked with you taken a chance out on you?

Now from what I've learned, art is art. Whether or not it is up to your standards is not an issue. An ARTIST sees something in their work and they stand behind it, they believe in with a passion.

I guess I would be what you want to call a "wannabe" model. LOL. Yes, I have 6 shots up of me courtesy of my Sprint phone. It's not much, but it's gotten me the opportunity to schedule 2 photoshoots next weekend, and another after that. All due to Model Mayhem photographers who see something in ME!

You have alot of nerve coming up in here talking about only allowing the ones "who at least resemble like they could be a model or photographer" WTF?! In this world anyone can be a model, as long as they are marketable. Again, just because someone doesn't fit your standard of beauty means nothing. Now if you haven't figured that out by now then you must plan on being an "amatuer" photographer for the long haul.

Alright now, shi I'm getting off my soapbox now. I gotta head to work. Working the graveyard shift tonight!

~Shayuma

Posted by Shayuma: 

Posted by CocoBongo: 
It seems inevitible, but most of the new members that are signing up are either borderline wannabe photographers or hobbyists who never modeled before in their life.

It's time this site starts reviewing profiles and only allow the ones that are at least resemble like they they could be a model or photographer.

Now exactly what constitutes as a "wannabe photographer or hobbyist" Because from what I see on your profile you are " an amatuer photographer trying to break into fashion photography" Everyone has to get their start somewhere, hey every YOU! Your an amatuer photographer correct, well haven't the models who have worked with you taken a chance out on you?

Now from what I've learned, art is art. Whether or not it is up to your standards is not an issue. An ARTIST sees something in their work and they stand behind it, they believe in with a passion.

I guess I would be what you want to call a "wannabe" model. LOL. Yes, I have 6 shots up of me courtesy of my Sprint phone. It's not much, but it's gotten me the opportunity to schedule 2 photoshoots next weekend, and another after that. All due to Model Mayhem photographers who see something in ME!

You have alot of nerve coming up in here talking about only allowing the ones "who at least resemble like they could be a model or photographer" WTF?! In this world anyone can be a model, as long as they are marketable. Again, just because someone doesn't fit your standard of beauty means nothing. Now if you haven't figured that out by now then you must plan on being an "amatuer" photographer for the long haul.

Alright now, shi I'm getting off my soapbox now. I gotta head to work. Working the graveyard shift tonight!

~Shayuma

You go girl!!!

Posted by David Holloway: 

Posted by CocoBongo: 
Like I said, if you just want to have fun and play around and meet people, this is a great place. If you want to find a semi-professional model or photographer, then you are better off with the other paysites that at least review people.

That's funny.... There are big time pros on here both model and photographer alike.. I still haven't heard how you became qualified to determine who is or is not a photographer or model....

And if this is a site for models and fashion/glamour photography (including ever genre in between using models) I am still waiting to see that perfect portfolio that would qualify you to be on this site...

It is funny how he is complaining about amateurs, but yet he, himself is an amateur when it comes to working with real, living models. I don't see any actual photos of models in his portfolio here. Who is to say he isn't just a GWC or something? I mean, I can take landscape photos that are just as good as his...all it takes is a nice camera (sometimes not even that), and knowledge of Photo Shop or some other editing program.

Posted by Rebecca Alsbury: 

Posted by David Holloway: 

Posted by CocoBongo: 
Like I said, if you just want to have fun and play around and meet people, this is a great place. If you want to find a semi-professional model or photographer, then you are better off with the other paysites that at least review people.

That's funny.... There are big time pros on here both model and photographer alike.. I still haven't heard how you became qualified to determine who is or is not a photographer or model....

And if this is a site for models and fashion/glamour photography (including ever genre in between using models) I am still waiting to see that perfect portfolio that would qualify you to be on this site...

It is funny how he is complaining about amateurs, but yet he, himself is an amateur when it comes to working with real, living models. I don't see any actual photos of models in his portfolio here. Who is to say he isn't just a GWC or something? I mean, I can take landscape photos that are just as good as his...all it takes is a nice camera (sometimes not even that), and knowledge of Photo Shop or some other editing program.

That's probably because his attitude SUX. No one would want to put up with that 'attitude' from an AMATUER. The stone buildings could care less. With the way he views people, I strongly doubt that anyone on here would be willing to ever work with him...unless they haven't found their way to readin this thread.

Posted by LarryB: 
Maybe somebody should open a site for people who were never beginners?  www.IWasBornWithALoadedPortfolio.com?

lol

that's me that's me!! (raises hand and wiggles)

my first shoot was for Skin Two Magazine and i did a few.My second was with Trevor Watson, some published.
Lots other things BUT When i began re-modelling last year HA! it was coz i met an awesome photographer  DM Gremlin so I dont expect to ever have a bad pic....wait I just looked at my profile again...

hmmmmm

well, thats not the photographers fault!

Posted by Doug Swinskey: 
ok, ok, let me settle this..i volunteer to pick who stays and who goes...

Ok quiet everone Doug is deciding what the verdict on CocoBongo is?

Posted by David Holloway: 

Posted by Doug Swinskey: 
ok, ok, let me settle this..i volunteer to pick who stays and who goes...

Ok quiet everone Doug is deciding what the verdict on CocoBongo is?

hell man..i was done with him a while ago..i was reviewing your profile...

Posted by Doug Swinskey: 

Posted by David Holloway: 

Posted by Doug Swinskey: 
ok, ok, let me settle this..i volunteer to pick who stays and who goes...

Ok quiet everone Doug is deciding what the verdict on CocoBongo is?

hell man..i was done with him a while ago..i was reviewing your profile...

Man I am in trouble now......LOL

Posted by CocoBongo: 
Like I said, if you just want to have fun and play around and meet people, this is a great place. If you want to find a semi-professional model or photographer, then you are better off with the other paysites that at least review people.

Hey... you will not find ME on other paysites... yet... I am a full time, professional photographer...

Industry wise, I think that photo.net and MM are the most useful sources of info on the net for me and this one here for networking as well. Oh... damn... photo.net must be for unprofessionals too... it's free!

How shall I say it politely... well, I'll give you a nice advise:

"Be careful! Don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out."

Don't want to get anybody hurt.

Posted by CocoBongo: 
It seems inevitible, but most of the new members that are signing up are either borderline wannabe photographers or hobbyists who never modeled before in their life.

It's time this site starts reviewing profiles and only allow the ones that are at least resemble like they they could be a model or photographer.

So are you suggesting we go back to high school and go back to our little groups too? Wannabes have to start somewhere too especially that are serious about this and eventually want to make money.

Yes there are those certain few that ruin for everyone else but are you going to judge everyone based on that? Personally I think your suggestion is quite well shall I say it? Retarded.

Posted by CocoBongo: 
Like I said, if you just want to have fun and play around and meet people, this is a great place. If you want to find a semi-professional model or photographer, then you are better off with the other paysites that at least review people.

Now judging by your portfolio in the 'About Me' it says:

I'm an Amateur Photographer trying to enter the fashion/modeling industry.

I'm scratching my head at this compared to you first elitist statement. If you want certain profiles deleted because they are wannabes in your eyes maybe you should re-think about your being here since you are amature yourself.

Those who live in glass houses should not be casting stones.

Posted by Doug Swinskey: 

Posted by David Holloway: 

Posted by Doug Swinskey: 
ok, ok, let me settle this..i volunteer to pick who stays and who goes...

Ok quiet everone Doug is deciding what the verdict on CocoBongo is?

hell man..i was done with him a while ago..i was reviewing your profile...

I'm hiding

Posted by CocoBongo: 
I agree, I'm an amateur and I probably don't belong here either, but I'm not saying amateurs don't belong here either, I'm only suggesting that if this place doesn't start filtering the portfolios that aren't even from photographers but from others just trying to advertise their own products (I think even saw one for a swimwear company), then its going to be less useful to everyone here.

That has to do with spam and fake accounts thats completely different from talking about quality of profiles.

Posted by CocoBongo: 
I agree, I'm an amateur and I probably don't belong here either, but I'm not saying amateurs don't belong here either, I'm only suggesting that if this place doesn't start filtering the portfolios that aren't even from photographers but from others just trying to advertise their own products (I think even saw one for a swimwear company), then its going to be less useful to everyone here.

Okay... you are getting up there in participation... this is your fourth post.

Now... there is a VERY simple secret, if you don't like the profile, style or message of a photographer/gwc or model or any shade of us wannabe's... SKIP IT!

There is enough info and cool people here that you don't have to worry about the fringe...

Keep on shooting, participate, ask questions in the forums and get the info and contacts you like...

Good luck in your beginning career.

BTW, your initial post is NOT enticing to those pros that you may WANT to get helpful info from. You want to learn and get ahead, don't piss off those, that could help you, with arrogant comments.

Posted by CocoBongo: 
I agree, I'm an amateur and I probably don't belong here either, but I'm not saying amateurs don't belong here either, I'm only suggesting that if this place doesn't start filtering the portfolios that aren't even from photographers but from others just trying to advertise their own products (I think even saw one for a swimwear company), then its going to be less useful to everyone here.

Now your back peddling from your original post.. Your entire post was about wannabee photographers and models with no mention of people advertising products..

You opened your mouth and inserted your foot and got called to the carpet for it.

One thing to keep in mind is that just because someone does not meet your definition of a photographer or a model does not mean they are not.

You made the mistake of letting your ego and elitist attitude take over.

Udo is right.. Not a good way to start on a site with alot of pros both models and photogrpaher..

Posted by CocoBongo: 
I agree, I'm an amateur and I probably don't belong here either, but I'm not saying amateurs don't belong here either, I'm only suggesting that if this place doesn't start filtering the portfolios that aren't even from photographers but from others just trying to advertise their own products (I think even saw one for a swimwear company), then its going to be less useful to everyone here.

As I said, we do filter. Why shouldn't a swimwear company be listed among the wardrobe stylists? Or should we just not list wardrobe stylist, hair stylists and make-up artists?

Posted by theda: 

Posted by CocoBongo: 
I agree, I'm an amateur and I probably don't belong here either, but I'm not saying amateurs don't belong here either, I'm only suggesting that if this place doesn't start filtering the portfolios that aren't even from photographers but from others just trying to advertise their own products (I think even saw one for a swimwear company), then its going to be less useful to everyone here.

As I said, we do filter. Why shouldn't a swimwear company be listed among the wardrobe stylists? Or should we just not list wardrobe stylist, hair stylists and make-up artists? 

Good call Theda!

Posted by CocoBongo: 
(I think even saw one for a swimwear company), then its going to be less useful to everyone here.

I'm trying to figure out where this is a bad thing? Let's see take stugling a model (called A from now on) and swimwear company (we will call B) A write B B likes look of A. B sends A swimsuit to shoot in with photographer C. All 3 get images.

Humm sounds like a good ide3a to me!

Posted by Robb Radford: 

Posted by CocoBongo: 
(I think even saw one for a swimwear company), then its going to be less useful to everyone here.

I'm trying to figure out where this is a bad thing? Let's see take stugling a model (called A from now on) and swimwear company (we will call B) A write B B likes look of A. B sends A swimsuit to shoot in with photographer C. All 3 get images.

Humm sounds like a good ide3a to me!

Me too.

Posted by Donald Bates: 
I hope the site never gets too elitist or turns into a bunch of cliques.

Too late. I'm already in Theda's clique ... Wait. No. I think she's in mine.

Posted by Eric Muss-Barnes: 

Posted by Donald Bates: 
I hope the site never gets too elitist or turns into a bunch of cliques.

Too late. I'm already in Theda's clique ... Wait. No. I think she's in mine.

personally, i wouldn't belong to a clique, that would have someone like me, as a member...

but i think i am a member of the "elitist dickwads" (courtesy of VM)

Posted by Alexandra Paris: 

Posted by CocoBongo: 
Like I said, if you just want to have fun and play around and meet people, this is a great place. If you want to find a semi-professional model or photographer, then you are better off with the other paysites that at least review people.

Now judging by your portfolio in the 'About Me' it says:

I'm an Amateur Photographer trying to enter the fashion/modeling industry.

I'm scratching my head at this compared to you first elitist statement. If you want certain profiles deleted because they are wannabes in your eyes maybe you should re-think about your being here since you are amature yourself.

Those who live in glass houses should not be casting stones.

I think he was talking about amatures who are not serious.

Posted by Donald Bates: 

Posted by CocoBongo: 
I agree, I'm an amateur and I probably don't belong here either, but I'm not saying amateurs don't belong here either, I'm only suggesting that if this place doesn't start filtering the portfolios that aren't even from photographers but from others just trying to advertise their own products (I think even saw one for a swimwear company), then its going to be less useful to everyone here.

That has to do with spam and fake accounts thats completely different from talking about quality of profiles.

Truthfully, there's not much you can do to stop the spam before it gets in you know? I mean, how many emails can you actually block, most of them just get filtered. It's the same with MM, the spam is gonna be there it's just a matter of time getting it out. I'd say there has been an immediate response when needed and all we can do is keep the moderators informed if someone is out of line. I have seen some pretty sketchy portfolios but I just don't add them as friends that's my solution! So if you're wondering why I didn't add you, it's because you don't seem to be a real photographer, you're just some guy faking it. It's just weird when a "photographer" says "Hey I like long walks on the beach what can I say?" or whatever the hell he says and then has no pictures or maybe one random photo. And he has a ton of friends! It's our responsibility to filter spam and that is number one. I want to be nice but I don't add nobodys, no way.

Posted by Herb Way: 
Having standards is not necessarily being elitist.  Many years ago I was a founding board member of a very promising organization of professional photographers that fell apart when they refused to require portfolio reviews for admission and opened the doors to everyone.  When this becomes a pay site (and it will), most of the amateurs will weed themselves out.

I think the steady decline in the quality and relevance of communication in the forum threads is an indication of how the site is becoming amateurish.

I've never seen any group or institution practice "portfolio review" and remain worthwhile.  The art world if full of people like Warhol, Pollock, ALL the impressionists, etc. who had to go outside of the traditional systems to get their work seen because the people responsible for "reviewing" their work didn't have a clue.  This to me is the true beauty of the web:  All you need is your work, a modem and the courage to show your work to the world...The first [and possibly last] true democracy.

The minute this place adopts such a policy, It will be worthless, and I for one will be out of here.  In my opinion, any worthwhile artist would bit his/her tongue out before even suggesting something so exclusionary and politicized.

If you think the forums are becoming amateurish and declininig in quality, it's incumbent upon you to try and improve them.  They're YOUR forums too.

Posted by AshleyDanielle: 
He does make a point though and I'm glad I personally read this thread.
If everyone and anyone that has a camera will be allowed on this site and is not a legit photographer YES, I want to know that.
For my own piece of mind and safety I want to know the people I am working with are of a professional nature and have a common goal of getting good photos and no other reason.
It's something I wasn't really aware of that there are people that are on here that are not in the business.

That's just from my prospective on this.

Girls with web cam photos are models? Maybe I need to go back and reread that.

Your own "piece of mind and safety" are your own responsibility.  If you can't make an intelligent decision on who to work with and who not to based on their portfolio and your interaction with them, you really do need to rethink what business you're in.  As I stated in a previous thread: USE YOUR HEAD.

As for girls with webcams "not being models," I found one of the best models I've ever worked with through web pics she'd posted online.  If I'd applied your "standards" to her, a vitally important part of my archive wouldn't exist.  Back in the day, it was common to make decisions regarding models based on a fuzzy, amateurish polaroid SX-70 image.  A "real" photographer can see what will and what won't work from any photo imo.  There are times when I'd actually rather not have to filter out the bells and whistles other photographers/mua's, etc. have applied to a model just to see what he/she really looks like.

Posted by Melvin Moten Jr: 

Posted by Herb Way: 
Having standards is not necessarily being elitist.  Many years ago I was a founding board member of a very promising organization of professional photographers that fell apart when they refused to require portfolio reviews for admission and opened the doors to everyone.  When this becomes a pay site (and it will), most of the amateurs will weed themselves out.

I think the steady decline in the quality and relevance of communication in the forum threads is an indication of how the site is becoming amateurish.

I've never seen any group or institution practice "portfolio review" and remain worthwhile.  The art world if full of people like Warhol, Pollock, ALL the impressionists, etc. who had to go outside of the traditional systems to get their work seen because the people responsible for "reviewing" their work didn't have a clue.  This to me is the true beauty of the web:  All you need is your work, a modem and the courage to show your work to the world...The first [and possibly last] true democracy.

The minute this place adopts such a policy, It will be worthless, and I for one will be out of here.  In my opinion, any worthwhile artist would bit his/her tongue out before even suggesting something so exclusionary and politicized.

If you think the forums are becoming amateurish and declininig in quality, it's incumbent upon you to try and improve them.  They're YOUR forums too.

Very well Said!!

Posted by Melvin Moten Jr: 

Posted by AshleyDanielle: 
He does make a point though and I'm glad I personally read this thread.
If everyone and anyone that has a camera will be allowed on this site and is not a legit photographer YES, I want to know that.
For my own piece of mind and safety I want to know the people I am working with are of a professional nature and have a common goal of getting good photos and no other reason.
It's something I wasn't really aware of that there are people that are on here that are not in the business.

That's just from my prospective on this.

Girls with web cam photos are models? Maybe I need to go back and reread that.

Your own "piece of mind and safety" are your own responsibility.  If you can't make an intelligent decision on who to work with and who not to based on their portfolio and your interaction with them, you really do need to rethink what business you're in.  As I stated in a previous thread: USE YOUR HEAD.

hmm just believe I said that. I take my responsibility of whom I work with very seriously. Knowing how a site runs helps that out now doesn't it. I also don't need to re-think the business I'm in lol I have a good head on my shoulders. We also spent about $700 this weekend for two tfp shoots I did (clothes, lodging, food etc). I know this weekend I did work with two really good photographers. I'd hope if I'm going to take the time, effort and money to up-date "our" portofolios with photographers they are actual legit photographers that I'm working with. So someone can sign up and just be under a catagory of model or photographer or MUA and not be any of those things really. I'm just more aware now that I best be more careful is what I was saying! Which I will be.

As for girls with webcams "not being models," I found one of the best models I've ever worked with through web pics she'd posted online.  If I'd applied your "standards" to her, a vitally important part of my archive wouldn't exist.  Back in the day, it was common to make decisions regarding models based on a fuzzy, amateurish polaroid SX-70 image.  A "real" photographer can see what will and what won't work from any photo imo.  There are times when I'd actually rather not have to filter out the bells and whistles other photographers/mua's, etc. have applied to a model just to see what he/she really looks like.

You do not know my "standards" lol That's great you worked with a girl you found from webcam pics and she was the best ever. Are you saying all girls that put up a photo makes them a model? Is it any photographer can make any girl a model? So the models that put in the time, hard work and effort means nothing, because you can make anyone a model? Models put in a lot of time, money and effort to learn their trade to do good work and to keep into shape for the type of modeling they do. I always thought it was a joint effort between a model and a photographer that made great photos. IF all we had to do is put up webcam pics and then we became models then what do we need photographers for? Then we could just take all our own pics and submit them for jobs.
That won't happen because no one will accept those. You need photos and need to be able to know how to pose, what you need in your wardrobe. Know how to cover up things when you're having a bad week and yet still have to shoot. Sure I could have webcam pics and pose myself always in the way I look best to put off as being good. Yet then you're not seeing me, you're seeing what I want you to see of me.
Everyone starting out I agree has to start somewhere, be it a couple webcam pics to get your face/body seen to get with a local photographer to start you out and go from there. See if you have what it takes to be a model and learn the trade. When I started out I didn't consider myself a model. I was checking it out to see if I could. It's very hard work and for someone of my size it was something I really had to find if I could get work in this market before I considered myself a model.
I agree a good "clean" head and body shot are an essential part of a portfolio. Most professional models have this in their books.

ugh I don't want to argue with anyone and not sure if i'm getting my point across anyway, long weekend.
Have a good week