moving pictures wrote:
And the "real-life women" comment?  Shessshhhh.  It's just an excuse to make over-weight women feel better about themselves.  Truth is, being overweight isn't attractive and no amount of "opening the minds of the fashion industry" is going to change it.  This was a PR stunt, that's all.  They happen every few months.

Comments like that one actually irritate the hell out of me.  I'm overweight....I've done runway work as a plus model.  I've worked as a standard model.  My size doesn't not reflect beauty or lack there of.  I understand what the average woman is saying.  Someone mentioned that you can be 5'10 and 120lbs and healthy.  Guess what you can also be 5'10 and 220 lbs and healthy.  That person hit the nail on the head with the statement about only a physician can determine healthy.  I've seen countless overweight women (and really, what are we basing overweight on anyway?) who are attractive and beautiful.  Then again, I'm a firm believer that everyone is beautiful.  Frankly, I wish the industry would show more models of VARIOUS sizes since the world is full of people from all shapes and sizes.

KCLynne wrote:
Comments like that one actually irritate the hell out of me.  I'm overweight....I've done runway work as a plus model.  I've worked as a standard model.  My size doesn't not reflect beauty or lack there of.  I understand what the average woman is saying.  Someone mentioned that you can be 5'10 and 120lbs and healthy.  Guess what you can also be 5'10 and 220 lbs and healthy.  That person hit the nail on the head with the statement about only a physician can determine healthy.  I've seen countless overweight women (and really, what are we basing overweight on anyway?) who are attractive and beautiful.  Then again, I'm a firm believer that everyone is beautiful.  Frankly, I wish the industry would show more models of VARIOUS sizes since the world is full of people from all shapes and sizes.

KC, I'm sorry you find my comments irritating.  That's not the intent.  Honestly is.

The runway work that you did and what the original article was referring are two separate worlds.  Likewise, playing pick-up basketball at the Y does not equate to the demands of being in the NBA.  It doesn't take a physician to say that overweightness is unhealthy as study after study demonstrated that carrying abundantly excessive weight (as the plus-size model did in the original article) is intrinsically unhealthy.  Similar point can be said about the lack of needing a doctor to point out a smoker's health risks.

IMHO, women who say it's okay to be overweight and everyone is beautiful not matter what the poundage, contribute to the obesity problem in America.  I know you'll hate reading that.  It's not PC.  But is what I see.  Words like yours may sooth egos in the short term, but these self-delusions lead to problems in the long term.  I'm originally from a country where it is socially unacceptable for young girls to be fat.  We have lots of problems there, but obesity is not among them

KCLynne wrote:
Comments like that one actually irritate the hell out of me.  I'm overweight....I've done runway work as a plus model.  I've worked as a standard model.  My size doesn't not reflect beauty or lack there of.  I understand what the average woman is saying.  Someone mentioned that you can be 5'10 and 120lbs and healthy.  Guess what you can also be 5'10 and 220 lbs and healthy.  That person hit the nail on the head with the statement about only a physician can determine healthy.  I've seen countless overweight women (and really, what are we basing overweight on anyway?) who are attractive and beautiful.  Then again, I'm a firm believer that everyone is beautiful.  Frankly, I wish the industry would show more models of VARIOUS sizes since the world is full of people from all shapes and sizes.

The industry isn't about reflecting reality, it's about promoting products as helping create an ideal. So, the problem isn't the industry, it's the consumer. You get society to want to look like a curvier lady, and there will be curvier models.

However, then, there won't be skinnier models. The whole spectrum of marketability would move. Having variety would be stupid for the whole purpose of the industry.

Damianne wrote:
The industry isn't about reflecting reality, it's about promoting products as helping create an ideal. So, the problem isn't the industry, it's the consumer. You get society to want to look like a curvier lady, and there will be curvier models.

However, then, there won't be skinnier models. The whole spectrum of marketability would move. Having variety would be stupid for the whole purpose of the industry.

I didn't say get rid of skinnier models.  Actually I stated the industry should show all shapes and sizes because that's what the rest of the world looks like.  I never said that all overweight women are healthy.  I never said all thin women are unhealthy.  To me weight shouldn't be an issue for ANY woman, and neither should self acceptance.   The issue I have is that through the media, society portrays thin beautiful women as the only way a woman can be accepted in society.   Degrading thin women who are beautiful models doesn't help, but neither does degrading overweight women.  All I'm saying is we are all diverse, and the industry should be to.  Why is that so hard?

KCLynne wrote:
I didn't say get rid of skinnier models.  Actually I stated the industry should show all shapes and sizes because that's what the rest of the world looks like.  I never said that all overweight women are healthy.  I never said all thin women are unhealthy.  To me weight shouldn't be an issue for ANY woman, and neither should self acceptance.   The issue I have is that through the media, society portrays thin beautiful women as the only way a woman can be accepted in society.  No wonder so many people have eating disorders are over weight.  I've been both sides of the spectrum.  Degrading thin women who are beautiful models doesn't help, but neither does degrading overweight women.  All I'm saying is we are all diverse, and the industry should be to.  Why is that so hard?

It's no hard.  It's just irrelevant.  Fashion is not about reality, nor about promoting social utopia.  It's solely and exclusively about selling dreams the public wants and those dreams are to be young, beautiful, and thin.

KCLynne wrote:

I didn't say get rid of skinnier models.  Actually I stated the industry should show all shapes and sizes because that's what the rest of the world looks like.  I never said that all overweight women are healthy.  I never said all thin women are unhealthy.  To me weight shouldn't be an issue for ANY woman, and neither should self acceptance.   The issue I have is that through the media, society portrays thin beautiful women as the only way a woman can be accepted in society.   Degrading thin women who are beautiful models doesn't help, but neither does degrading overweight women.  All I'm saying is we are all diverse, and the industry should be to.  Why is that so hard?

I don't think you read my post.

Damianne wrote:

I don't think you read my post.

Sorry, I went back and reread and realized I misconstrued what you said.  So ok, if the consumer calls the shots the thin models lose out, but the industry has been calling the shots and curvier women (until now) have been losing out.  There is no easy way around it to be honest.  It's a debate that will go on and on.  I still stick by my thoughts that for everyone to be happy, then the industry should be more diverse.  We have models of all ethnicities, why is it so hard to have models of all sizes without fighting over it?

Keri Atkins wrote:
Bah. All sized women are real women. Women, come in all shapes, sizes and heights. Some women are healthy being thinner, some women are healthy being larger. Your perfect weight and size is not my perfect weight and size...ect.

All women, of all sizes, need to have a place to go for fashion. All shapes and sizes need to be represented: that means size 00 models all the way through to the 20's.

As there are more women world wide that wear a size 4 through a size 14, you will see more spreads, articles, heck, fashion in general, catering to those sizes, using models that around those sizes. Its always about demand.

Just my thoughts,

Keri
www.modelfashion.info

++

KCLynne wrote:
Sorry, I went back and reread and realized I misconstrued what you said.  So ok, if the consumer calls the shots the thin models lose out, but the industry has been calling the shots and curvier women (until now) have been losing out.  There is no easy way around it to be honest.  It's a debate that will go on and on.  I still stick by my thoughts that for everyone to be happy, then the industry should be more diverse.  We have models of all ethnicities, why is it so hard to have models of all sizes without fighting over it?

Curvier models used to be in vogue. That's why Dean Johnson was so popular, she was a new trend.

Curvier models are only recently "losing out".
Not everyone gets to be a model, that's the point of models. Not everyone gets to be happy, that's stupid. It's the opposite of the purpose of a model.

The debate isn't really raging, this isn't really questioned off the internet. I'm more concerned about changing the way the industry's labor laws work, but you can keep raging until everyone gets to win and get a trophy in the industry based on exclusivity, if you'd like.

KCLynne wrote:

Sorry, I went back and reread and realized I misconstrued what you said.  So ok, if the consumer calls the shots the thin models lose out, but the industry has been calling the shots and curvier women (until now) have been losing out.  There is no easy way around it to be honest.  It's a debate that will go on and on.  I still stick by my thoughts that for everyone to be happy, then the industry should be more diverse.  We have models of all ethnicities, why is it so hard to have models of all sizes without fighting over it?

The consumer has always called the shots because at the end of the day, they are the ones buying the clothes. When the consumers stop responding to advertising featuring skinny models than the industry will change.

Scarlett Renee wrote:
Oh my god. America refuses to believe that they are getting fatter. Instead, it's everyone else fault.

Get off the damn couch. Love yourself. Stop worring about the girls in magazines who apparently aren't "REAL women." (what a load of hose sh!t)

Not everyone gets to play. That's the point. If models looked like "real women" supposedly do, they wouldn't be different and grab your attention. They wouldn't sell things and then why have models? People are moronic sometimes. *head desk*

I think one thing to consider though is thqt there are plenty of 'fuller'models out there that are anything but average. there's not a lot of average going on here



the industry is not as simple as people are stating it here. it's not simply about ''young, thin and beautiful''

Keri Atkins wrote:
Bah. All sized women are real women. Women, come in all shapes, sizes and heights. Some women are healthy being thinner, some women are healthy being larger. Your perfect weight and size is not my perfect weight and size...ect.

All women, of all sizes, need to have a place to go for fashion. All shapes and sizes need to be represented: that means size 00 models all the way through to the 20's.

As there are more women world wide that wear a size 4 through a size 14, you will see more spreads, articles, heck, fashion in general, catering to those sizes, using models that around those sizes. Its always about demand.

Just my thoughts,

Keri
www.modelfashion.info

Agreed. Not to mention that people can have unhealthy weights (on either side) due to more than eating disorders/ not working out/ etc... why is it OUR job to be all high and mighty and tell them they need to look differently?


Here's my ideal vs reality.

If it were an ideal world: I would hope that all sizes would be used, however, it would still be the "ideal" of those sizes, meaning the girls with proportionally longer legs, the girls with prettier faces, and the girls (especially on the bigger end) would look more in-shape than their same-sized non-models.

Reality: We use, generally, mainstream and plus models, or commercial models that may or may not be otherwise agency standard. When people go outside of these bounds, usually it's either with a girl "close enough" to make an exception, or a girl so different to make a splash (using a size 22 girl on a runway graced otherwise by only fashion-stat girls). Being that, it seems very unlikely that the average 5'5 and size 8-12 girls will get their chance in the spotlight.

ShivaKitty wrote:
A. I tend to regard everything on the FoxNews site with a high level of cynicism.

B. Women who are 5'10 and 120 pounds are "real women," just like everyone else.

C. Women can be 5'10 and 120 pounds, can be perfectly healthy. That's for a medical professional to decide, not random people looking at pictures.

D. Many people feel "butthurt" when they realize they do not fit idealized beauty standards. Instead of either learning to love their bodies, or working to make changes to themselves, they choose to bitch about the people who do fit those standards.

E. I tend to regard everything on the FoxNews site with a high level of cynicism.

+100.

I'm nowhere near 5' 10" but it's always bothered me when people refer to models as if we're objects or robots without feelings. We're real people too - sure there's some that have bad health habits but that doesn't mean we all do.