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Lose the attitude... humble pie tastes GREAT!
OK... I'd like to see a show of hands from all the photographers here on MM who have 100's of magazine covers to their credit... worked with hundreds of thousands of models, and make millions of dollars every year... what?... ZERO!... thought so (profit & loss statements will be a must). OK... I'd like to see a show of hands from all the models here who have reached 'supermodel' status, gracing the covers of those same few hundred magazines, with thousands of television showcases and fashion show performances to your credit... what?... ZERO AGAIN... amazing! (your mountain of tearsheets and videos clips will be a must). So riddle me this Batman... why is it that so many times, when the two parties above (both models & photographers) meet in a social environment (chatrooms, parties, forums, meetups, photoshoots, network functions, workshops, whatever) they have to throw out this 'my shit dont stink', hollier than thou' attitude, broadcasting to all in attendance that they are Gods gift to the photographic image? Well guess what!... sorry to burst your bubble, but I dont see ANY of you sportin halos over your heads, and the reason bathrooms need cleaned more than any other room in the house is because your shit DOES stink. How about trying this FIRST... the next time you're at a social function with large groups of the 2 parties listed above, try whipping your hand out for a friendly handshake and a warm hello greeting, instead of whipping out your 100 page 11x14 portfolio, attempting to impress everyone with (what you think is) your 'Mount Everest' of accomplishments. Instead of attempting to impress someone with who you know, what you know or all that you've done, try impressing them with your character. How about making some friends instead of trying to make some points, for as much as you think you've accomplished, there's always another guy or another girl, sitting at the next table, standing somewhere nearby, chatting with you or someone else in that same room who has probably accomplished more. I personally never lose track of the fact that I'm a sponge... sucking it all in... listening INSTEAD of talking, until I'm asked to do so, or find an appropriate time to interject some of my twisted (but not off color) humor...  In most cases, its usually the person who speaks first (other than saying hello) that loses. It's called humility and humbleness people... try those pants on... you may find them to be a perfect fit. I mean come on... you're here on MM to make friends and influence people... RIGHT?... then lose the fucked up attitude and let your WORK speak the volumes... NOT your mouth... for in most all instances, its your work that will win your case, while your mouth could easily lose it for you... Feb 08 06 09:15 am Link Preach!!!! Everything you said is 1000% correct! Many of us get to a point in where we think we've "arrived". That's ridiculous! I know I'm not the hottest thing out there by far and there is no need for me to act like it.....We really need to support and encourage each other... Feb 08 06 09:25 am Link dwtenor wrote: Cool... thanks... I was shootin for 100%... but 1000% will do. And about 'supporting and encouraging' each other... word up on that... Feb 08 06 10:35 am Link YAY! Glad to see a photographer type this! LoL I know I've said something in regards to this before. Not too many people at this site seem to be of any help, seeing as how everything is negative. Humility is a hard pill to swallow for some... You have my support! I totally agree with everything you have said. Feb 08 06 10:38 am Link hmmm.. someone's pissy..... I think in my bio on my website I say something to the effect; I let my work speak in forums where my voice cannot be heard. Many of us here have pretty good work and "the work" speaks for itself, others have shitty work, and that speaks too, although a different language, it still speaks. I can tell you that I'm feeling myself sometimes, other times; I hate everything that I look at that came from me. I'm very confident in my work, both on and off the camera - so muthaf*ck'n what! My covers, portfolios, tears, and accollades can all be brought to the table if you like, but who does that impress? No one, because damn near zero times has someone contacted me and asked if I had any of them. The work speaks for itself and it fits in places that are designed around its style. I kinda wish you would have labeled this a RANT because that's what it is.... We all get pissed off, but you know what they say; "It's better to be pissed off, than to be pissed on" HOWARD NATION Feb 08 06 10:44 am Link EMG STUDIOS wrote: Excellent Reply, 1000% Feb 08 06 10:50 am Link EMG STUDIOS wrote: Hmmmmm... well... it wasnt really designed to be a RANT... just an observation from events that I've witnessed taking place in the shoutbox, in a few forums, and at gatherings where M's & P's meet... Feb 08 06 10:50 am Link I love how you dress us down then in the very same post tell us how much your shit doesn't stink. Man what a perfect example of what you speak. LOL  Now I am just teasing calm down Feb 08 06 10:56 am Link Nikki S. wrote: Everything is negative?!?!?!... hmmmmm... I dont see alot of that... maybe you've just been hangin in the wrong crowd here. There are ALOT of helpful and good natured people on this site. As you scroll thru the forums, you WILL spot some... Feb 08 06 12:12 pm Link Pretty interesting thread or rant, whatever the label. I have found both sides to the coin. Some people are stuck up, and they choose to show it by acting in a shitty way, I think that is a given, this industry will perpetuate that. On the other hand this site has shown and offered some cool folks with intelligence and appreciation for the arts. I do agree this was more of a rant, but getting this word out won't hurt. Everyone at this point should have the big boy pants on and let the little shit go. If someone gives the wholier than though treatment, it's the real world tell em to stick where the sun don't shine or wait your opportunity and with a little karma maybe you get to offer them a little humble pie. Feb 08 06 12:21 pm Link Select Models wrote: ok so i'm sure here lately as a result of one of my forums posting, that everyone could look at me responding to this as "that girl should take her own advice..." Feb 08 06 12:28 pm Link Gary: I never thought I would hear the word "Humble" come from your mouth, but ... I wish you would have reduced your rant to 100 words or less, but ... some of it was tough to follow because you rambled a bit, but ... I am still shocked to hear you use the word "humble," but ... I find that I do agree with quite a bit of what you said. But gosh it was hard to follow. Feb 08 06 12:45 pm Link I admit that sometimes I get the holy attitude. However, I prefer to be nice if I can help it. When I went to a gathering with models and photographers, I was usually the one standing in the corner until someone came up to introduce themself. I am completely different off the camera than I am on. I'm actually pretty shy, but I will greet you with a friendly hello and a nice handshake. I can't say a warm handshake, though...because my hands are usually cold! I do hate how cold and arrogant some people can be, just because they have gotten paid shoots, or are signed with a big agency, or so on and so on. It still doesn't make them any better, just means they have a little more money than me. I am nice to those who are nice to me. If someone acts like they are better than me or thinks they are God's gift to the earth, then I either ignore them, or plainly show them the door and my little size 7 pointed toe boot. Feb 08 06 12:50 pm Link Since when is showing your portfolio "attitude"? Seems to me the most straight forward and honest way to show people you're intersted in working with what you're capable of. And that's one of the main points of meet and greets and places like MM isn't it? Maybe I just haven't witnessed what you're talking about but I don't quite get it. What bothers me more is people who are all talk. Feb 08 06 12:55 pm Link Gary Davis wrote: No arguement there Gar. It's the matter and method of 'introduction' that I was referring too. The 'handshake/portfolio'' senario was used to explore the 2 differences in greetings... Feb 08 06 01:11 pm Link Select Models wrote: Wondering in what circles you "circulate" where this is common... Feb 08 06 01:24 pm Link Gary: I will have to agree to about 98% of your "rant" Having an attitude like many people in the model & photo field is just a way of reinforcing their own egos. Its a trait. When it becomes overbearing or rude then it becomes inexcusable. I know from personal experience that if a model does not fit "a look" I want ...it is no great shakes to politely say " I am sorry, but I have already filled the slot"...it doesn't take much effort to say" no" in a polite way without offending or being abrupt. Sure, its nice to get paid for any work done. But the TFP concept does not seem to be understood by some models. If a client is paying for pics then of course a model must be paid. But if a photographer has to dig the funds out of his own pocket to pay a model.....he usually has to be flushed with money/rich/ or desperate. If he has any skills or abilities THAT creativity may be worth "more" than money exchanged if the model shares in the results. Most of us appreciate being treated with courtesy and professionalism and KUDOS are welcomed as much as well intoned criticisms. I have only been on MM about 4 months, but I notice there are a few amongst us here who are always willing togive a fellow MM member a helping hand....and thats what it is all about. Life is too short for morbid hangups, selfishness & extreme anti social attitudes. And I regard the element of friendliness in a business relationship as a precious and desirable adjunct..I dont like to work with people who have an attitude. In fact I wont.... It doesnt add to the creative process. Feb 08 06 01:38 pm Link EMG STUDIOS wrote: Especially if you're at R. Kelly's house. Feb 08 06 01:39 pm Link UdoR wrote: Diametrically opposed experiences?!?!?!?!?... hmmmmm! Well... I never said that their existance WAS the rule, rather than the exception. The fact that you acknowledged their existance indicates to me that maybe we're not so 'diametrically opposed' afterall... Feb 08 06 01:40 pm Link mphot wrote: Word up on this... thanks for the addition and input... Feb 08 06 01:44 pm Link I completely agree. I'm not immune to the attitude, either. I often sit back and look at the work of other photographers to keep myself in check. There are a lot of really good, talented photographers out there. That said, I'm proud of my work, and know where the improvements have to be made. Half the joy of this work is improving yourself, coming up with great pictures that you never realized you could do, and outright learning. Attitudes never did anything but hold you back from advancing your craft, because you delude yourself into not trying anymore by default. Feb 08 06 01:50 pm Link carlyerin wrote: it's one thing for a person (photog or model) to be rude or have an attitude...there's NEVER an exuse of it, modeling world, real world, or anywhere else you might spend your time...but i think a lot of models have this whole thing backwards. i kno there are TONS of posts on this, but we as models ought to remember that photog's don't pay us, the clients do (and in that vien, pay the photog too)...unless we fit a special project they have, or they're just oozing with $$ and are generous...models pay photog's for portfolio development...so if someone bills themselves as a professional, and says they don't do tfp then you have to accept that. if you can't afford them, find someone you can afford or who does do tfp. in a GREAT place like MM, there are plenty. just had to add that in...and now back to your regularly scheduled thread... Feb 08 06 02:03 pm Link Select Models wrote: Amen my brutha. Amen! On the note of humility, well, I have a pantry full of humble pie, home made and tastes better than any of yours. Hmpf. ha ha. Feb 08 06 02:06 pm Link wow, impressive sir, and first thing in the morning i can attest, them thar bodily empties shar do stinkie up the place, but seriously gary well said, i keep my head on by shooting regularly with a couple of associates, one who makes my aviation work look like crap, and another who reminds me how to take glamour photos that look great all of the time not just some of the time. Feb 08 06 02:11 pm Link I started hosting a photographer and model meet and greet 8 months ago which now is open to photographers, models, makeup artist, stylist, designers and agents/agencies. We welcome anyone regardless of experience or stature to come and network. Itâs a wonderful place to come and meet with old friends and contacts as well as make new ones. One of the members made a sign which was displayed at one of the meetings which read âLeave your ego at the door; you can pick it up when you leaveâ?. Iâve since removed that sign as it draws unwanted attention to the obvious. Can I get a group hug? Feb 08 06 02:13 pm Link Craig Thomson wrote: Here's Gary tossin a handshake towards the Craigmeister... but about that hugging stuff... well... Im not from 'that part' of California... LOL! Keep up the great job on the MM meetings. We're going to be hosting one on the end of March... details coming soon... Feb 08 06 02:24 pm Link It is really nice to hear a photographer that feels the way you do. Some photographers seem to think when a model is nice and humble that she is insecure or something but I would think that particular model would just be fun to work with and be open to different creative ideas. . .anyway thanks for writing that. . .just my two cents though. . . -Jessica Feb 08 06 02:29 pm Link no matter what level we're at, we should support and encourage... because there's always a next level we all can achieve until we exit 6 feet under or our ashes are blowing in the wind... Feb 08 06 02:32 pm Link Savannah Skye wrote: For sure... kinda reminds me of that song 'Living Years' by Mike and the Mechanics... "It's to late... when we die... to admit we don't see eye to eye"... Feb 08 06 04:27 pm Link Select Models wrote: Thank you for the introduction Gary, it's more then welcome. Being new to photography as well as a hobby shooter, it's fun to meet all the new people on all sides of the camera and try to learn what does what. Feb 08 06 04:43 pm Link Doug Mackay DMP wrote: Awwwww... thanks Dougmeister... bodily empties... LOL... you guys 'down under' sure put an interesting twist on the English language... amusing no doubt... Feb 08 06 07:17 pm Link I think that it is an insecurity issue. I was at a shoot recently where the model was a complete bi%ch. She was attractive, not gorgeous, but pretty enough. I could tell she was being a bitCH7 because she was insecure. Her body language portrayed this. Also, it did not help that I am close with the photographer and the hair person. I truly tried to coax her out of her mood, because I am the last person she encounters before she hits the set. So I stroke the ego this way. I stroke the ego that way. At least she loosened up a bit. But she was still a bit$h. I have found the same thing with photographers and other makeup artists. I try to be real with myself. I laugh at myself. I kick myself when my works stinks. It's the whole sniffing each other out thing. Is my work better? Does she think my work stinks? Do I stink? Just my observation. Feb 08 06 07:28 pm Link Select Models wrote: Ah, I will be your friend, you sound like you need a big hug. Feb 08 06 07:38 pm Link Horsie Girl wrote: Awwwwwww... thanks HG... I wasnt actually soliciting... BUT... hugs surrrrrrre feel good... AND... I noticed you're in CA... hmmmmmm... so am I... so ah... hop on your pony and come on down... or better yet... hop in that VIPER (on your photo page) and I'll seeya in a few hours... LOL... Feb 08 06 07:49 pm Link it seems like you needed that venting session my friend. ....gives a big hug..... feel better? You know I have to say I am not one to say my pictures are better than so and so's cause In my opinion my photos are never good enough, and I know I am not of super model status. Feb 08 06 07:55 pm Link Funny you mentioned this..and kudos to you for it! I try to keep my ego in check, almost to a fault. Partially because I feel that no matter what I have accomplished, there is MUCH more out there. I Do not offer the information of what I do. If someone asks, I will hesitantly tell them. My sister just came to visit and asked how my career was going. I hummed, and hawed. When she left my hubby asked why I was so brief about it. I don't know. It is just not something I am anxious to talk about. My thing is this...you really don't know what the other person in the conversation has accomplished. While you are so busy tooting your own horn, you could in fact be putting your foot in your mouth and also be ruining a working relationship. I am confident on the inside about where I am going, I just don't have a need to prematurely broadcast it to the world. ' Feb 08 06 08:01 pm Link I like what U wrote. And I especially loveee the fact that U kept it real! Which is something most forget to do! U do have a point but dont drive yourself nuts over it, remember that one of the downsides to modeling/photography is that it tends to get a little "superficial" at times. I agree with you though. ThUmBs up 2 U! It's good to see people with useful brains here! Feb 08 06 08:03 pm Link Select Models wrote: LOL funny post, I agree with you on most of your points also. It's so interested how going from a model to an amateur photographer helps you see both sides. I think it boils down to there are very egotistical PEOPLE waking this earth. People who think their photography is just so hot, when it honestly looks as if they've never seen a fashion magazine in their lives. Or models that can't show more than ONE facial expression or have to have YOU actually sit up and direct them on how to pose while you shoot with them. But insist they are the best at "what they do" LOL uh huh, riiiight. Truth is, not everyone with a size C cup and above, or a flat stomach and beautiful face can model to perfection or even GOOD. Just the same as not every person with a DIGITAL camera and miniscule skills in photoshop can call themselves a spectacular photographer. I do think people should realllly stay humble, it's almost like some photographers don't look at other people's work and compare their own (QUALITY wise and creatively) Or models don't look at the poses, style and grace of professional models and learn to step their skill up some notches. I laugh it all off, and continue to learn. Feb 08 06 08:06 pm Link *starts singing*"Why can't we be friends... why cant we be friends..." I love hugs too. Feb 08 06 08:17 pm Link Shan L Photography wrote: Word up on this Shan L... great observation... Feb 08 06 09:07 pm Link |
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