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One thing I noticed looking at some members' profiles...
Why is it that somehow some members that are professional and experienced have really cold or arrogant profiles, i.e. somewhere along the lines of "I admit I'm not a nice person, I don't work with anyone for sympathy, I've worked with REAL models like so and so and I don't have time for you sad people? Does being bitchy take you far in the industry? Is having an attitude problem a necessity to be successful or at least pretend to be big? Or is it just a way of turning away wannabes? I've worked with many talented professionals that also have great personalities. But I have ran across a few photographers on MM that have a serious attitude problem for no apparent reason. I'm sure that goes for some models too. It's just interesting to me how professionalism in fashion, art, entertainment, etc are somehow characterized by arrogance and cockyness. I know some supermodels are known to have horrible personalities, like Naomi Campbell... but why is it that the industry is somehow attracted to that? Aug 05 05 07:59 am Link I guess it's the same reason that so many women, and some men, are attracted to these same traits when it comes to relationships.. For some unknown godly reason, people seem to fall head over heels for these types of people. Funny thing is, they always complain about it but never do anything to change. AND, always profess they just want to work/be with someone kind and decent.. Unfortunately, until we decide this is unacceptable behaviour, these types of people will never change.. Hell, just look how sports figures always seem to be forgiven when the beat the hell out of someone just because they make the team a winner. Guess it's all about the end result and not whether you treat people decently.. Guess that's why we'll always have the divas... Aug 05 05 08:07 am Link Posted by Keith aka Wolfie: HAHAHA! >sports figures beating up others Aug 05 05 08:08 am Link Posted by Sascha: Some people are just HIDEOUS on the INSIDE and it comes glaring through on their ports! lol Aug 05 05 08:12 am Link Everyone that has not been subjected to humility in life, can be a little arrogant. A little empathy "walk a mile in my shoes", would go a long way in promoting respect for each other. Or maybe not! Who knows. Aug 05 05 08:13 am Link Posted by Sascha: Don't leave out politics. Just look at the jerks who are running the country, from W on down. Ugliness seems to be the "in" thing in contemporary society as opposed to treating others as you wish to be treated. People have no incentive to change as long as their inappropriate behavior is tolerated. Aug 05 05 08:14 am Link I saw a model's profile the same way... very arrogant with the "you'd be lucky to have me" attitude. He was nice enough to leave a comment to an aspiring model that said "You look disgusting." Aug 05 05 08:16 am Link Posted by Lora: WOW. that's harsh!!! Aug 05 05 08:18 am Link Posted by Sascha: Posted by Lora: WOW. that's harsh!!! Yeah I reported him through email... I don't think anything was done. Aug 05 05 08:20 am Link Posted by Lora: Well, based on some of what I've read in some of the threads, Model Mayhem and other sites like it tend to be, to some extent, breeding grounds for such ugliness. Nastiness in the name of free speech seems to be some kind of disease that a great many of the twentysomethings and thirtysomethings have come down with. Parents of my generation generally taught their children that they shouldn't say anything if they didn't have anything nice to say. It would appear that that's not the way anymore. Popular culture often glorifies nastiness. Aug 05 05 08:32 am Link Posted by Herb Way: Posted by Lora: Well, based on some of what I've read in some of the threads, Model Mayhem and other sites like it tend to be, to some extent, breeding grounds for such ugliness. Nastiness in the name of free speech seems to be some kind of disease that a great many of the twentysomethings and thirtysomethings have come down with. Parents of my generation generally taught their children that they shouldn't say anything if they didn't have anything nice to say. It would appear that that's not the way anymore. Popular culture often glorifies nastiness. Very true. I can understand CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, though. I'd would rather have some of that, then nothing but nice comments just for the sake of being nice. I looked at this guy's profile and of course his head is blown up from all of the girls' comments and praises. I didn't sink as low as him but I was tempted! Aug 05 05 08:38 am Link seems some people think that being "professional" is equivalent to a$$hole. i read profiles of both photographers and models that smack of arrogance. maybe they weren't breastfed long enough! occassionally, when reading further i realize they are trying to weed out the posers, flakes and people who in all honesty should only be modeling or shooting photos for their closest, kindest and dearest friends and relatives. lol reporting that kind of behavior her isn't going to get you anywhere and certainly isn't the kind of stuff tyler or the moderators should be spending time dealing with. and when someone posts a nasty comment, you can always delete it. imho, it's better to leave it up because it just lets others see the boorishness of the poster. there really isn't an excuse for that kind of attitude/behaviour. i believe in karma, and the wheel will spin its way back to smack the a$$hole in the a$$. Aug 05 05 08:38 am Link I think on here, it's mainly wanna be attitude due to insecurity and hoping that being arrogant might make everyone else believe you're famous ;D I've seen a few big fish on here and most of them just scout for new faces (minus the arrogance) it seems. I've re-written my profile a few times, because I don't like getting the "let's shoot" mails and I have to pull the information throught the persons nose to find out if it's paid or not and it all just ends up writing way too many mails and not getting anywhere in the end  But everytime I write more "on to the point" profile, I think it makes me sound arrogant and that's not my intention either  I've worked one somewhat famous photographer who usually takes pictures of celebrities and such but he is such a laid back relaxed guy..when he wrks with stuck up models he usually complains to his friends about it later on and just gets the model to her job and ignores her People who are intelligent don't laugh at dumb people, it's dumb people pretending to be intelligent who laugh at dumb people...and same goes for being famous unless youre out to impress girls maybe and get laid maybe Aug 05 05 08:45 am Link Posted by Lora: I apologize in advance but. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL Aug 05 05 09:08 am Link I agree that some models and photographers equate "professionalism" with "arrogance" when it comes to an on line profile. I understand the logic a little if the arrogance is their way of discouraging new persons about contacting them. However I find it unfortunate that they choose to present themselves in this manner. Aug 05 05 09:16 am Link Why should photographers and models be any different then the rest of society? Personalities differ among people and any success usually accentuates both the good and the bad. If one is a truly professional in their work but also an A**hole, they usually don't discuss work with clients and are fronted by other people. You know the eccentricities and demands up front. A model or photographer is no different than any other job, its a question of can they deliver. They have a right to pick their jobs/clients just like a client has a right not to work with them. If a photographer or model is selective about what they'll do, that's their right. Of course, they can be arrogant mothers without being successful. Talent is not a prerequisite for having a bad personality or narcissism. Find somebody else to work with or be willing to take crap if you get any response at all. No matter how talented, being difficult to work with limits your jobs and potential. If you choose to put up with bad behavior, you are just reinforcing that type of attitude. Its all part of the service industry and life. Mike Aug 05 05 03:01 pm Link Posted by Lora: Hey, someone told me that once. Never to be heard from again..... Aug 05 05 03:08 pm Link Actually, I don't let it intimidate me at all. You have to think that they get a bazillion requests for TFPs and they may want to try and limit that by sending out a message (albeit in a really blunt way) that they are really professionals looking for professionals. I know a photographer who I worked with and we had a great time and got some great images and on His profile on another site was what you would describe as direct. He was to the point about who he was and what he was looking for. He contacted another model who knew me at the same time and she chose not to work with him because he sounded 'mean'. She has since rethought her decision and worked with him as well. I know one who charges a booking fee even for TFPs. You get it back when you show up, if you don't, you've paid for gas and time spent when he could have booked someone else. So, some of these profiles may sound cold, but they are like that for a reason, even if it doesn't make sense to us. Just don't let it bother you. If it bothers you, the don't get in contact with them. mike W says it best. Now, the guy who told that model she was disgusting: he needs to be shot. That was rude and uncalled for. To contact someone just to say that to them? If you don;t have anything nice to say.......you all know the rest. Aug 05 05 03:16 pm Link Some people want to seem more important than they are... Keep in mind that the internet isn't real... People are able to "talk themselves up" so to speak.. In the real world all you got to do is see how a photog works and look at their book... Online people tend to become the "person they wish they were" - minus the actual work... So if a photographer or someone rubs you the wrong way.. Just let it roll off of you.. If somebody's an asshole chances are they're full of shit *no pun intended* hee hee... btw- I'm glad you posted this thread Sascha... I've actually had instances where a photographer shot his mouth of online... I approached them in real life and you'd be surprised how they become really cordial and friendly after a few words...  ~Aug 05 05 03:17 pm Link Posted by Sascha: There are people with attitude problems and some people don't have the attitude problem. As long as you are doing your work...doing it well...I wouldn't worry about other people. Stay away from them! I would rather work with someone I get along with rather than someone who has an extreme attitude that I don't like. I think some people have to have some attitude when dealing with other certain people it is just knowing when to use it and when not to use it. I am sure Naomi didn't come into the industry bitchy, she just became that way over time with all the attention she received. I don't necessarily think the industry is attracted to that though....I think it ends up just happening in the mix of things and the end result is what you see. Aug 05 05 03:24 pm Link There's a fine line between pride and arrogance. People have to take the time to recognize which is which. Blatant arrogance doesn't have a steady room anywhere, but the tolerance and accomodation for it increases as you move up the food chain. Aug 05 05 03:32 pm Link Maybe it's just the hot weather or something in the water? Aug 05 05 04:04 pm Link The whole dynamic fascinates me. In real world situations where there are a lot of legitimate power players involved... say, a meeting involving a group of corporate top management, or a group of elected officials... there's often ego to spare, but there is also a check and balance system in that there are a lot of powerful people present, so no one individual will overplay their hand. It's just too risky, there's too much to lose. So the interactions tend to be much more subtle. The players are conscious of the dynamic, but often a random observer might not pick up on it at all. In such a situation, the harsh put-downs that often happen online would typically result in the offending individual being frozen out of future decisions. Part of what happens on sites like this is that things get out of balance. There are a handful of widely published pros who are usually too busy to engage in drama. Same with a lot of others (art photographers, models, and more) who are well known within a narrow niche market. These people may have the very direct profiles mentioned above, designed to weed out and scare away the wannabes. But it's not arrogance if you can back it up, and the work speaks for itself. Then there's a mid-level type, maybe technically competent, maybe not, but usually not especially imaginative. Often there are insecurity issues at work here, these are people who play big shot but maybe it's partially to prop up fragile egos. While most people at their level are just working hard to get ahead, these guys put on a big show, but there are nagging subconscious (and unacknowledged) doubts. They overcompensate by ripping anyone they perceive to be weaker than themselves, building themselves up by stepping on others. If they keep it up for long, everybody soon knows who they are. Big clients usually avoid these guys like the plague, to stay clear of any guilt by association. Then there are people who are simply young, inexperienced, lacking in social skills, or on rare occasions just a little short of a full deck. Some will grow out of it. Some won't. A lot of what I'm referencing is from life in general and not specific to photography. There was an interesting example passed along to me a few days ago. A bit player at a small regional theatre was having a classic case of swollen-head syndrome; she's been involved in a handful of productions, but never in a large venue and never for more than token pay. She found someone's personal belongings on the seat she decided to sit in, and dumped the bag out on the floor while making loud and rude remarks. The owner of those belongings happened to be the theatre critic for one of the major local papers, and that critic happens to be married to a local elected official. So you see... as is so often the case, the person putting on the big show was in reality the least powerful player in the equation. She was the big fish in the very small pond, and wandered into deeper water with bigger predators without ever realizing she had done so. Those bigger players have chosen not to retaliate, at least for now. But they won't forget, either. They certainly won't do anything to help the career of the person who annoyed them. Really, there's not much to do except be thoughtful and aware, take responsibility for ones actions, and make conscious decisions on who to associate with... or not. Aug 05 05 04:41 pm Link Posted by Sascha: It's difficult to explain why some folks think that being good at something, gives them the latitude to be mean spirited... but that really is their burden not yours. Just recognize it for what it means to you and then live your life the way you should. Be kind... be of service to others... and do something that makes your heart sing. Aug 05 05 05:37 pm Link LOL wowow everyone, I wasn't worried about them or intimidated by it. 'tis true it goes for the rest of the society, but I just found it really interesting that people that have wrong attitude sometimes seem to prevail, EVEN when their portfolios does NOT speak for themselves. For example there is one photographer that had such hi-ego profile that claimed he only works with "real" (professional) models and the only person I recognized in his folio was Adriana and it was a long shot of her posing at another camera, meaning he was in the same building with her but wasn't even a head/lead photographer. My opinion is that overt arrogance/ego doesn't really help that person's marketability or make his/her portfolio any better, plus it paints you as a very ugly person---so I almost feel sorry for those that don't seem to realize that. But then again, I guess I just see more of such case because I'm looking at online profiles of all these people : P Aug 05 05 07:10 pm Link Why do some people waste so much energy with being mean? Is is so hard to be nice? Sometimes when you don't have something nice to say, it's better to just not say anything ... I believe in that! Aug 05 05 07:25 pm Link Rule #26 Aug 05 05 08:24 pm Link cudos ; ) Aug 05 05 08:24 pm Link If you kick the rungs of the ladder out on your way to the top, it'll be a short, quick trip back to the bottom. -CH Aug 05 05 08:29 pm Link geez, my profile just smacks of nastiness.. what do you think? Peace, Rexy Inc Aug 05 05 08:30 pm Link I think I'm too much a nOOb as I'd rather hug most people and invite them all to a grand meet and greet this weekend to network anyone that is willing to drive to the location. *steps off box-o-soap* Aug 05 05 08:37 pm Link I wonder how my profile comes across. It's not the most positive description but thats because I'm trashing myself and not trying to pass myself off as a pro. Aug 05 05 08:46 pm Link Posted by Nat Meo: geez nat - don't be so hard on yourself, your work is fine, as good as or in most cases better then some so-called pro's on here mate. Aug 05 05 08:59 pm Link Can not speak to other photogs at all, but my experience with prospects dictates my "tude"....Messages back and fourth, emails back and fourth....I say call me, lets talk, but still messages, messages, meassages !! It gets annoying. Or "what kind of shots are you looking to take ?" I go on explaining my ideas, only to MAYBE get a responce days later, and they say " what else ? I'm not sure I like that ", then the mailings start again.....Crap, no wonder the photogs get pissed ! Either your serious, or not...BUT CALL SO THERES NOT SO MUCH WASTING OF OUR TIME....AND STOP STEALING SHOOT IDEAS ! ( great idea for a thread ) Aug 05 05 09:17 pm Link  Aug 05 05 09:31 pm Link being nice gets me no where, but i don't know how to be cold and arrogant Aug 05 05 09:34 pm Link Posted by Sascha: I have a smiley face in my profile. Aug 06 05 12:40 am Link yeah there are some not so nice people but try not to pay attention, take it with a grain of salt, dust the dirt of your shoulder. you know? Aug 06 05 12:46 am Link just feel a bit sorry for those that don't see it, that's all : ( Aug 06 05 01:09 am Link I consider my profile to be ascerbic rather than arrogant. But, I have learned that the best way to control spam and keep the offers to do someone's headshots for free go down with my port being written like it is... Aug 06 05 01:18 am Link |
