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Don't Feed The Newbies!!!
I've been pretty satisfied with this site so far, though I have started to see a less than positive trend while using the browse function over the last few days. There's lots of new models arriving with plain awful portfolios and they're demanding pay. Repeat after me, whether you're a pro photographer or semi-pro (GWC's don't matter cuz' they won't listen anyway): "DON'T FEED THE NEWBIES!" Mock them if you wish but let's not encourage the mindset that says that even with no experience, you're going to command 100 an hour just because. 'Nite all. Jul 20 05 04:17 am Link I agree but there are some MORONS WHO WILL PAY THE $100 just to see them naked. Happens all the time. I blame OMP for this. Models with experence can ask for whatever they want and they may get it. So the newbies comes along and they see what the older models are asking and they figure they can get the same money. But ASKING FOR and GETTING what you ask for is not always possible. They have to have the experience first. Money comes later if at all. Most just seem to drop out after no offers or their boyfriends make them stop modeling. Happens all the time. bs Jul 20 05 04:51 am Link "The Quality Of The Shoot Or The Quanity Of The Loot" Hugh Jorgen Jul 20 05 05:06 am Link but...can I at least have a cookie?  . Or some pictures? Jul 20 05 08:51 am Link Posted by Crimson Butterfly: Hehe - Cookies, softdrinks - dinner/lunch always provided as well as CD or prints... Jul 20 05 08:55 am Link I couldn't agree more! Too many people with digital cameras "posing" as photographers and paying girls to take off their clothes in hotel rooms. These images will never be seen except on the photographers own computer and possibly his website. When legitimate offers for tear sheets come along, paid or not, I get a lot of models who turn their nose up. What happened to the old days when models could see the big picture and realize they will make more money in the long run by not posing for everybody??? Just me 2 cents Jul 20 05 08:58 am Link Somebody needs like a standard post reply (or maybe an image like the "Search Function - It's a Good Thing" one) that says: "If you want to spend money to see girls naked, please make rational economic choices. You can see all the naked girls you want for way less than $100/hr at a strip club. Also, they will rub all over you. Think about it." M Jul 20 05 09:00 am Link I think that most of these guys have the fantasy of being Hugh Hefner. Maybe they might get lucky!  Jul 20 05 09:04 am Link Just don't use the new , rookie models if ya don't want. I have been in this long enough to have a LONG list of experienced models.(Every Experienced photographer should just from shooting and going to conventions and shootouts) If a young model comes to you with a demand that you don't think is worthy then dont use her... who care if she goes down the street and shoots with someone else for $100/hr or other fee.... If you are a photographer that is offering something better than Glamour shots then she will want to add you work to her port for trade if she has more than immediate money on her mind... OTHERWISE just stick to your list of established models, that every experienced fotog has... I rely on those models to direct other names to me too. The modeling world is saturated with BOTH experienced and Amateur models AND PHOTOGRAPHERS. Jul 20 05 09:06 am Link Posted by Mark Crismond Photos: You mean I'm not??? Geeez - I knew there's something wrong with my mansion... Jul 20 05 09:12 am Link Posted by Hartsoe: Posted by Crimson Butterfly: Hehe - Cookies, softdrinks - dinner/lunch always provided as well as CD or prints... oooh..i wanna work with you! Cookies, Soft drinks AND cd or prints?! *thinks...* Cookies+Caffeine+Pictures=fun and possibly dangerous. Yay! Jul 20 05 09:16 am Link Posted by Crimson Butterfly: Dangerous...? Naahh - I'm just a regular GWC sneaking into the "Studio/Caféhouse" niche. Jul 20 05 09:53 am Link I will never pay a newbie or an established model. TFCD? Perhaps, but very rare. I agree, I think it's incredulous that a model with a portfolio full of shots taken by a webcam can demand pay, no matter how much the amount. 'nuff said! Jul 20 05 07:19 pm Link Posted by Boyd Hambleton: I don't think I've ever gone on record to say, that I never work with Amateurs, or No Experience models who charge $100 an hour for whatever genre. That's ridiculous as heck. Even, if it's for nude, most don't know how to pose to flatter their bodies. So, I pass. Besides, I don't need to have nudes in my port. So, if that's what these noobs are thinking is gonna attract me...please...I'd just as soon blow $300 on a Professional and heavily experienced Model who have looks that can kill. Jul 20 05 07:36 pm Link I concur. Although we were all newbies at one time or another, we paid our dues with an infinite amount of TFP's. Now after we've been out there and published we should not lower our standards and pay models. TFP.... Maybe, but this aient no free ride. Jul 20 05 07:48 pm Link Jul 20 05 07:58 pm Link I'm a newbie but I don't want $100 or any naked photos. I just want to talk with other models and photographers and maybe even shoot with some... N e ways i think its a harsh generalization... You can still look at my pictures though. I'd really appreciated tips or critiscm too! Jul 20 05 08:01 pm Link i would have to agree with not feeding the newbies and i am a newbie....although its hard to find models for TFP's its even harder not to come across a portfolio that has some awful photos. i am sure i am not one to talk and i have had my share or wierd models but when someone wants to see T&A and can pay an inexperienced model then its rough on the TFP newbies. now with that said start ragging on my guys i know your itching to!! Jul 20 05 08:01 pm Link Posted by Makayla: Hehe. Look forward to meeting you next weekend. Jul 20 05 08:05 pm Link Jul 20 05 08:06 pm Link What is a nice quote...."Come to the darkside....we have cookies!" LOL This is going to be quite a wicked Group Shoot. See everyone there! Ms. Isadora VonPainne Jul 25 05 02:30 am Link Lets see before OMP was even a Wet Byte... Photographers where paying girls to remove clothes.. Come on its been around since the Camera was invented!!! Ther are always gonna be girls wanting money and guys wanting to spend it!! I have been doing this for over 40 years.. When i was about 10 i remember my aunt telling my mom that her husband spends all thier money shooting naked women..he was a photographer!! I never took that route!! "The Quality of Shoot" "Or the Quanity of Loot" Hugh Jorgen Jul 25 05 03:05 am Link people who speak the language of money and artists do not cross much. Just don't pay people who are new and or untalented. Demands are demands, and reality will hit untalented/ignorant people soon enough. The only thing that pays newbies is porn. Jul 25 05 04:21 am Link Lapis, I couldnt have said it better. From my point of view, the shoots I've done for pure Art have been the BEST photos! When there is no time limit, or money pressure involved, the creativity flows. Getting paid $$$ sure is nice, but it can make a newbie lazy thinking its always gonna be like this. When you are not getting paid money, I think it makes a person work harder cuz you realize the value of your time more and you put more into the photos. Altho they dont realize doing TFP is getting paid but in a different way. You ARE receiving prints/CD in exchange for your time. And this is essential in building a portfolio and growing as an Artist. Jul 25 05 04:34 am Link Posted by Boyd Hambleton: Boyd: Jul 25 05 06:20 am Link I have experinece and don't demand 100 bucks per hour.....but I get no TFCD offers  Must be too old time to quit Jul 25 05 06:27 am Link Donât feed newbies? Hogwash! I photograph because I love the art and the experience. Generally I do TFP/CD but come on, if I expect a model to drive clear across Iowa, I am coughing up some beans. Models need to eat and photographers need to eat. I have no problem with a model asking for payment for her services. I generally do not pay models, but if it helps their self worth, go for it. We all start this craft with visions of royalty and fame. Some of us learn reality sooner than others. If a model prices herself out of work before she learns her craft, she will simply walk away with less pain than the one who strips for everyone and only gets cookies. No, a model needs to go into this as an art form. Then if she makes a living at it or not, her experience will still be a rewarding one. But if she wants to earn a living right off the bat, she had best start at McDonalds. Larry Jul 25 05 07:14 am Link Don't pay newbies... just don't pay models, period! That will weed out all the sucky photographers and put more cash in the pros pockets because the models would have to start paying for shit. WORD! Jul 25 05 09:31 am Link i've noticed this is actually going both ways. for every new bad model on here, there's a crappy photographer to go along with them. i also noticed people as just cutting and pasting their random myspace pics as well. perhaps the site should get some new guidelines or something. Jul 25 05 11:30 am Link Posted by * Visual Mindscapes *: OH NO. If you did this, I'd never model again. I can't afford (yet) to pay you geniuses! Jul 25 05 11:36 am Link Holy Smoke!! An earlier thread talked about how TFP/CD was ruining the business... Now this tread talks about how MONEY is ruining the nubies... What's a Nubie photog to do?? BTW... I can't afford to pay models. I do spring for lunch or dinner, refreshments and snacks. I also give a CD of the finished product. But I don't demand pay, either! I think the quality of the work is the basis for pay. There are models I would pay, (if I could), but they are not new to it. That is a quality issue! They know how to move, they know how to pose, and they will do what needs to be done for the image. I won't charge for my work until I am satisfied that the work is of a quality to deserve payment. That (for me) is a quality issue! So... I guess I agree! I don't pay models... they don't pay me! Jul 25 05 12:08 pm Link Posted by Hugh Jorgen: Obviously spoken from experience and well put. Jul 25 05 12:49 pm Link I've been modeling since i was 16 (which is alomst 4 years) I just started getting paid work recently, and trust me the pay isn't even that great. You're exactly right these girls need to realize they need more experience. I don't do any nude work so maybe thats why photographers didnt offer me money earlier! But I'm happy about that!! Jul 25 05 12:55 pm Link Just my 2 cents worth - I have yet to pay cash for a nubie - althought TFP/CD costs me anyway in time. I have paid for models but only for projects that I had a real desire to do and then I picked the model that suited that project - I picked her because she was a pro - and the results were well worth the price. If I see a nubie with a lot of potential, I am more than happy to help out with some pics, not cash. A true photographer can tell the flash in the pan nubies from the ones that want to and will make it. There will always be GWC and the flash in the pan nubies for them to feed off of. As for the real models, give the real photographer credit, we are looking for that purfect image and that could be you! If it were just fro a nude girl, well I can see one anyday and have a beer at the same time! It is for the art of creation - that is what a real model/ photographer aims for. Do not let the flash in the pan nubies bother you, they serve a purpose and keep the GWC entertained while the rest of us make magic! Jul 25 05 01:13 pm Link Posted by CharliesImages: Posted by Boyd Hambleton: Boyd: Very true but it has nothing to do with being a free site!! Jul 25 05 01:20 pm Link Posted by * Visual Mindscapes *: THANK YOU! Jul 25 05 01:28 pm Link from a newer models perspective, as much as i love doing this and do it because i love it, i'd like to pont out that a lot of us ask for pay because we get too many TFP offers... i don't ask for a hundred dollars and hour (thats insane i'd have to model FOREVER before i convinced myself i was worth that) but i do ask for travel expenses to get covered and try to make a couple bucks so i can eat for the next few days. I'm trying to get into the biz but it's just impossible without making SOME money. i understand photographers need to make money too but i put in just as much effort and they do by standing on my tiptoes, with my back arched, covered in mud under an icy waterfall!!!! everybodys trying to make a buck, thats the way the world goes. void Jul 25 05 01:36 pm Link Posted by Void SansAnge: Too many TFP offers? Try limiting your tfp to photographers which actually have a chance of producing professional quality images (you don't really have any in your portfolio, sad to say). Then you might be able to assemble a book which would warrant charging a fee. Jul 25 05 01:41 pm Link Hey, I'll post nude for $100 but that's not taking into account of your broken nose and what the court will do for you for posession of child pornography. I don't really think it's the young new models like myself. I think it's more of the older new models. Or maybe it's just me. Jul 25 05 03:44 pm Link I am a pretty new model (starting last september) and I don't expect pay at all. I know I do not have enough experience to be payed. Although I've had a few photographers that have offered me money and TFP/CD. Granted I love being paid but right now I would much rather get TFP/CD over getting paid. I know I need to build my portfolio and TFP/CD's help me greatly. Jul 25 05 07:47 pm Link |
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