This thread was locked on 2012-05-15 08:19:29
Model
CRIMSON REIGN
Posts: 842
Baltimore, Maryland, US
Awwww dratz! I stumbled upon that mag and was hoping to someday be published in it. Oh well, hopefully everything works out for both sides.
Photographer
Thornton Harris
Posts: 1689
San Francisco, California, US
ShootBare wrote:
Can't even ask for a refund as the only answer you get from anyone is the thanks for your money note!!! Everything else bounces back!! So frustrating!! Don't try to deal with the vendor any more. Just file a claim with your credit card company.
Photographer
DLWoods Images
Posts: 186
Dallas, Texas, US
unbearable lightness wrote:
People have asked me to respond here. If you look around you at the recession and the general state of libraries and bookstores and publishers all over the world, you will realize that NUDE's distribution system went under. Barnes & Noble and Borders have downsized to almost nothing in print, and the U.S. postal service has cut delivery days and closed post offices all over the country.
One thing I know from working with Carrie Leigh. Not only is she a big talent but she is also a very intelligent woman. With her status in the publishing world, I wouldn't count NUDE down and out yet. When the time comes, she will definitely re-emerge. Many realize the contribution NUDE has made to fine art nude photography, realize the permanency of this unique and legendary print publication, and actually are grateful. I am. It has been a highlight of my life to know and work with the NUDE family. I can respect your relationship with Ms. Leigh and NUDE, but some of what you said is just not a good reason they could not get my subscription to me.
(1) The Barnes & Nobel in addition to the Borders in my area have WALLS of magazines. There is plenty of room for one more if it is sent to those stores.
(2) If NUDE's distribution system went under (had to be at least eighteen months ago) there has been enough time the get another.
(3) The postal system cut delivery days. That is true, but they did not completely STOP delivering mail. I know this, because I get mail almost every day. If NUDE were shipping I may not get my copy on the 1st or the 3rd or the 5th, but I should at least have it by 15th . . .
(4) And I think this is the one that most improtant. NUDE's web page is still up AND it is still accepting funds for (a) Subscriptions, (b) New and Back Issues, (c) Collectable Boxed Editions and (d) Apparel. No where on the page does is say they are temporarly out of business and it's not likely you will recieve your merchandise.
It's a same that a lady with the reputation of Carrie Leigh would allow this to continue.
- David Lee Woods
Photographer
DLWoods Images
Posts: 186
Dallas, Texas, US
Supermodel Photographer wrote:
Yes, and so does Google:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe … 9hnSJW9rTk "Supermodel Photographer" it doesn't appear you read the tread before posting.
Although it has a lovely web site and will collect your money for it's products, according to everyone who posted before you (including me) no one has recieved their copies of NUDE that we have paid long time ago.
It appears NUDE has not been published in about two years . . .
- David Lee Woods
Photographer
John Horwitz
Posts: 2920
Raleigh, North Carolina, US
George Santo Pietro ( George Pietro Santos ) did it with COQ Magazine - he was run out of New York...then Foxy Lady Magazine - in Chicago, where he was run out of town again, then he married Vanna White - sooooo has been publishers will rise again! How long can you wait?
Photographer
provoculos
Posts: 20
Owings Mills, Maryland, US
Looknsee Photography wrote:
Lots of folks have tried starting up a magazine featuring nude photography -- Jeff Dumas' "Collection" comes to mind.
These magazines have a higher failure rate than "G" or "PG" magazines, but fewer advertisers are willing to place ads in a "R" rated mag.
They all fail, and when they do, there often isn't enough money to inform the subscribers, let alone refund any money. Bankrupt is bankrupt -- it is likely that no one gets a refund.
Photographer
provoculos
Posts: 20
Owings Mills, Maryland, US
ShootBare wrote:
I get that and if things are so bad that they are bankrupt - I certainly wouldn't think they'd be worried about reimbursing for back issues, but I just subscribed YESTERDAY! How are they still to this day taking people's money!! Outright THEFT!!!
Photographer
provoculos
Posts: 20
Owings Mills, Maryland, US
DLWoods Images wrote:
I can respect your relationship with Ms. Leigh and NUDE, but some of what you said is just not a good reason they could not get my subscription to me.
(1) The Barnes & Nobel in addition to the Borders in my area have WALLS of magazines. There is plenty of room for one more if it is sent to those stores.
(2) If NUDE's distribution system went under (had to be at least eighteen months ago) there has been enough time the get another.
(3) The postal system cut delivery days. That is true, but they did not completely STOP delivering mail. I know this, because I get mail almost every day. If NUDE were shipping I may not get my copy on the 1st or the 3rd or the 5th, but I should at least have it by 15th . . .
(4) And I think this is the one that most improtant. NUDE's web page is still up AND it is still accepting funds for (a) Subscriptions, (b) New and Back Issues, (c) Collectable Boxed Editions and (d) Apparel. No where on the page does is say they are temporarly out of business and it's not likely you will recieve your merchandise.
It's a same that a lady with the reputation of Carrie Leigh would allow this to continue.
- David Lee Woods #4 is exactly my point! I'm glad someone else gets it!!!
Photographer
JM Dean
Posts: 8931
Cary, North Carolina, US
Selling through PayPal. Contact them and have their account suspended.
Photographer
provoculos
Posts: 20
Owings Mills, Maryland, US
well that's a joke...just spent 20 minutes trying to get through to PayPal...when I did, the rep barely spoke English and couldn't help me unless I gave her my credit card number. I told her that I would call my credit card to cancel the transaction and that PayPal is obviously okay with taking $$ from through a fraudulent company. She said "great, have I answered all of your questions to your satisfaction today?" Nobody give a shit!!!!!
Photographer
Maxximages
Posts: 2478
Los Angeles, California, US
I'm in the same boat subscribed last year, 2 copies of a back issue. Pretty sad if Ms. Lee is still taking money for something that not existed for at least a year.
BTW I get mail 6 days a week except Holidays, I believe Ms Lee is based in West Lake Village/Thousand Oaks a fairly affluent neighborhood, not that far from me so not sure what post office closed out there.
Photographer
R Michael Walker
Posts: 11987
Costa Mesa, California, US
ShootBare wrote:
I get that and if things are so bad that they are bankrupt - I certainly wouldn't think they'd be worried about reimbursing for back issues, but I just subscribed YESTERDAY! How are they still to this day taking people's money!! Outright THEFT!!! Just file a dispute with PayPal. If what you say is true they will refund your $$.
Photographer
John Horwitz
Posts: 2920
Raleigh, North Carolina, US
Photographer
howard r
Posts: 527
Los Angeles, California, US
no surprise or shame in going under in this economy. one could even argue things were not her fault.
but there is a classy way to face up to the people you (even inadvertently) let down - which always remains under your control.
sounds like carrie is maybe coming up a little short in that area.
update: if the below message from carrie is true, and if she follows through, that would definitely be a step in the right direction.
Photographer
John Horwitz
Posts: 2920
Raleigh, North Carolina, US
Keeping the money is just another sick symptom of the 'entitled people'. These are the self-same ones who think nothing of selling your work on their personal website ( without your permission or knowledge ) for $ 14.95 when you have it in a gallery for $ 800.00! Funny thing is they can't understand why you are pissed with them - really they can't.
Probably a good thing I don't hold a grudge ( LOL )
Photographer
curtis wood
Posts: 1307
Logan, Utah, US
-they got my money years ago.
-still waiting for my first copy.
Photographer
Stephen Thorne
Posts: 520
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Here is an announcement from Carrie Leigh, also on the Publisher's Page of the website:
"With a saddened heart I have to announce the closure of NUDE magazine as a quarterly publication.
"As everybody knows, we are not advertising driven and have always relied on a tremendous sell-through rate in the major bookstores. The average magazine’s sell-through is 30% and we were always 60-80%. Now Borders has liquidated and Barnes & Noble has dramatically downsized its stores and distribution outlets around the world. As a publication dependent upon high sell-through numbers, this created a huge distribution problem.
"Anyone who has seen a copy of NUDE knows we used the highest quality printing press utilizing plates and petroleum-based ink. Sadly, the $2.6 million printing press our printer used has lain dormant for the past year. I delayed this announcement as we sought alternative printing methods but to no avail. It is simply unaffordable in today’s world.
"Over the course of the next few months, our accountants will review any outstanding orders and give compensation where due.
"I want to thank everyone who has supported NUDE, including those who have been our friends since the first issue in Fall 2007."
Photographer
John Horwitz
Posts: 2920
Raleigh, North Carolina, US
Photographer
Farenell Photography
Posts: 18832
Albany, New York, US
ShootBare wrote:
I get that and if things are so bad that they are bankrupt - I certainly wouldn't think they'd be worried about reimbursing for back issues, but I just subscribed YESTERDAY! How are they still to this day taking people's money!! Outright THEFT!!! Well, if you just subscribed yesterday, is it not logical to think that your transaction has yet to be processed?
Not everything is a conspiracy in this world.
Photographer
DLWoods Images
Posts: 186
Dallas, Texas, US
Stephen Thorne wrote:
Here is an announcement from Carrie Leigh, also on the Publisher's Page of the website:
"With a saddened heart I have to announce the closure of NUDE magazine as a quarterly publication.
"As everybody knows, we are not advertising driven and have always relied on a tremendous sell-through rate in the major bookstores. The average magazine’s sell-through is 30% and we were always 60-80%. Now Borders has liquidated and Barnes & Noble has dramatically downsized its stores and distribution outlets around the world. As a publication dependent upon high sell-through numbers, this created a huge distribution problem.
"Anyone who has seen a copy of NUDE knows we used the highest quality printing press utilizing plates and petroleum-based ink. Sadly, the $2.6 million printing press our printer used has lain dormant for the past year. I delayed this announcement as we sought alternative printing methods but to no avail. It is simply unaffordable in today’s world.
"Over the course of the next few months, our accountants will review any outstanding orders and give compensation where due.
"I want to thank everyone who has supported NUDE, including those who have been our friends since the first issue in Fall 2007." A couple of things that still do not make sense.
(1) I would like to know when this statement was posted to the site. The date/year at the bottom of this statement is 2008. My guess is that's just the copyright date.
(2) If their statement ("Over the course of the next few months, our accountants will review any outstanding orders and give compensation where due.") is truly sincere, WHY IS THE SITE STILL ACCEPTING PEOPLE'S MONEY FOR MAGAZINE'S THEY KNOW THEY WILL NOT SEND? One poster in this thread said they subscribed YESTERDAY and it "took" their money. It accepted his/her money knowing the had ceased publication and would NOT be sending that customer a single issue.
(3) It's been two years since I subscribed. Just how long does it take their accountants to "review any outstanding orders and give compensation where due?"
(4) And again, THE most important aspect of this issue is they know they are out of business . . .
They know they are NOT publishing NUDE . . .
They know they are NOT distributing NUDE to any customers . . .
Yet they are STILL TAKING (and I do mean "TAKING") people's money . . .
- David Lee Woods
Photographer
Stephen Thorne
Posts: 520
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
My understanding is that that was just posted yesterday and instead of running and hiding they have initiated concrete steps to address complaints.
Photographer
John Horwitz
Posts: 2920
Raleigh, North Carolina, US
Bread & Circus - let's see how fast you get a refund, are you now holding your breath?
If you really believe that rubbish I have a bridge you want/need to buy! God, that's rich!
Photographer
DLWoods Images
Posts: 186
Dallas, Texas, US
Stephen Thorne wrote:
My understanding is that that was just posted yesterday and instead of running and hiding they have initiated concrete steps to address complaints. I'll accept that...
And I'll continue to do what I've done for the past eighteen to twenty-four months...
Wait...
I do have a question what took so long?
(I'm also wondering did yesterday's posting have anything remotely to do with this Model Mayhem thread...)
- David Lee Woods
Artist/Painter
Art of Vincent Wolff
Posts: 2925
Wheaton, Illinois, US
Stephen Thorne wrote:
My understanding is that that was just posted yesterday and instead of running and hiding they have initiated concrete steps to address complaints. Sad to see NUDE go...Carrie was the first to publish my art, and I enjoyed my relationship with them. I saw the release today on the publisher page. And they have suspended taking subscriptions.
The whole print industry as we know it is changing really fast. This was a quality publication, and printed some beautiful art nudes. More of a coffee table book than a magazine.
Photographer
Farenell Photography
Posts: 18832
Albany, New York, US
John Horwitz wrote:
Bread & Circus - let's see how fast you get a refund, are you now holding your breath?
If you really believe that rubbish I have a bridge you want/need to buy! God, that's rich! Somehow I think they could bring about world peace & you'd be pissed that they put the Military Industrial Complex out of business.
Photographer
John Horwitz
Posts: 2920
Raleigh, North Carolina, US
I do have a question what took so long?
(I'm also wondering did yesterday's posting have anything remotely to do with this Model Mayhem thread...)
- David Lee Woods The thread was read by an ex-managing editor...just a guess
@Farenell Photography, you have something against the MIC?
Photographer
A_Nova_Photography
Posts: 8652
Winston-Salem, North Carolina, US
It's funny that there was no activity on their official blog until yesterday. http://joeladamsart.blogspot.com/ It's sad to see it go, but if they were paying the bills through book store sales and book stores closing I guess it's hard to sell enough to pay the bills.
Photographer
John Horwitz
Posts: 2920
Raleigh, North Carolina, US
ACPhotography wrote:
It's funny that there was no activity on their official blog until yesterday. OOPSIE
Artist/Painter
Joel Adams
Posts: 58
Burbank, California, US
DLWoods Images wrote:
A couple of things that still do not make sense.
(1) I would like to know when this statement was posted to the site. The date/year at the bottom of this statement is 2008. My guess is that's just the copyright date.
(2) If their statement ("Over the course of the next few months, our accountants will review any outstanding orders and give compensation where due.") is truly sincere, WHY IS THE SITE STILL ACCEPTING PEOPLE'S MONEY FOR MAGAZINE'S THEY KNOW THEY WILL NOT SEND? One poster in this thread said they subscribed YESTERDAY and it "took" their money. It accepted his/her money knowing the had ceased publication and would NOT be sending that customer a single issue.
(3) It's been two years since I subscribed. Just how long does it take their accountants to "review any outstanding orders and give compensation where due?"
(4) And again, THE most important aspect of this issue is they know they are out of business . . .
They know they are NOT publishing NUDE . . .
They know they are NOT distributing NUDE to any customers . . .
Yet they are STILL TAKING (and I do mean "TAKING") people's money . . .
- David Lee Woods 1) The date at the bottom is the copyright date of the website
2) The site is no longer taking subscriptions.. Maybe you didnt get that far after you read the statement.
3) I have no info, but my every experience with Carrie Leigh and NUDE Magazine tells me they are 'not' thieves and a compensation will be made. The decision to stop publishing is a very recent decision...
4) see 2
Photographer
John Horwitz
Posts: 2920
Raleigh, North Carolina, US
Re: #3 sentence 2..
"Sadly, the $2.6 million printing press our printer used has lain dormant for the past year."
well, not SO recent. Remember - "He who sells what isn't hissn..."
Photographer
Maxximages
Posts: 2478
Los Angeles, California, US
Joel Adams wrote:
1) The date at the bottom is the copyright date of the website
2) The site is no longer taking subscriptions.. Maybe you didnt get that far after you read the statement.
3) I have no info, but my every experience with Carrie Leigh and NUDE Magazine tells me they are 'not' thieves and a compensation will be made. The decision to stop publishing is a very recent decision...
4) see 2 Sorry, but what would you call taking money for something that has not existed for over a year if not thievery??
Photographer
Greg Easton Photography
Posts: 1082
Providence, Rhode Island, US
Sounds to me like somebody filed a mail fraud claim with the FTC (see prior page) and the FTC sent them a very pleasant (incredibly foreboding and threatening in that way that only the American Government can be) letter asking (demanding) that they address the issue (or be charged with a crime).
Photographer
John Horwitz
Posts: 2920
Raleigh, North Carolina, US
Sorry, but what would you call taking money for something that has not existed for over a year if not thievery?? You can call it Deception, a Felony, Fraud, Unsound Business Practice. Makes me wonder why someone would want to stick up for Carrie Leigh...unless ?
Blaming the Post Office or the printer for your failure is pure sophistry, I'm not sure anyone here buys that save one.
If anyone has information as to the whereabouts of the money, it would be an interesting read - yes?
Photographer
John Fisher
Posts: 2165
Miami Beach, Florida, US
Two things that photographers do that always runs the ship into the reef, build their big perfect studio (that EVERYONE will want to rent), and start their own magazine. Hearing the song of the Sirens, we just can't stop ourselves no matter how many bleached bones we see on the beach ahead. RIP NUDE Magazine, you will have good company in the land of lost magazine adventures. John -- John Fisher 900 West Avenue, Suite 633 Miami Beach, Florida 33139 305 534-9322 http://www.johnfisher.com
Photographer
Maxximages
Posts: 2478
Los Angeles, California, US
Greg Easton Photography wrote:
Sounds to me like somebody filed a mail fraud claim with the FTC (see prior page) and the FTC sent them a very pleasant (incredibly foreboding and threatening in that way that only the American Government can be) letter asking (demanding) that they address the issue (or be charged with a crime). I hope so she has been collecting subscription money for 1-2 years without providing a product, unless you subscribed for back issues.
Photographer
John Horwitz
Posts: 2920
Raleigh, North Carolina, US
To be fair ( and we should be ) shall we summon Carrie Leigh to respond? I'm sure her friend on this site can get a message to her so she can answer all our questions.
Artist/Painter
Joel Adams
Posts: 58
Burbank, California, US
Post hidden on Apr 28, 2012 02:51 pm Reason: violates rules Comments: Harassment, bullying, personal attacks and other boorish behavior are not tolerated.
Personal threats are not permitted either.
Photographer
John Horwitz
Posts: 2920
Raleigh, North Carolina, US
Post hidden on Apr 28, 2012 02:38 pm
Reason: not helpful
Artist/Painter
Joel Adams
Posts: 58
Burbank, California, US
Post hidden on Apr 28, 2012 02:38 pm
Reason: not helpful
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