Kitapanda wrote:
I feel like this point can't be stressed enough.

The original poster of the other thread is not simply "caucasian". She is mixed, black and russian.

She stated this in the original post.

She also stated that her original comment was geared not to those who actually are biracial, but to those who try to pass themselves off as being half puerto rican or native american or eskimo or whatever when more than likely if they ARE part of that race it's from several generations down the line.

Life and racial issues do not function as a "whites vs. minorities" operation.

If we're not gonna let the topic die we can at least keep it in that one thread.

as i said in the last thread. ive come across several models in my 20+ years in this industry,that are as black as the ace of spades and yet claim to have no connection with african people and in fact hate them.to hate somone that looks like you is akin to hating yourself. as a result ive found it almost impossible to deal with that type of model. when i see the conversation heading in that familiar direction i always cut them loose at this point in my career. that is my problem with black people that claim other with no clarification as to what they mean. i also asked the mods to create more catagories. jamaicans can be black and generally are but they are not african americans, neither are nigerians or somalis. when im searching for a black or asian model i dont look in "other". therefor several models in that catagory miss out on my casting calls.

hasan wrote:

as i said in the last thread. ive come across several models in my 20+ years in this industry,that are as black as the ace of spades and yet claim to have no connection with african people and in fact hate them.to hate somone that looks like you is akin to hating yourself. as a result ive found it almost impossible to deal with that type of model. when i see the conversation heading in that familiar direction i always cut them loose at this point in my career. that is my problem with black people that claim other with no clarification as to what they mean. i also asked the mods to create more catagories. jamaicans can be black and generally are but they are not african americans, neither are nigerians or somalis. when im searching for a black or asian model i dont look in "other". therefor several models in that catagory miss out on my casting calls.

Hasan, I often think how sad to be 'other' not truly belonging to anything.
As I said in the locked thread on this subject you have the right to think and
call yourself what you want and if you choose other simply because you have
mixed parents, fine but if you're doing it to distance yourself from your heritage
and race how very sad.  Same for those horse hair weaves and blue contact
lenses.  If you just like how you look in them thats cool but ask yourself, why do
I like them.  Why do I need blonde hair?  As I also said I don't have strong
typical Africian features but I will always call myself a Black man.  However
thats me and other people have the right to call themselves what they want
also.  If that reason is because you truly are of a mixed racial background then
its all good but if its because of a hatred of other Blacks...
The previous thread received a huge response with many models angry this
subject was even brought up.  Some felt what they call themselves is their
bussiness and thats very true.  However as a people we are screwed up we
get angry when Whites call us 'n' but its cool for rappers and Black comedians
to do it.  Its okay when young Black men kill each other but don't let some
White cop do it.  A bit off subject I know.

Tony Lawrence wrote:

Hasan, I often think how sad to be 'other' not truly belonging to anything.
As I said in the locked thread on this subject you have the right to think and
call yourself what you want and if you choose other simply because you have
mixed parents, fine but if you're doing it to distance yourself from your heritage
and race how very sad.  Same for those horse hair weaves and blue contact
lenses.  If you just like how you look in them thats cool but ask yourself, why do
I like them.  Why do I need blonde hair?  As I also said I don't have strong
typical Africian features but I will always call myself a Black man.  However
thats me and other people have the right to call themselves what they want
also.  If that reason is because you truly are of a mixed racial background then
its all good but if its because of a hatred of other Blacks...
The previous thread received a huge response with many models angry this
subject was even brought up.  Some felt what they call themselves is their
bussiness and thats very true.  However as a people we are screwed up we
get angry when Whites call us 'n' but its cool for rappers and Black comedians
to do it.  Its okay when young Black men kill each other but don't let some
White cop do it.  A bit off subject I know.

I wrote this in a private message while that other thread was still heated. Since you brought up that maybe being "other" was sad, I thought it was fitting here.

"A while back I had that I was mixed with Cherokee in my profile, which I am, among other things.

Someone wrote me and asked why is it that anytime someone black claims they are mixed, it is with Cherokee Indian.

Now, I have NO idea and I told him as such and was personally offended by his question.

So it seems he was assuming of me what Sara has assumed of other people.

My point is that is is not just Sara who seems to think it's an awful lot of mixed people around here.

But maybe, and not saying this is right, it is a phenomenon of us mixed people searching for an identity and then trying to hold on to that identity.

but just like black people, we want a group to identify with too. And no, mixed people can't always fit in with black people(I don't think most people know how true this is) and most certainly not white people.

I think it's human tendency to want to be a part of a group. I do not like race, because it implies that our differences are biological and more than just skin deep. However we do have cultures. And we all really do want to belong.

That was a very long and convoluted way of saying it's not just Sara who is looking for that divide between "other" and "black" and even "white". I really don't think she was trying to be offensive to black women. Right now, "race" is the easiest way to define oneself and until we as humans, can rise above it, people will continue to try to draw the dividing line.

We can't just be who we choose to be because if I choose to be white...well, that won't fly, even though my mother is as white as white can be. "

So, I think it is sad for some people to be other, IF they can not come to terms with who they are. But some of us can.

I just wish we had a better word than "other." LOL

Angel Tara wrote:

I wrote this in a private message while that other thread was still heated. Since you brought up that maybe being "other" was sad, I thought it was fitting here.

"A while back I had that I was mixed with Cherokee in my profile, which I am, among other things.

Someone wrote me and asked why is it that anytime someone black claims they are mixed, it is with Cherokee Indian.

Now, I have NO idea and I told him as such and was personally offended by his question.

So it seems he was assuming of me what Sara has assumed of other people.

My point is that is is not just Sara who seems to think it's an awful lot of mixed people around here.

But maybe, and not saying this is right, it is a phenomenon of us mixed people searching for an identity and then trying to hold on to that identity.

but just like black people, we want a group to identify with too. And no, mixed people can't always fit in with black people(I don't think most people know how true this is) and most certainly not white people.

I think it's human tendency to want to be a part of a group. I do not like race, because it implies that our differences are biological and more than just skin deep. However we do have cultures. And we all really do want to belong.

That was a very long and convoluted way of saying it's not just Sara who is looking for that divide between "other" and "black" and even "white". I really don't think she was trying to be offensive to black women. Right now, "race" is the easiest way to define oneself and until we as humans, can rise above it, people will continue to try to draw the dividing line.

We can't just be who we choose to be because if I choose to be white...well, that won't fly, even though my mother is as white as white can be. "

So, I think it is sad for some people to be other, IF they can not come to terms with who they are. But some of us can.

I just wish we had a better word than "other." LOL

First let me say I have always admired you.  You are beautifull and intellegent.
Now thats over...  I think people who really are of mixed parentage  can rightfully
check other or whatever they so desire.  This is for those who truly have
Black parents.  As I stated before I don't have typical Black features but no
one would mistake me for White.  I'm a brother with a tan.  I'm disturbed by
Black people who have all or mostly Black folks in their family coming with that
I'm Puerto Rican or Indian crap.  Many of these so called Indians have only
seen Indians on T.V.  They have a negative self image and are so full of group
hate they would choose to be from Mars if it meant not being Black.  I
know Black folks who believe that most Africians are still fighting lions and
fighting with spears.  We also have many Black men and women who choose
not to date Black people.  Again for the record about 85% of all Black
Americans have White or other racial group somewhere in their family but that
doesn't make you White or other.  If you want to check other or believe because
your great ,great grandmother was part Indian, you are.  Even though your
mom and dad both were born in Compton.  I choose to honor my heritage respecting other people and races for their choices but feeling somehow horrible for
so many people who would rather be 'other' then Black.

Anier wrote:
***Before you begin reading my opinion just know that I mean NO DISRESPECT to nobody. Okay... I'm just enjoying the different insights. I DO NOT want to start a "He say/She say" BS. Also, I'm not going to be checking up on who reads or replies to it. I read others' posts and I respected it. So, I expect the same***

I was going to post something completely different but I just deleted it. This is a delicate topic. I'll start it off by putting the following quote (no, I don't know who said it... but I saw it in the internet and it makes much sense; therefore, I will repeat it in the post):

----"FIND YOUR OWN ROOTS... WATER YOUR OWN TREE"

What I think - as an individual - and letting you know as my personal opinion (don't have anything against any others') is the following:

Regular conversation:

a) "hey, wassup... so, what are you?"

b) "American"

a) "no, no,... WHAT ARE YOU?"

b) "American...?"

a) "I mean, WHAT ARE YOU; as in, race/background/bloodline...?"

b) "oh, I'm..." (and there you go... you reply WHAT EVER IT IS THAT YOU ARE because in the end... it goes back to ORIGIN. No matter how far it goes... It comes back.)

Unlike many people - not necessarily being their fault - I'm not brainwashed. I'm definitely NOT a victim of what I call: ETHNIC PARALYSIS. I know who I am and where I come from. My parents always emphasized my culture, my roots, my heritage.

----"FIND YOUR OWN ROOTS... WATER YOUR OWN TREE"

I'll admit... when I was like 6-7 yrs of age... I couldn't stand being called "Hispanic" or "Dominican"; Also, I didn't want to speak Spanish or anything because I would be made fun of. I wanted to FIT IN. Didn't want to feel like the "outcast" (especially at that age). In the end... I was kind of ashamed. But I was very-very young and wrong. I didn't know any better and we know how kids can be…

I thank, God, for my parents’ constant influence (this I recommend to whom ever wants their kids to keep the roots strong... I intend on doing so... Doesn't matter if in the future I'm located and living in Thailand… They’ll know their heritage. For example, If I were to marry an Indian female… I’ll influence both languages and cultures). They always took me to the Dominican Republic, every single year of my life... Even living out there for many years. Just so I could know what I have and so I could appreciate it and not let it go. They didn't let me fall into thinking I am "american" because "american" isn't a race/bloodline/ethnicity. We're all immigrants in this land except the natives. The "White Man" makes it seem as if this is their land; as if they always lived here...  calling US immigrants... MINORITIES... "go back to you countries," etc... 

I always say, I wouldn't mind packin' up and heading out to MY MOTHER LAND. That's where I'm from, now... I will do it just as soon as THEY pack up and go to their "mother land" as well, lol. But, it's gone so far from it that they're already considered something else. Many whites in this country - like certain Blacks, Hispanics, Asians, etc. - don't know anything related with their REAL culture or heritage; therefore, I don't blame the outcome... just the prejudice.

----"FIND YOUR OWN ROOTS... WATER YOUR OWN TREE"

How are you going to be "Hispanic" and not KNOW your Spanish?

How are you going to be "African" and not know which ever dialect was spoken by your ancestors?

How can people just let their cultures be washed away!!??? It is you, it's what MAKES you.

----"FIND YOUR OWN ROOTS... WATER YOUR OWN TREE"

I'm a Dominican born in the U.S. I accept the term "Dominican-american" because it's clear: I'm Dominican - born in "US." It does not make me 50% Dominican and 50% american, lolll. But that "slash american" term applies more to the "African-american" community. The other races are usually just: Hispanic/Latino, Asian, Indian, etc... You rarely see the "slash."

But I've seen that a "half and half" approach is taken by many (not only Africans, but I know some people in my Latino community that do the same). I -in my opinion- think it's wrong... but, to each its own.

----"FIND YOUR OWN ROOTS... WATER YOUR OWN TREE"

All that "american" thing is just politics.... PAPERS. Anyone can come from any other country and fill a couple of papers, reply to certain questions, hold their hands up while repeating whatever is recited to them, and BAM! You're "american."

This is the territory where we live in... are ancestors and parents came here because of money issue, political problems,... a better future. If that future and opportunities were in, Iraq...  that's where most of us would be. It's just politics people. The U.S. could be - in the future - territory of Japan and all that "american" ish will be turned into Japanese. So, you see... It's your bloodline... keep your roots strong... VERY!

----"FIND YOUR OWN ROOTS... WATER YOUR OWN TREE"

I respect your ideas, however what I don't understand is why we can't be American.

Everyone originated from one region. Now, if the original people who migrated to Asia, Europe, etc, said "I'm not Asian because my roots are from blah blah blah" we would all still be of the same ethnicity.

So according to your logic, no one is American, except perhaps the Natives, and that basically we are just taking up space here.

I beg to differ because while we have distinct cultures within America, America does indeed have its own culture. My kids' roots are here. They were born here, I was born here, their grandparents were born here and their great grandparents and even great great grandparents. Is it wrong for me to not know the exact origin of my heritage, well kind of. But I would have to go back plenty of generations to get back to my mother country.

Yes, being American can just be political, but in my heart it goes deeper than that. It is in the way I talk, live, dress, eat, etc. That's who I am and I could be no other. Pretending I'm still in the mother country is foolish because I am not. Not to mention, which one would I pick? I am proud of my heritage that makes me up and that also makes me distinctly American.

Perhaps this is different for you because, and correct me if I am wrong, your Dominican roots are probably not far removed. But my family has been in America for quite some time.

And remember, when most Africans came to this country, their history was stripped away. And many European immigrants came with the shirt on their backs, never to see their families again. So for many of us, the history stops there and starts again anew as an American.

I totally respect the preservation of one's culture. But if you notice, most cultures have made their way into America in the form of food, dress, etc. If people like you didn't hold on to your culture, America would be somewhat bland.

Nihilus wrote:
For crying out loud...let's just replace everybody's "color" description with a hexcode number that matches their skintone.

Problem solved.

Yeah, but ccc166 is such an unflattering color... I'll stick to olive.

spyro2122 wrote:
race,weight,religion, sexual preference that doesnt matter.

Is this comment (in regards to weight) a little misleading coming from a model? Weight is definately an issue, a relevant one in regards to *where* the discussion is being held, and in my opinion much more relevant than the question of race.
If models want to miss out on potential jobs by selecting other, so be it.

Nikki S. wrote:
Sara and I had this discussion on the way to Toledo on Saturday.  I totally understand where she was coming from.  I myself told her, that I checked other because I do not just identify with black people nor white people.  My mother is German & french Canadian and my father is Afro American.  I check other, because there is no box for Biracial.

I agree totally with what Angel is saying and what Sara has already said, and I find those who attacked her personally to be ignorant of the message she was trying to convey in the original thread.

Much like my heritage, I like Neopolitan Ice Cream. The Underdogs still on top!

Nihilus wrote:
Okay...got one thing that's irking me.

[admitted rant]

What's with all this talk of "identifying with X"? (perhaps not so much in this thread, but at least a few times I noticed in the previous one) Really...get over the fact that your skintone does not inject you with a, via-color-bloodline, auto-empathy for all the ordeals that all the people of remotely the same shade as you have undergone. I don't care what color you are, you're just looking for a victim clause to use for whatever strange reasons you have when you have to "identify" with anything other than who you are (i.e. your personal ideologies, preferences, hopes, dreams...not that those cannot be, themselves, a twisted means of self-assurance...but I digress...).

You have the perfect right to use the obstacles and battles you have personally overcome in life to bolster your own sense of self.

The moment you have to sell yourself to a group identity, you desecrate your own personal indivduality. Try nurturing that first.

[/admitted rant]

okay  rant all you like. all members of any given ethnic group share common experiences on some level that are unique to their group. but thats not the point. if i am looking for a black  model with classical black features i do not look in "other" any more than i would try to find a caucasian in the "african american " search field.  if i want a mixed or undefinable look then i will search in "other" in the  threads that i posted i was in essence trying to say that the term" black"at least covers african african-american and west indian. and most of the looks that the average person would associate with those ethnic groups. if a nmodel looks like naomi campbell and her great great grandfather is choctaw i still wouldnt think to find her in "other".its about what you look like. its not about victimization although said victimization is a matter of historical record.

Angel Tara wrote:
"A while back I had that I was mixed with Cherokee in my profile, which I am, among other things.

Someone wrote me and asked why is it that anytime someone black claims they are mixed, it is with Cherokee Indian.

Now, I have NO idea and I told him as such and was personally offended by his question.

The Cherokees, Seminoles, and some other originally Eastern tribes generously accepted escaped slaves into their tribes, and hid them from the bounty hunters.  Many such escaped slaves intermarried with Native Americans.  As a result, many African Americans today have some Cherokee or other Native American biological heritage.  Often, there is just an oral tradition in families about this, no way to prove it or disprove it in particular families.

William Coleman wrote:
The Cherokees, Seminoles, and some other originally Eastern tribes generously accepted escaped slaves into their tribes, and hid them from the bounty hunters.  Many such escaped slaves intermarried with Native Americans.  As a result, many African Americans today have some Cherokee or other Native American biological heritage.  Often, there is just an oral tradition in families about this, no way to prove it or disprove it in particular families.

That is interesting to know.

I knew my grandmother, although she died when I was nine, and she was clearly Native. But how could I answer a question about what other people do? The question came across to me as "when you choose to lie about being part Native, why do you pick Cherokee?" HAHA, but oh well...

btw: the only reason I put it up there was because people kept asking. I don't have a problem being asked, but for a little while I thought it would be fine to just post it and let that be that.

Angel Tara wrote:

That is interesting to know.

I knew my grandmother, although she died when I was nine, and she was clearly Native. But how could I answer a question about what other people do? The question came across to me as "when you choose to lie about being part Native, why do you pick Cherokee?" HAHA, but oh well...

btw: the only reason I put it up there was because people kept asking. I don't have a problem being asked, but for a little while I thought it would be fine to just post it and let that be that.

On a related subject:  I went to Andrew Jackson High School.  Only years later did I learn that Andrew Jackson became a war hero, and ultimately president, in part because of his campaigns against the Seminoles, to punish them for harboring escaped slaves.  Some hero!  I would have been on the side of the slaves and the Seminoles.

William Coleman wrote:
On a related subject:  I went to Andrew Jackson High School.  Only years later did I learn that Andrew Jackson became a war hero, and ultimately president, in part because of his campaigns against the Seminoles, to punish them for harboring escaped slaves.  Some hero!  I would have been on the side of the slaves and the Seminoles.

There are so many things that aren't taught properly in schools, or things that are taught to children that shouldn't be. There are many things I look back on, and realized that I had been duped by an adult because I didn't have the information or ability to come to my own conclusion. Which causes me to pause now and wonder what I'm currently still in the dark about.

It's kind of a scary thought to know that there is so much that I don't know and never will.

I'm being weird again. ::Come back down to earth angel::

xJenellex wrote:
I know this post is old but I just have to put my two cents in = )

ethnicity and race are two different categories. therefore black and african american are not equivalent. African American, ethnicity wise is a sub-category that falls under Black, race wise.

ethnically I am Trinidadian/Syrian
race wise I am black. African american does not include me, anyone in the caribbean sea or south america.
Therefore I am "other" according to MM because it asks for one's ethnic background
I am no less black, nor am I ashamed of my blackness because I place "other". If MM would put an option for race, black would be what I choose. Since there will never be an ethnic box with an option "Trinidadian/Syrian" I will continue to put "other" over and over again as I am very proud of my ethnic ancestry. If I lose jobs because of that, then it wasnt meant to be.

...ahhh, whooo that is all

I think when this came up, many of us were not thinking outside the United States. So I don't think they were talking about you. I for one, never realized the lack of options for those models who are not American when joining this site. Then again, I joined months ago, clicked my box and went on with my biz. I don't even remember what the options are.