hermans wrote:
Some youthful indiscretions are forgven, others not.

What we consider "indiscretions" varies from person to person.

Over 18 models should not necessarily set their values and standards in accordance when what OTHER people consider "youthful indiscretions" and instead make their own, personal judgments about what is right for them.

People are always trying to tell other people what they will regret doing "later." For many of us, we will spend more time "later" regretting what we did NOT do at all.

Malin_ wrote:
I really enjoyed reading this! GREAT post; it should be stickied!

+1
I'm agree also I bookmark this topic on my browser so if on future some model make some question about that i can find that topic more easy.

Poses wrote:
This is an excellent post.  Well done.

Edit: since you asked for other contributions:

Be prepared for the possibility that every one who has, is, or ever will be in your life will see every picture you pose for.  In fact, assume that they will.  You need to be okay with that risk.

X2.

I always advise novices to use a stage name, but I don't suggest it guarantees anything.  I hate hearing "My parents / boyfriend / whoever don't know I'm modeling" (or modeling nude) when those people are a key part of the model's life.  If you're 25 and living on your own, not telling your parents is your choice; although you should be prepared for them to see you.  But if you're 19, and dependent on their financial support, not telling them what you're doing is asking for problems, and not just for yourself.

Shiva said it, but I'll emphasize it, be prepared for people to misunderstand what you're doing.  Whatever level or style you do, someone will find a way to think it's "worse" than it is, and judge you in one way or another.  This is definitely not limited to the religious or conservative people among your contacts.

The Original Sin wrote:
One thing I would recommend is don't JUST network with photographers.  I may be a rarity, but I am always happy to help fellow models find work as they travel.  I trade contacts and recommendations for both models and photographers on a regular basis.

I'm currently on the phone with a guy who is begging me for help finding models in his market.  Unfortunately I have moved, so I'm trying to rack my brain for girls I know in his area, lol.

Excellent advice, again. 

Networking should, ideally, be across fields.  I recommend models and photographers to each other all the time, and I love getting a note from a model either recommending a friend or citing a friend as the reason they are contacting me. 

I'm really bad at it in practice, but if you're a professional free lancer, you need to make every contact in the industry a marketing opportunity.  If that person won't hire you, make sure they know you're available.  In some cases, this applies to trade work, but especially with paid.

Anthony Gordon wrote:
One thing I see often with models I work with is that they think they'll be able to model forever, or be set for life because of modeling and they have no plan for the future.  So I would add to this list, prepare for the future, what are you going to be doing after modeling and how do I get there?  Use modeling as a way to a bigger future, don't get caught without skills and no plan after the modeling gigs dry up.

Excellent point. 

At one extreme, you have a young woman who got a few, or a lot of, bucks for getting naked and blew it, and now is tired of it.  She leaves with nothing but worries about the pictures.

At the other, you have a young woman who ran a business which happened to have her nude modeling as a product.  She leaves with a wide range of valuable skills, and a long list of contacts both inside and outside the art world.  And, perhaps most valuable of all, a great reputation for professionalism.

Mizz Amanda Marie wrote:
...I feel extremely comfortable in my own skin and I'm in control of what I want to do. But I'm loving having very few limitations.

That's how I've always rolled and it made my shoots more enjoyable as I didn't have to worry about as much as some others.  In fact I just did a "mature woman panty fetish shoot" and enjoyed it and had fun with my colorful full bottom panties.  In fact as a side bonus I've learned to like them almost as much as thongs/g-strings

Sadie Seuss wrote:
It's been said earlier, but don't burn bridges with anybody, even if you think it doesn't matter (I.E. another model or somebody who you don't think you'll ever work with/for). People talk, and there are lots of talented models who lose work because they're bitchy/rude/whathaveyou. I've met models and photographers who were talented, but talked so much shit about other people that it made me nervous as hell, wondering what they were going to say about me. There are pretty big models that nobody has anything nice to say about anymore on any level because they're disgusted with them on a personal level. Be considerate, be polite, and don't shit talk, because it will almost certainly get back to whoever you're talking about.

EDIT:

The Original Sin works really well to illustrate my example; even though she's a model too and will probably never hire me, she has a lot of contacts in my market and can recommend me to paying jobs. However, if every time I see her I just talk about how such and such model has a fat ass, she's not going to recommend me for anything, and may even tell them to avoid me.

(Renee, I figured you'd be okay with that example )

Of course I am and you are exactly right.

Shelly Knott wrote:

How does this work? I mean if your doing 18+ work, you need to show ID, thus your real name.

Most photogs are cool about only using your stage name to publish your photos. That is how it was for me at the tail end of grad school and during my first post-grad job. Now I just use my real name again.

LaModele was always goin 2 B a STAR!!! She likes long walks and hawt grrrrrlz, and puppies are teh kewtz. XD!!!  NO NUDES CUZ I HAZ A JESUS!

LaModele always brings her Aunty J33-Doodle and LaModele's boyfriend, and if u don't want them there u r not a professional! U has 2 have a bangin' portfolio, full studio, and tearsheets before u can shoot LaModele.

$100/hr for fashion work, $200/hr for swimsuits, lingerie or glamour.

I will only get n00d for Playboy!

I would reword the bio, eliminate some of the "requirements" and work at promoting personality above looks for a while.  You may be as sweet as spun sugar, but what you have written doesn't show that right now, and will not help you in setting your rates.  A basic bio works much better when worded like so:

I am a brand-new face on the scene.  I am focusing on fashion, commercial, promotion and talent castings at this time, although I will consider other projects on a case-by-case basis.  Please feel free to contact me with your ideas and offers!

I prefer to bring an escort to my shoots, but will still request references and credits.  At this time I am focusing on working with strong photographers, preferably with a commercial background or credits to show.

My rates are flexible and negotiable, depending on the shoot's budget and content.

I am currently not seeking nude work, unless it is for a national publication or legitimate commercial tearsheet.

If you're new and do not yet have a massive stockpile of references and images in a wide range to show, right now you will probably do best by asking "What is the budget for this shoot" rather than saying "These are my rates."  Build up a reputation as an excellent model to work with first, and as your reference list and credits grow, you can start negotiating higher rates.

Also, a lot of photographers call it "stripper rates" if you set it so that your price goes up as your clothes come off.  I tend to agree.  You're better off, if you are determined to set rates, to set a flat hourly, half-day and full-day rate, and negotiate from there.

rhus wrote:
THANK YOU, ShivaKitty!  This is absolutely wonderful.  I wish, when I'd started out, I'd had this information in one spot, out of the mouth of a model.  I got a lot of good advice and did a lot of research, but it took forever and I still don't think the info I gleaned was as comprehensive as your post. 

I would add:

-Remember that you are your own boss.  If you know you've behaved in ways that aren't good for your career, don't make excuses for yourself.  Alter your behavior.  Assess yourself periodically to make sure your habits are conducive to getting you work as a model.  Seek advice from other experienced insiders when you need it.

The OP was awesome-but this hit home. Try not to take things personally. Many times photographers look at models as a subject of their art and may say things that hurt. Some of us are older-and honest about it, some are bigger and this may be brought up during a shoot. This happened recently and I reacted to the statement and it changed the dynamics between us. xxxoo Good luck to all of you.

The Original Sin wrote:
I'm copypastaing this from another thread.  I'm editing it to be generalized, and make more sense for this.

When you start considering going full-time, take a good hard look at your profile on modeling websites.  Do you have all sorts of requirements and demands?  Are you working with tiered rates, or do you have a huge, screaming block of text saying NO NUDES, DON'T EVEN ASK, I HAVE STANDARDS/AM NOT A WHORE/LOVE BABY JESUS!? Are you demanding final approval of pictures, or requiring that you bring an escort without previous discussion of their presence?

(Note:  THIS IS NOT AN ESCORT ISSUE.  I don't care if you want one or not, but you need to negotiate such things politely beforehand, and if the photographer says no, either go without or don't go.  Do not show up on set with an unannounced escort- it's just rude, like bringing a dog to someone's house without asking first.  Yes, it may be well-trained (or not) but some people are allergic,or they may have dogs of their own that don't like company!)

Now, look at your profile as if YOU were the photographer or client, and analyze it from a BUSINESS STANDPOINT.  Would you want to work with someone who presents their resume in this manner?

If I was looking to hire a model, I would bypass a portfolio without looking, based on the following criteria:

-your bio is worded in such a way that I would be concerned about your attitude on set.  As a general rule, models in the internet modeling genre need to be personable first, and pretty second.  It doesn't matter how pretty you are if people think your attitude stinks.

-a list of requirements or demands.  You don't walk into an interview and immediately tell an employer that you need this and that, a personal assistant, and a company car before you will even consider working for them.  They will laugh at you and say "Next."

-Do your rates read like a cathouse menu?  So much for casual, so much for glamour, so much for implied, so much for topless, so much for nudes....  Come on, we're being hired to do a job.  We're not selling ourselves by the pound.

-Do you have a bunch of irrelevant information, or is your profile worded in the third person?  Is your profile well written, clear, concise and (FOR THE LOVE OF PETE!) following the basic rules of English language and grammar?

If not, there's a problem.  If this looks like your profile, even just a little bit, there is a MAJOR problem:

LaModele was always goin 2 B a STAR!!! She likes long walks and hawt grrrrrlz, and puppies are teh kewtz. XD!!!  NO NUDES CUZ I HAZ A JESUS!

LaModele always brings her Aunty J33-Doodle and LaModele's boyfriend, and if u don't want them there u r not a professional! U has 2 have a bangin' portfolio, full studio, and tearsheets before u can shoot LaModele.

$100/hr for fashion work, $200/hr for swimsuits, lingerie or glamour.

I will only get n00d for Playboy!

I would reword the bio, eliminate some of the "requirements" and work at promoting personality above looks for a while.  You may be as sweet as spun sugar, but what you have written doesn't show that right now, and will not help you in setting your rates.  A basic bio works much better when worded like so:


If you're new and do not yet have a massive stockpile of references and images in a wide range to show, right now you will probably do best by asking "What is the budget for this shoot" rather than saying "These are my rates."  Build up a reputation as an excellent model to work with first, and as your reference list and credits grow, you can start negotiating higher rates.

Also, a lot of photographers call it "stripper rates" if you set it so that your price goes up as your clothes come off.  I tend to agree.  You're better off, if you are determined to set rates, to set a flat hourly, half-day and full-day rate, and negotiate from there.

I hope the quotes don't get messed up, but this is fantastic.

When it comes to a novice or hobbyist, I think there's a lot of good reason for "TF for clothed and paid for nude."  With rare exceptions, such a model isn't going to ever get paid for clothed work; so if she charges for all shoots, she'll never get clothed shoots.  (In my opinion, assuming she is comfortable with nudes, she's smart she'll do mixed clothed / nude TF shoots with great photographers, but that's another matter.)

When it comes to a full time professional, I'd expect to generally see a standard rate for time.  TF, discounts, and special situations are handled privately.

Miss_May_ wrote:
I don't think this is limited to full time modeling but:

Be prepared to be subject to much external and self-criticism and to see pictures of yourself that are incredibly unflattering.

Oyyyy... So glad I read this thread. This just happened to me. The shots were the worst ever, and have been posted online, with absolutely no editing....... feeling that criticism about now! meh.

ShivaKitty wrote:

The people you are shooting with will, obviously, know your real name. Most releases have a slot for "real name" and "stage name." Those records (even 2257 for bondage and explicit work) are largely kept private, but can be accessed by the police/government if there is any question about the model's age at the time the photos were taken.

Do not use your real name on accounts on MM, FetLife, CraigsList, OMP, or however you network. If you have a website, use only your alias.

It's not really that hard. I've been modeling since 2005, much of it nude or otherwise "questionable" content, but if you type my birth name into Google, all you get is my college graduation announcement, and some press releases from an old job I had.

Just keep your real name off of EVERYTHING, except legal documents. People you shoot with should keep those records confidential.

Would you recomend I change my username? And is there a way that I can change my real full name MM has on file when I signed up?

savannah r wrote:
Would you recomend I change my username?

Yes, if your screen-name is, in fact, your real name.

savannah r wrote:
And is there a way that I can change my real full name MM has on file when I signed up?

I'm not sure. I made up some fake name to sign up for this account a few years ago. I'm not sure how that works, but since no one can really see your "real" name you are registered under, it is probably less of an issue.

I suspicion what is most important is what comes up when you put your birth name into the Google search box.

ShivaKitty wrote:
I suspicion what is most important is what comes up when you put your birth name into the Google search box.

Actually I would recommend checking this out every once in a while- I always tell my photographers I prefer to go by my stage name, but sometimes I have found a surprise or two... specially when it comes to pics taken in workshops with lots of students. Luckily, a nice e-mail telling them to please change my real name for the stage one always does the trick