Posted by Mary: 
email me

[email protected]

ok Mary, thanks ... on it's way!

Posted by Bruce Caines: 
this sounds too borderline for me. if your friend is feeling this is not cool--and i suggest she start feeling that way--call the credit card company tonight and have them void the charge. if the bill hasn't been processed yet, the credit card company cannot do anything until the charge goes through. but she should tel them she wants this charge voided.

the best thing about paying by credit card is that they will act as an intermediary in a dispute. and if she used american express, they will hunt down the scammer and feed his children to rabid wolves.

Yes, that's one of the great things about credit cards ... the "chargebacks" to any scammers!  The charges have already gone thorugh and a monthly payment made too, but that should not matter if services are not delivered!

Posted by SayCheeZ!: 
I checked the NJ Secretary of State database.  There IS a company licensed to do business by the name "Dawn Til Dusk Professional Makeup, Inc."    That's the good news because most fakers or scammers that use the "inc." title really aren't properly incorporated, so it's much harder to find out who the people really are.

The bad news is the state does not disclose detailed information about the companies online, so that's about all of the information that I could find.

The confidentiality notice is bupkiss.  Many people /scammers have tried to 'scare' people by using this tactic to keep them from displaying the message and warning others.  The confidentiality notice that you've received has no legal foundation... Nothing... nada.

The CLOSEST form of binding confidentiality agreement that possibly exists in a situation like this is a common one called a "Non Disclosure Agreement" (or NDA).  An NDA is used regularly in business.  To be enforceable, the person receiving the information must AGREE TO THE TERMS of the NDA BEFORE the information is divulged.

You did not agree to any such terms of confidentiality, so you are within your rights to display the message to anyone and everyone that you wish.

Thank you for looking that up!  It seems that she did only a limited amount of research on this company. The "price" was right, but she never talked with anyone with experience dealing with them. 

I'm trying to get her to join this website ... but what are some of the better places to learn make up?  Or to learn advanced techniques in make up? 

Posted by Patrick Walberg: 
This must be my week for DRAMA!!!!   

OK, now I have a long time friend who has done MU for me in the past. She wants to sharpen her skills so she enrolled in a class at http://www.makeupclasses.com  also known as Dawn Til Dusk Professional Makeup & Photography Inc.

The problem is that after putting a deposit of $1,000 on a credit card, she has not gotten a confirmation or even directions as to where the class is to be taught in San Jose, CA.  She is taking off work from her regular job as a photographer of babies.  She also is going to be leaving Las Vegas where her husband and daughters are to stay in San Jose at her parents while she takes this MU course. It is a costly sacrifice for her and now she does not know what to do!  She is supposed to be in San Jose in a couple weeks, and she has called and e-mailed many times in the past couple weeks to this company!

I called the guy who is supposed to be the owner on Tuesday of this week. It was his cell phone and he was driving but seemed pleasant enough. His excuse was that he is so terribly busy! (busy spending hers and other money???)  He was going to e-mail me right away. Now it is Saturday and NO messages, SO I left a message today.

Shortly after I called and said that we would take action on this if we do not hear from him by Tuesday ... Then this is the e-mail my friend got today!  It was a form letter not even to her name;


Subj: Class Confirmation 
Date: 7/23/2005 2:44:55 P.M. Pacific Standard Time
From: XXXXXXXXXX
To: XXXXXXXXXXX
Sent from the Internet (Details)


Hello,

I am responding to an email about our San Jose class for Russ Park, his
father passed last week and Russ is away taking care of his family. He
will be back on Thursday of next week where I will have him contact you.


Lauren XXXXXXX
Career Specialist
Dawn Til Dusk Professional Makeup & Photography Inc.
www.makeupclasses.com
Toll Free: 1 877 DAWN TIL
[email protected]

Our makeup and products can be purchased at
www.purchasemakeup.com


CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:
This message may contain information that is confidential and belongs to
the sender, which is legally privileged. The information contained herein
is intended only for the use of the individual or entity recipient. If you
received this message in error or through inappropriate means, please
REPLY to the message to notify the sender that this message was
erroneously received by you, and then permanently delete this
message from all storage media, and destroy any paper copies of this
message. You are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.

---------- end of message ----------

So tell me, does this look or smell like a SCAM??????

Well according to the "confidentiality notice",  I guess I just broke the law by posting it here?  LOL

She WILL get her money back if this is some sort of scam. Then the next question is what schools would be good for her to look into? Either in Las Vegas or San Jose.  She was a good MU artist when I worked with her, and I would like to see her get back into doing it.  The class is important to her to gain her confidence back!

OH BOY!  HERE WE GO!  I CAN TELL YOU ALL ABOUT RUSS PARK AND DAWN TIL DUSK!  I USED TO BE THEIR PHOTOGRAPHER.  CONTACT LYNN, #1472, AND ASK HER ABOUT THEM.  ALSO, EMELLE CAN TELL YOU ABOUT THEM.  CONTACT ME.

Herb
[email protected]

Posted by EmElle: 
I can tell you lots.

Lots.

But, his father died last year just before Christmas, according to a series of phone calls Mary and I got from Russ himself then.

That's just a small small part of all this.

Get the chargeback IMMEDIATELY.  You will not get a refund from them.  It's not in their refund policies to offer it.

If your MUA friend would like private lessons, have her contact me.

After you're done with Mary, call me if you like.  You can email me direct at [email protected].

One more thing, as Herb, Mary, Mary Lynn, and I will tell you, Russ is why black lists were invented.

Oh, and you can refer your friend to the makeup forum Mary and I run at www.makeupartist.com and you should also see this thread (from the forum):
http://p082.ezboard.com/fmakeupandrelat … 7121.topic

Edited to add:
One further thing, however, is that the class is listed for October, and the listing on their site mentions where it is.  (Not that that excuses anything else Russ is doing, btw.)

EmElle,

It's nice to think that the chickens just may be coming home to roost for this creep.

Herb

Posted by Star: 
besides yourself, hmmmm......

Watch it girly or I will take YOU off of the list and then there will be 9 plus me.

Posted by Jack D Trute: 
We it.   When of Gone not quote thing.

couldn't agree more


(Robert (A-T's dad))

Posted by Jack D Trute: 
Sorry but a Pet peeve here off topic.   When you quote such a long quote,  is that necessary really?   Did we miss something the first time?   Many people do it.   I do not get it.
Just mention who you are responding to or shorten the quote.
Intelligent people will get it.

Well, I try not to quote the whole thing, usually snippets.

However, since people can edit and remove whatever their text was, I actually kinda like the whole quote.  This way, I won't miss something.  Then, the edit freaks look really stupid too for trying to deny a comment someone already quoted.

Oh, and you can refer your friend to the makeup forum Mary and I run at www.makeupartist.com and you should also see this thread (from the forum):
http://p082.ezboard.com/fmakeupandrelat … 7121.topic

Emelle gave the wrong web address...she gave my portfolio address.  The message board for makeup artists is www.themakeupstudio.com

Posted by area291: 
Patrick,
Just a note of caution...

You have placed yourself in peril by posting that e-mail sent with the confidentiality notice.

Not saying it will happen, but legal action could be taken and will be within their legal right to uphold the rights demanding, and accepted, upon reading the confidentiality statement.

Ummm, Area...
I don't think you read the whole thread.
At the risk of repeating myself. I'm repeating myself:

"The confidentiality notice is bupkiss. Many people /scammers have tried to 'scare' people by using this tactic to keep them from displaying the message and warning others. The confidentiality notice that you've received has no legal foundation... Nothing... nada.

The CLOSEST form of binding confidentiality agreement that possibly exists in a situation like this is a common one called a "Non Disclosure Agreement" (or NDA). An NDA is used regularly in business. To be enforceable, the person receiving the information must AGREE TO THE TERMS of the NDA BEFORE the information is divulged.

You did not agree to any such terms of confidentiality, so you are within your rights to display the message to anyone and everyone that you wish."

Mary the Makeup artist further explains it as well, and adds  an EXCELLENT EXAMPLE of such a situation (which reminds me that I better go and clean out the trunk of my car).

from my understanding those confidentiality notices are worth ZERO. You never agree to anything when someone sends you an email. People can not make demands on you and assume you will agree to them just by reading them.

what if the email said at the bottom

By reading this email you agree to send me $700.00 a week and oh yea...to by my sex slave for the next 365 days. Or, what if you put a notice on your 10 pounds of marajuana in the trunk of your car "if you open this package you agree to ignore and never mention what you found inside" I wonder how quickly that would stop the cops

Posted by Patrick Walberg: 
Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed how messages get stuck between pages here ... ????

It took another post to get this "Page 2" to show!

This is actually mentioned in the Site Suggestions forum.

Posted by Patrick Walberg: 

Posted by Bruce Caines: 
this sounds too borderline for me. if your friend is feeling this is not cool--and i suggest she start feeling that way--call the credit card company tonight and have them void the charge. if the bill hasn't been processed yet, the credit card company cannot do anything until the charge goes through. but she should tel them she wants this charge voided.

the best thing about paying by credit card is that they will act as an intermediary in a dispute. and if she used american express, they will hunt down the scammer and feed his children to rabid wolves.

Yes, that's one of the great things about credit cards ... the "chargebacks" to any scammers!  The charges have already gone thorugh and a monthly payment made too, but that should not matter if services are not delivered!

i just did that but i had problems!

I was told by Mastercard that it isnt possible to void anything...the charges are GARUNTEED paid once they have your details!!

WTF!!

i explained A there was no signIture  B the wrong person gave the card/ gave permision to charge it, C the company concerned never called ME the card holder for authorization although they WERE given my number and  D the wrong ammount was taken ($1200 instead of $300!!)

After a whole day on the phone requesting there HAS to be some proceedure SOME way to STOP this outrage, they agreed. but i had to cancel the whole credit card and apparently that may put all transactions since under investigation

i will let u know if this has a happy ending because you can FLY  from LA to London (with a limo collection and delivery) for $1200

what was the company?  Ballifs sent re  parking fines following up the wrong ticket/registration for 18 months to MY door at 6am!!  i am involved in an appeal but suddenly they have no record of that. Messy.

business ??

HUH!!

Posted by Patrick Walberg: 
About the blacklist ... yes, this online MU instruction school sounds like a very good argument in favor of having one!

For the record, Dawn Til Dusk Professional Makeup in Nutley, NJ, is an actual storefront operation.  Dawn Park used to do makeup for Salley Jessie Raphael and Maury Povich.  She's had the school for a few years, but her husband, Russ, only got involved about 2 years ago after he lost his job.  As I mentioned earlier, I used to do headshots for them.  From what I could gather, Russ is the lowlife and Dawn simply goes along with whatever he says, almost as though she's being held captive.  She always impressed me as being a sweet person.  I'm glad they dumped me last spring and that my name is no longer associated with them.   

Posted by Chris Ambler: 
Just a quick note on the email - the "confidentiality notice" at the bottom is largly unenforcable. A "contract of adhesion" is, in essence, a contract drafted by one party and offered on a take-it-or-leave-it basis or with little opportunity for the offeree to bargain or alter the provisions.

That said, if you're in an existing arrangement with the sender, the confidentiality notice might simply be a reminder of an existing agreement to keep confidential anything sent.

This does NOT appear to be such a case.

PS: This is NOT legal advice. I am but a small, green cucumber.

There is certain confusion as to what can and what can't be enforced.  While the confidentiality notice itself might not be enforced, information contained could be considered proprietary and release of such might be viewed as cause to do harm. 

It goes to the spirit and intent of those releasing the information that might show cause to do damage, not releasing the information itself.  The confidentiality notice is not a contract, it merely gives warning that due diligence must be taken in the release of information. 

The defense, "I didn't know I couldn't release the information" thus becomes a more difficult stance to take should the sending party take action against one that uses that information to release proprietary statements that go against the sending party in a spirit and intent to defame based on that specific information.

The notice could also serve to void the engagement of certain 3rd party testimony.

The confidentiality does not work to hide criminal activity / intent as earlier suggested, but will act to serve business interest protected by sending information in confidence.  Nearly every financial, health care and a myriad of other businesses have been legaly advised to incorporate such notice.  There is compelling reason they are included.

It's easy to interpret the law from a surface level and how things wouldn't stand to reason from that view.  But legal sharks go much deeper and will drag that surface matter and those to the bottom with them.

The comment went to being careful, not the legality itself. Why throw oneself in the water with sharks?

It's easy to interpret the law from a surface level and how things wouldn't stand to reason from that view.  But legal sharks go much deeper and will drag that surface matter and those to the bottom with them.

The comment went to being careful, not the legality itself. Why throw oneself in the water with sharks?

You clearly did not read my disclaimer earlier!



Disclaimer

By reading any post by Mary I agree to fully agree with everything that is written by Mary or her representitives.

Should I disagree I will keep it to myself and understand that I probably just don't know as much as she does. Furthermore, should I slip up and disagree in public on any forum I will put myself in the time out box for a duration of 72 hours to contemplate my stupidity, this will be followed by a public apology.

I agree to arbitration rather then legal counsel should a law suit arise from any written dispute with Mary, I further understand that Mary will be the arbitrator of all said disputes.

By reading this you waive any rights to legal counsel and understand that you do not need to sign an agrement to make this a valid contract. It is valid now and goes into affect now.