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Ever worry about model/photographer stealing your shot idea?
So I had a shoot set up with a model - TFP. We'd been talking for about a month via MM mail. I had scoured around for a location and found a perfect one, and she picked a night to do the shoot. Day of shoot, she doesn't reply to mail or phone messages and completely blows me off. Since I haven't heard from her and the shot was supposed to be last night, not sure what he reason is/was for flaking out, but she *did* at least read my last MM mail message. Pending this model's reason for blowing me off (if I ever find out), I may try to figure out a way to let others know about her. Now I have this paranoia that she might take the shot idea we discussed (my idea) and do it herself. I doubt she'd actually do it, but has this ever happened to someone? Person flakes out on you then does your shot idea with someone else? Jul 14 05 11:39 am Link Without knowing what your idea was there is a good chance it might have been done before. I come up with what I think of as original ideas all the time only to find another photographer has done something incredibly similiar if not exactly the same. I would just keep an eye on her portfolio and if you see photos pop up that are exactly what you planned to do then by all means call her out on it. You have a nice handy dandy forum to let everyone here know exactly what she did. Even if your idea gets done with anothe photog it doesn't mean you still can't do it. Different model...different poses...different shoot. Jul 14 05 12:01 pm Link Posted by Sleepy Weasel: That thing sort of happened to me, but NOT from anyone here on MM. I had been contacted by model said she liked by work blah blah blah, like to work together. Sure, I say, wanting to work with a model with a slightly different look. She has some ideas for her shot, they sound vaguely interesting to me but the staging/composition I don't like. I suggest some changes. Since I was busy with other projects we set a general time slot to work. Despite some emails time comes and goes, no loss. A few months later I'm going through old contacts, tossing stuff, updating and low and behold if the model doesn't have the shots in her port, shot by her model manager, with the composition/staging and additional props that I had suggested. Was I pissed? Not really. It wasn't my kernal idea, I just basically improved the concept and she ran with it. Ultimately she had forgotten some key points I had made, so the lighting was different, and so was the look since the model manager photographer tried adding everything post production in photoshop and did a poor job of it as well. Jul 14 05 12:08 pm Link It's like the original sin.....it's been done before. Creativity is fresh will stand on it's own. For most part it's not the taking but the creativity of exploring your own voice. Tons of ways for images to come to being.....so many magazines & TV media out there...so who said doing it your way isn't original. It' knowing the knowledge that you took it is all that matters. Jul 14 05 12:09 pm Link Posted by Christopher Wright Oh, I imagine it's likely. But I'm also sure most photogs here don't go through others' portfolios to snag ideas. I absolutely don't want to copy (or even come close) to something I've seen someone else do before, and I imagine most others here are the same way. Posted by KM von Seidl: Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, right? But that's a different situation (copying something *after* the fact, not before you get around to doing it yourself). Jul 14 05 12:25 pm Link Posted by Sleepy Weasel: Posted by Christopher Wright Oh, I imagine it's likely. But I'm also sure most photogs here don't go through others' portfolios to snag ideas. I absolutely don't want to copy (or even come close) to something I've seen someone else do before, and I imagine most others here are the same way. Posted by KM von Seidl: Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, right? But that's a different situation (copying something *after* the fact, not before you get around to doing it yourself). Still this is not new in this industry..trust me..wait until you get the art direct on a shoot asking you to shoot like this photographer, as they hold a image from that photographer....I usually say to then why didn't you just hire him instead.......their answer..they were out of town.....rwality their fees where to high for their taste...so you are second pick Jul 14 05 12:29 pm Link If I were getting paid to shoot, it might not bother me as much. ;-) When I'm doing this for my own personal collection, the creativity of the shot is all I have. Jul 14 05 12:34 pm Link I feel your pain. I am much better on the idea and image area than the business area and getting my shots seen. Try to find a balance but it is similar to the worries of the copyright infringement topic. The main thing that will hold you back is fear. You cannot not copyright or protect an idea. Paranoid Boy feels your pain. Jul 14 05 01:01 pm Link I don't STEAL ideas - I LIBERATE ideas. I see a lot of photographrs have like almost good ideas, they just need GWC's skill to pull them off right. Some ideas are just too good to be left in the hands of lesser photographers! GWC Jul 14 05 01:11 pm Link I had an out-of-state photog that I was shooting with earlier this week take a list of places that I suggested to shoot at and use one with another model that he was shooting with. It didn't really upset me since a) I was getting paid, b) the other model is someone I'm well aquainted with enough to consider a friend, & c) I still got to shoot there anyways (and plan on shooting there again soon). Sometimes it's just the situation that makes things more or less aggravating. I know if I'd come up with a really complex shoot idea (and I really could with some of my costumes) only to have the photographer shoot it with someone else, I'd be pissed. Jul 14 05 01:38 pm Link I guess i'm not "professional" enough to be commenting on this but from some of the other comments i've seen on other posts... hopefully, my opinion counts.... even a little. I have a million ideas for shoots. There is no way I could possibly shoot them all or have the time to even sketch them out. I did a sketch (which my avatar). Not a finished work (duh!!!) but an idea. If there is someone that wants to photograph such an image, I'd love to see it. This wouldn't stop me from doing my own interpretation of the same thing. Is this not professional? Jul 14 05 01:52 pm Link I'm too busy collecting ideas from other photographers' ideas to worry about my own being swiped. Don't worry though: When I take an idea from any of you, I promise to put so many layers of my own stuff on top that you'll never realize you've been swiped from. Jul 14 05 01:58 pm Link Posted by GWC: *suppressed laugh* Jul 14 05 01:59 pm Link I thought everyone looked at and admired other peoples work and tried to "copy" what they felt they liked. Is this not true? What happened to imitation being a sincere form of flattery? Jul 14 05 02:02 pm Link Posted by GWC: You can try to liberate all you want, GWC, but your off-brand disposeable and that half-dead flashlight from the glove box you call a portable strobe unit aren't going to cut it in the end. Jul 14 05 02:44 pm Link Posted by Melvin Moten Jr: Posted by GWC: *suppressed laugh* Even I, Paranoid Boy must admit there is a certain logic to it and to your response as well. Jul 14 05 03:04 pm Link Why be paranoid? Me be thinking like this. IF you are that good it won't matter WHO "steals" your model, ideal, location etc. It is YOUR vision and IF you are that good your image is what will get the applause and the $$ not to mention the theives wil be identified as the ideal jackers they really are Jul 14 05 03:14 pm Link I don't worry about it because they do it all the time. Jul 14 05 03:23 pm Link What, me worry? People steal my ideas. I steal theirs. Nothign new under the sun. The execution is always different anyway. Jul 14 05 04:03 pm Link If the shot is important to you, that particular shot i mean. Maybe that certain pose or look on the models face, even her hair style and makeup is what you want. Give the model an idea of what you want to do but dont go into details about what you want exactly for the shot. There are details you can give her so she is prepared for the shot without going into detail too much. What would be funny is if you get all this prepared and you got the model there and just about to take the shot and some kid comes by with a disposible and takes the shot before you do. LOL What would be worse is if you see the shot in the paper with an article "Photographer makes use of....) with a shot of your model. lol Well the point is that you can take that shot 50 times until you get it to the point you think its perfect and then flip thru a photography book and see a shot just like it. You can duplicate a shot but you cant DUPLICATE a shot. Someone may like yours for whatever reason and not like the other for another reason even though they are the "Same" shot. If the shot makes you gaga then go for it dont worry about if someone will steal it, they will not make it as good a shot as you will. Dont be the person in 6 months who says "I wish i had gotten that shot". This is what photography is all about, get the shot. Jul 14 05 04:21 pm Link Posted by Sleepy Weasel: Interesting... I admit I keep a stock pile of ideas and I do hoard them. It's more difficult for me to find another photographer (style, etc.) The exception to this is when I feel it would be very difficult to duplicate exactly what I have in mind (and as Peter said, any duplication would be different). For example, I'm naturally flexible, even some contortion, and I'd like to do a high fashion contortion shoot Stella McCartney like. Do I worry that someone reading this is going to beat me to the punch? Not really - They won't have me. Jul 14 05 06:24 pm Link I think people just read the title of the thread and not the particular circumstance I discussed.  The question is if you collaborated with a photographer/model about a sepcific shoot, has that person ever dumped you and gone on to do that shot using someone else? My particular shot was described in fair detail (where everything would be laid out, what the model would be wearing, her position in the shot, and the location we were to meet at). Turns out my model had a family issue come up and that's why she bagged on me, but I didn't know about it until the next day. Jul 16 05 08:57 am Link Posted by Sleepy Weasel: I think we did. What did you expect us to say or discuss? Jul 16 05 09:01 am Link Sleepy maybe that is a little paranoid in thinking, if you expected a different answer? If that had happened, could you stop it? If it did/does happen, how could you prevent it from happening again? Sara the: "I'm naturally flexible, even some contortion" is a shoot i am interested in doing at some point. Too bad your so far away, that is a long time fav shoot i want to do. Jul 16 05 09:08 am Link I don't worry about it. Given the number of photographs that have been taken in the past 125 years, I'm sure the photographic community has plumb run out of "original" ideas. Jul 16 05 09:46 am Link if it is only an idea, there is nothing to steal. ideas are not protected under copy rights; not even if they are expressed. there is nothing new. as others have commented everything you have in your port has been done by someone before you. did you steal the idea? probably not, but there are only so many things that can be done. the expression, the inserting of your voice into a piece is what makes it your own. everything on my port has been done before, and will be done afterwards.. you can be creative, but thinking originality comes from a whole new idea or concept.. well you're just deluding yourself then. as far as not going through other ports, I think that is a mistake. you could really help your photography by looking through other photographers work and seeing what works and why. it's okay to glean ideas, it's okay to try and mimic; just breathe yourself into the work and you'll be fine. as far as the frustration of working with a model for a month and hammering out an idea I can understand the frustration of his/her flaking. it seems like a betrayl of sorts. but hang in there I am sure that if she does try to pull off your idea it won't even be in the ball park of what you were looking to capture. Jul 16 05 10:00 am Link Yes, I guess I'm a little paranoid about the idea of a model stealing a specific idea of a shoot we were going to do and flaking on me to shoot it with another photographer. Yes, I realize most ideas have probably been done in one fashion or another. I'm not so much 'complaining' about it happening as wondering if this scenario has happened to others and what to do about it if it did. There are not a ton of models in Colorado right now. If a model turned out a shot at the same location I did, then I do the scene there (after she steals the idea, as an example), it looks a little weird. Granted, this hasn't happened to me (yet)...it's more of a what if scenario. Jul 16 05 02:53 pm Link Posted by Sleepy Weasel: Bummer she flaked on you. I don't know about you, but if the ideas come flying off the griddle like pancakes in a flapjack cooking convention, then don't sweat the small stuff. Keep working the kitchen upstairs. Jul 16 05 03:01 pm Link If this is a concern what i woul do is spend more time thinking up stuff nobody would for a shoot. Different clothing or different environment can make a great photo if done right. You want an original idea to try and not steal it? Get some BRIGHT lights and wait until a thunderstorm and down pour. Get yourself an inverter to run out of your vehicle that will run the lights (outdoor lights). Go to a park or stream and have the model wear something sexy (bright colored if she is tan) like a thong and half shirt (white shirt). Put a good scene behind her and set up the lights and turn them on. Do the shoot out of your vehicle so you dont ruin your equipment. The model will pop out of that photo trust me and if yo ulook around nobody has a photo liek that on here or many other places. You just got yourself an "Original" photo. I am working on that idea but different background, i just need a model that will do it. Jul 16 05 03:05 pm Link You've obviously got too much time on your hands. ;-) Besides, I don't see anything in your port that someone else couldn't come up with. Personally, I've probably stolen more ideas from other photographers than have been stolen from me. Paul Jul 16 05 03:58 pm Link try some prozac ... Jul 16 05 06:11 pm Link I'm sure there are all kinds of photographers and models who had tryed OTHER peoples ideas. It's no big deal! I see a photo I like with the theme & pose you know imma try it with another photographer. Jul 16 05 08:41 pm Link Every idea has been used somewhere down the line, but not everyone can do it right. Jul 16 05 09:53 pm Link Posted by Louis Braga: What the hell am I going to do with a picture of Prozac? Jul 17 05 12:40 am Link Posted by Paul Ferrara: Not sure what that's supposed to mean...the shot I have in mind is something very different from what I've been doing...kind of a "leap" for me in an artistic sense. Jul 17 05 12:45 am Link Posted by Sleepy Weasel: Posted by Louis Braga: What the hell am I going to do with a picture of Prozac? Uuuu. Now, THAT'S an idea! he he he Jul 17 05 12:47 am Link Posted by Sleepy Weasel: Posted by Paul Ferrara: Not sure what that's supposed to mean...the shot I have in mind is something very different from what I've been doing...kind of a "leap" for me in an artistic sense. I see no reason for the model to know this much data about the shoot, she just stands where you tell her and pose the way you want. Jul 17 05 10:59 am Link "Ever worry about model/photographer stealing your shot idea?" YES quite a bit. Well, not quite. But it happened. I recently had a group shoot where one of the models had a very pushy, very over-confident mother. Of course, I had taken a look at the girls folio's before showing up. At the shoot I used a particular pose that was fairly different, and within a week or two I saw new shoot pics up in which she used the pose. Granted I know it would be fairly improbable to pick a pose absolutely no one had ever used before, but funny that she used it after I had. I know, I'm paranoid. But if her mother hadn't been so goddamn conceited.... Jul 17 05 11:06 am Link yes and no. While I don't like the idea of someone else using my idea I still know each person might have a different interpretation of it. Jul 17 05 11:09 am Link Posted by Sleepy Weasel: Yes. I was lining up a shoot with someone and I told her my concept for our shoot.We only had to come up with a date that will work for both of us. A week goes by. She shoots with someone else in the meantime and voila! her new pics come out, the theme I discussed with her was what she shot with another photographer. Jul 17 05 11:25 am Link |
