Beal Photography wrote:
I am looking for any advice, pointers, right directions to go for contacts.  This forum has been good to a lot of decent photographers, so I thought I would give it a try for some good sound advice.

You might try the critique forum, as I think many posting here will  be forced to give less than specific advice in order to not give unsolicited advice.

S de Varax wrote:
what's your market? are you intending to sell prints? stock?

We are trying to get into the selling prints rather than stock.

Jim and Kim

Beal Photography wrote:

We are trying to get into the selling prints rather than stock.

Jim and Kim

So...selling the prints to the models?

Selling art nude prints at galleries, or online or...?

Beal Photography wrote:
We are trying to get into the selling prints rather than stock.

Jim and Kim

I would suggest you do some research and find out what kinds of prints sell well, and what prints don't sell well. Many people would rather hang a print of a landscape, a sunset on the beach, or a macro shot of a flower, than a headshot of a stranger.

slave to the lens wrote:

So...selling the prints to the models?

Selling art nude prints at galleries, or online or...?

We are going to try for print work with agencies.

Jim and Kim

Beal Photography wrote:
We are going to try for print work with agencies.

Jim and Kim

You need to put that in the first posting so we understand better.
But, I still don't know what you're getting at.

Beal Photography wrote:

We are going to try for print work with agencies.

Jim and Kim

I'm sorry that I'm just not getting it... do you mean

"printing model's portfolios for their agencies"

or


"shooting print work for publication"

as an agency repped photographer?

I'm assuming it's "A".

Beal Photography wrote:
Sinecerly apoliges to all, I am from Maine.  We talk funny sometimes.  Anyways, we want to attempt to get work from the agencies.  For example to photo shoot  a catolog or calendar or what ever the assignement.  And, again my apoliges for not being very clear at first.

Jim and Kim

Jim, I'm going to again suggest starting a critique thread. I think it might be more valuable than this one. I will say this:

Look at catalogs and calendars and ask yourself if your work is on par with what is out there. It's a fierce business.

Beal Photography wrote:
Sinecerly apoliges to all, I am from Maine.  We talk funny sometimes.  Anyways, we want to attempt to get work from the agencies.  For example to photo shoot  a catolog or calendar or what ever the assignement.  And, again my apoliges for not being very clear at first.

Jim and Kim

Ayuh, we shoah do.

/threadjack

Beal Photography wrote:
Sinecerly apoliges to all, I am from Maine.  We talk funny sometimes.  Anyways, we want to attempt to get work from the agencies.  For example to photo shoot  a catolog or calendar or what ever the assignement.  And, again my apoliges for not being very clear at first.

Jim and Kim

That's not really how it works - agencies don't hire photographers for catalog assignments. I would suggest you spend a bit of time doing some research, and get familiar with how the industry works first.

Mark Tate wrote:
I am not to sure just how you mean sell your photos .

I am a fine art printer and I make a living from selling my work .

selling prints is not easy and taking great photos is only half the battle

On your port right now there are no photos of sale qualty and I have found that the only people photos that realy sell are B&W fine art nudes and even then it realy has to be special as the market is just flooded with them

even in my port I dont have sale qualty photos

The type of print makes all the diference .forget about trying to sell any thing from an inkjet printer as the prints just do not last and I dont care what Epson say about ther inks the best they last for me is six months .

I still use a dark room and hand print B&W as well as colour

The best sales I have are local landscapes or landmarks , animals or pets , I do some still life and aim it at resturant or office decoration  etc

photos of naked sexy ladys realy dont sell ,,there is nothing uniqe about them .

The size of the prints also makes a diference and you need to be able to print at least to 50 x 60 cm and still have quality , this is why I still have not gone to digital and use medium and large format film .

I do some prints up to 150 cm tall ..

Hope this helps

Thanks Mark, your post is very helpful.  I know it is a very fierce world.  Everything in our post right now was practicing for techique.

dave wright sf wrote:

That's not really how it works - agencies don't hire photographers for catalog assignments. I would suggest you spend a bit of time doing some research, and get familiar with how the industry works first.

Thanks  for the input.  I am doing research but found a little of spinning of my wheel, that why I came here.  Just trying to do a little less spinnning.

Mark Tate wrote:
...I have found that the only people photos that realy sell are B&W fine art nudes and even then it realy has to be special as the market is just flooded with them

....

photos of naked sexy ladys realy dont sell ,,there is nothing uniqe about them .

Well, which is it?

c_d_s wrote:
Translation: "I want to sell prints of models that I have photographed to agencies for use in catalogs and calendars, so that both the models and I can make money."

BINGO!!!!  First part is what i said, and you nailed the second part of my post.  Thank you, are you from Maine?  Just Kidding.

Mark Tate wrote:
The type of print makes all the diference .forget about trying to sell any thing from an inkjet printer as the prints just do not last and I dont care what Epson say about ther inks the best they last for me is six months .

I still use a dark room and hand print B&W as well as colour

Hope this helps

Sorry mark, but you are 100% WRONG.  My Epson Prints (Both color and B & W) will outlast anything that can be done using the "Wet Process" I.E. in the darkroom.
Years ago Ciba's and Dye Transfer color prints were the longest lasting, but the materials for Dye Transfer's is not made any longer.  I have prints made on a modern Epson using 100% rag 300gsm fine art paper that were sold by me, then resold by the buyer and while I only have 10 years of experience with digital (inkjet) prints, I do have prints that were hung in the sun along with standard
Kodak and FUJI C prints and the digital prints are holding up much better.  On
traditional B & W wet process using fiber based paper (I do have over 30 years
of making B & W fiber prints) the main issue is the process.  Again I could see my Epson inkjet prints on 100% rag paper lasting as long as or longer than the traditional prints.

I get angry when people make "Wrong" statements as you have.

As far as advice to the OP, All I can say is that you need to have images to print that there is a market for.  Then you need to have a reputation that makes the prints worth buying.  It is not easy.  Over the years I've sold hundreds of signed prints.  I will also tell the OP that there is little market for "Glamour" images in
Stock photography.  The requirements for submitting to the moneymaking agencies or libraries can be high.

There are way too many who think that anyone can make money in photography, in reality it is a difficult business.

Chuck

c_d_s wrote:
Translation: "I want to sell prints of models that I have photographed to agencies for use in catalogs and calendars, so that both the models and I can make money."

Beal Photography wrote:
BINGO!!!!  First part is what i said, and you nailed the second part of my post.  Thank you, are you from Maine?  Just Kidding.

THIS IS NOT THE WAY THINGS WORK IN THE REAL WORLD
For the Record , the Printer/Prints are the least of the OP's concern at this point in time. Being worried out that is like Trying to Run before even mastering Crawling much-less walking up straight.

ESCALANTE wrote:
I had written This on another similer thread , This should Answer your's as well ..



If this is what you consider a form of making money as a photographer then I suggest you Keep this at a hobby level then.

I find it is so strange that so Many people think that a career can be started on a website that is considered a version of My space / friendster .

I recommend you take a long look at what you are shooting, and learn what being a real Professional Photographer entails.
It is no less then the wanna~be web-models thinking that a few pictures posted on here makes them an Instant Supermodel.

As I have written on so MANY other threads such as this, Go learn what this industry requires and what type of Business you want to run using your Camera.

If this is your " Current Profession" then why are you starting something with out knowing what to do ?
Would you open up a restaurant with out knowing the first thing about cooking or much-less how to run a business ?

Well guess what , You are doing JUST THAT.

Get off the Computer and go learn what the REAL world does & doesn't do .
I have been a Professional Photographer since way before the advent of the World Wide Web .

Answer WHY should I even consider paying you for ANYTHING?

Just because you own a camera ? Because you Spent money on Lighting equipment ? Just because you have a computer with Image Editing Software?
WHAT MAKES YOUR WORK WORTHY OF BEING PURCHASED?

Where have you been Published ?

Who are your Corporate Clients ? Who are the Business that have had enough faith in your talents as a Photographer to PAY you ?

I mean real Businesses? Not Wannabe MM web models who are just as clueless.
Above and Beyond those questions
WHAT Licenced and Bonded  AGENCY ARE YOU CURRENTLY Testing for ? What Licenced and Bonded REALY WORLD MODELING Agency is PAYING you for Your services ?

How can you Expect to be Paid for "helping to develop a Model's Portfolio" If you have NEVER shot or much-less walked in to a Agency Office to Justify BEING PAID ? [b][i]

Joe Scrogham wrote:
Nice speech, do you have any USEFUL advice for him or is badgering him the best your going to do?

How about re-reading what was written .

ESCALANTE wrote:
I had written This on another similar thread , This should Answer yours as well ..

I gave alot of great advice , try a little harder , it is in there.


Disclaimer (for the whiners > not saying the OP is a Whiner either becase he is not , he posted a legit question. )
to the OP , I had written This on another similar thread , This should Answer yours as well .. It should shed some light on issue are you are not taking in to consideration.
Not meant as any type of Offense to you at all .
Best of Luck to you Jim


E
p.s.

On your Photoshop Point on Less Is Best.
WRONG

YOu are not grasping that CONCEPT.
You are suppose to EDIT IMages SO they LOOK AS IF THEY HAVE NOT BEEN EDITED.
SOft FOCUS translates in to BLURRY UNEDITED IMAGES.

One of the Many points you are going to begin educating yourself on.

Regardless of Markets , Quality is  Quality regardless of Location.

ESCALANTE wrote:

Joe Scrogham wrote:
Nice speech, do you have any USEFUL advice for him or is badgering him the best your going to do?

How about re-reading what was written .




I gave alot of great advice , try a little harder , it is in there.


Disclaimer (for the whiners > not saying the OP is a Whiner either becase he is not , he posted a legit question. )
to the OP , I had written This on another similar thread , This should Answer yours as well .. It should shed some light on issue are you are not taking in to consideration.
Not meant as any type of Offense to you at all .
Best of Luck to you Jim


E

My apologies, Your post was so long that by the time I got to the end I had forgotten the beginning...

c_d_s wrote:
Translation: "I want to sell prints of models that I have photographed to agencies for use in catalogs and calendars, so that both the models and I can make money."

Beal Photography wrote:
BINGO!!!!  First part is what i said, and you nailed the second part of my post.  Thank you, are you from Maine?  Just Kidding.

That's not how it works.


Here are a few ways it DOES work:

1. Someone wants some photos of themselves, or their children, or family. So they look for photographers in their area, they find you, and they hire you to do portraits.

2. An agency model gets signed, and she needs some photos for the agency website and her comp card. The agency has a list of recommended photographers, the model reviews their websites, talks to a few of them on the phone, chooses one, and hires him to shoot some photos for her.

3. A company needs some photos, so they hire a photographer. For example, a clothing store wants some new photos to use for advertising purposes.


But modeling agencies don't produce catalogs or calendars, and they're not interested in buying prints of the models you've already photographed.

BCADULTART wrote:

Sorry mark, but you are 100% WRONG.  My Epson Prints (Both color and B & W) will outlast anything that can be done using the "Wet Process" I.E. in the darkroom.
Years ago Ciba's and Dye Transfer color prints were the longest lasting, but the materials for Dye Transfer's is not made any longer.  I have prints made on a modern Epson using 100% rag 300gsm fine art paper that were sold by me, then resold by the buyer and while I only have 10 years of experience with digital (inkjet) prints, I do have prints that were hung in the sun along with standard
Kodak and FUJI C prints and the digital prints are holding up much better.  On
traditional B & W wet process using fiber based paper (I do have over 30 years
of making B & W fiber prints) the main issue is the process.  Again I could see my Epson inkjet prints on 100% rag paper lasting as long as or longer than the traditional prints.

I get angry when people make "Wrong" statements as you have.

As far as advice to the OP, All I can say is that you need to have images to print that there is a market for.  Then you need to have a reputation that makes the prints worth buying.  It is not easy.  Over the years I've sold hundreds of signed prints.  I will also tell the OP that there is little market for "Glamour" images in
Stock photography.  The requirements for submitting to the moneymaking agencies or libraries can be high.

There are way too many who think that anyone can make money in photography, in reality it is a difficult business.

Chuck

I have had print done with Epson and other ink jet printers some are only a few years old and I can see the ageing in them .

I Used to do Ciba but I will always think the best lasting print is a Traditional B&W .

I DO sell prints and some of my Buyers will NOT go near any ink jet print .all they want is traditional B&W

As for stock angencys  ,,I dont sell to them ..I dont sell images ..I only sell prints that I have done ,, I dont even hire my self as a photographer

ESCALANTE wrote:

Joe Scrogham wrote:
Nice speech, do you have any USEFUL advice for him or is badgering him the best your going to do?

How about re-reading what was written .




I gave alot of great advice , try a little harder , it is in there.


Disclaimer (for the whiners > not saying the OP is a Whiner either becase he is not , he posted a legit question. )
to the OP , I had written This on another similar thread , This should Answer yours as well .. It should shed some light on issue are you are not taking in to consideration.
Not meant as any type of Offense to you at all .
Best of Luck to you Jim


E
p.s.

On your Photoshop Point on Less Is Best.
WRONG

YOu are not grasping that CONCEPT.
You are suppose to EDIT IMages SO they LOOK AS IF THEY HAVE NOT BEEN EDITED.
SOft FOCUS translates in to BLURRY UNEDITED IMAGES.

One of the Many points you are going to begin educating yourself on.

Regardless of Markets , Quality is  Quality regardless of Location.

First up, i want to say that you have given a very sound advice and have some very strong points.  For any one that i got badgered well i did not take it that way. I took it as a learning experience.  I asked for advice and i have got some good stuff.  I want to say something thou, just so you know.  I am not a fashion photographer and neither is my wife. As i said on the very first post, we are landscape exhibitors that have exhibited all over new england.  We have been for a small time business been fairly successful.  We are now trying people and still learning.  If that makes me a hick, amatuer, or wanna be with a camera well oh well. None the less, I was asking for advice in a field i was unfamilar.  And all of you have given some good points.  However, just so you know, I might not have this model people thing perfect yet, which i will, my wife and i are far from a wanna be hobbyist.

BCADULTART wrote:
Not to highjack the OP's thread, but

Any form of printing requires a certain amount of knowledge and the proper materials.  When I speak of "Inkjet prints using an Epson printer" I am speaking
of the printer only, I have not touched a sheet of "Epson" paper in years.  I have
tested my Epson inkjet prints against a C print, made by a very high-end Pro lab and after nearly 10 years I would take my Epson inkjet print over the C print.

In terms of sales of prints, I’ve done just fine and at a good price.  I’ve not had a single customer complain.

Again, your statement about inkjet prints is WRONG.

Chuck

I agree.  I use only epson inks,papers, and printers.  I have tried C print and found that it is an little more expensive product with well maybe some benifit.  We wet mount, matte, and frame all of all our prints.  The only thing that we outsource is the C Print. To date, we have hundreds of satified customers over the past 10 yrs.  Just so everyone knows, if you have any interest to see how wanna be we are go to barnes and noble, amazon, and several other major book store and look for "in the spirit of photography, chasing mr. adams" in february 2010.  It is a 100 page picography of the southwest, and all the major canyons.  authors?  My wife and I.

Beal Photography wrote:
First up, i want to say that you have given a very sound advice and have some very strong points.  For any one that i got badgered well i did not take it that way. I took it as a learning experience.  I asked for advice and i have got some good stuff.  I want to say something thou, just so you know.  I am not a fashion photographer and neither is my wife. As i said on the very first post, we are landscape exhibitors that have exhibited all over new england.  We have been for a small time business been fairly successful.  We are now trying people and still learning.  If that makes me a hick, amatuer, or wanna be with a camera well oh well. None the less, I was asking for advice in a field i was unfamilar.  And all of you have given some good points.  However, just so you know, I might not have this model people thing perfect yet, which i will, my wife and i are far from a wanna be hobbyist.

Photography isn't my full time job and most of the money I do derive from photography is either from shooting weddings or family or senior portraits, not prints.  So you can take what I say with a grain of salt, but my strongest suggestion would be to post in the critique section.

I am a salesman by trade, and one of the things we sometimes say half jokingly is "never confuse selling with installing", which translates to "selling and marketing can be the hardest part", but we never kid ourselves into thinking we could make sales if we didn't have a product that people want and that we can stand behind.

Learning how and where to sell is important, but so is having a product or service that there will be a demand for.

GM Photography wrote:

Photography isn't my full time job and most of the money I do derive from photography is either from shooting weddings or family or senior portraits, not prints.  So you can take what I say with a grain of salt, but my strongest suggestion would be to post in the critique section.

I am a salesman by trade, and one of the things we sometimes say half jokingly is "never confuse selling with installing", which translates to "selling and marketing can be the hardest part", but we never kid ourselves into thinking we could make sales if we didn't have a product that people want and that we can stand behind.

Learning how and where to sell is important, but so is having a product or service that there will be a demand for.

Several folks here have said the same thing about the critque forum.  I placed the thread here because it took a long while to get where I am today with many months of spinning my wheels.  Guess i was looking for a short cut.  Not looking for critquing anything.  Was looking for advice on a path to travel to get where i am going.  Everything on MM is practice, there will be a big difference when i get to my final destination.

ESCALANTE wrote:
I had written This on another similar thread , This should Answer your's as well ..



If this is what you consider a form of making money as a photographer then I suggest you Keep this at a hobby level then.

I find it is so strange that so Many people think that a career can be started on a website that is considered a version of My space / friendster .

I recommend you take a long look at what you are shooting, and learn what being a real Professional Photographer entails.
It is no less then the wanna~be web-models thinking that a few pictures posted on here makes them an Instant Supermodel.

As I have written on so MANY other threads such as this, Go learn what this industry requires and what type of Business you want to run using your Camera.

If this is your " Current Profession" then why are you starting something with out knowing what to do ?
Would you open up a restaurant with out knowing the first thing about cooking or much-less how to run a business ?

Well guess what , You are doing JUST THAT.

Get off the Computer and go learn what the REAL world does & doesn't do .
I have been a Professional Photographer since way before the advent of the World Wide Web .

Answer WHY should I even consider paying you for ANYTHING?

Just because you own a camera ? Because you Spent money on Lighting equipment ? Just because you have a computer with Image Editing Software?
WHAT MAKES YOUR WORK WORTHY OF BEING PURCHASED?

Where have you been Published ?

Who are your Corporate Clients ? Who are the Business that have had enough faith in your talents as a Photographer to PAY you ?

I mean real Businesses? Not Wannabe MM web models who are just as clueless.
Above and Beyond those questions
WHAT Licenced and Bonded  AGENCY ARE YOU CURRENTLY Testing for ? What Licenced and Bonded REALY WORLD MODELING Agency is PAYING you for Your services ?

How can you Expect to be Paid for "helping to develop a Model's Portfolio" If you have NEVER shot or much-less walked in to a Agency Office to Justify BEING PAID ? [b][i]