Lizzy Borden wrote:

in that highly unlikely circumstance...well, i wouldn't have to worry about a nude photo ruining my career aspects...i also worry about offending family/friends, but i guess for that kind of money i could be like, "well if you don't like it then i guess i don't need to lend you money"

but for reasonable compensation, sadly no, wouldn't outweigh the possible risks (in my mind)

Thank you for replying to this thread.  Your profile states "No" to nudity, yet you are alright with implied and topless (under the right circumstances of course) which to me means that you are ok with limited nudity (nipples showing is nudity.)  Therefore your profile is a prime example of why models and photographers need to be clear in communication on limitations.  Now I understand what your limits are.  It's not as clear cut as "Yes" or "No!"

photoimager wrote:
If someone is saying no, why should it be acceptable to try and bribe them to agree ?

I couldn't agree more. Trying to "convince" models into posing nude reeks of GWC.

To all you persistent types: When a woman says NO to groping while a tongue is being shoved down her throat, do you think pulling out the wallet and offering her money will change her mind? I seriously doubt it. If you think otherwise then I suggest seeking help.

hereticchick wrote:
So I finally changed my profile to "Yes" for nudes. I have shot nude; I will shoot nude.

I won't do every nude shoot offered to me, but I think stating that in the first paragraph of my profile that "I do nude work on a case-by-case basis" clears up any potential for confusion. But maybe it's not even necessary to say that. When you get right down to it, everyone does shoots on a case-by-case basis, don't they?

Thank you for your reply to this thread.  I wonder if another answer to the question of nudity should be "Negotiable" as it is clear that the answer is not always carved in stone.  That would allow for discussion of things like "I will do nudes for pay only, no TFP nudes" or "I will do topless, and implied, but frontal lower body" or "I will consider selective nude projects!"   Just because a model has "yes" doesn't mean she or he is open to everything nude, and just because a model has "No" to nudes ... well you get the idea of why I thought to post this for discussion in the first place! 

Patrick Walberg wrote:

Thank you for your reply to this thread.  I wonder if another answer to the question of nudity should be "Negotiable" as it is clear that the answer is not always carved in stone.  That would allow for discussion of things like "I will do nudes for pay only, no TFP nudes" or "I will do topless, and implied, but frontal lower body" or "I will consider selective nude projects!"   Just because a model has "yes" doesn't mean she or he is open to everything nude, and just because a model has "No" to nudes ... well you get the idea of why I thought to post this for discussion in the first place! 

I am wondering why there needs to be more than a yes or no answer to shooting nudes.

It's just another genre. For instance, swimwear: "I only do one pieces", "I only shoot bikinis with some selected photographers" "Full scope bottoms only" "I only shoot thongs for pay".

Really?

You are discussing the shooting and negotiating the terms any ways. I just hate seeing those tags, because I read the About me section to gauge the type of person I might be interested in working with. Those tags scream "Pain in the arse" to me, and I generally pass on the model and go on to the next one.

shooterfoto wrote:
The OP did not say anything about bribing models to shoot nude. It was a question about common understanding.

I have had models to arrive and say that they don't shoot nude before they get in the door good. No matter to me, but those are the ones that seem to get naked in front of the camera within the first fifteen minutes.

Now models that I find that are serious about not doing nudes don't even speak about it. There are no quotes like "I will not shoot nude, so don't even ask or I will block you". They check the box. You know the one that reads Shoot nudes. They check "No". There are no silliness about it. You know those models when they arrive. They arrive on time (five to ten minutes early). They have the gear they need for the shoot. They communicate very well, follow directions according to the shoot parameters without question, and you are left feeling lucky that you had the opportunity to work with them. They do not talk about nudes, and you'll feel that it would be disrespectful to even say the word nude in front of them.

Thank you very much!  You understand how this could become a thread on Modelmayhem when a couple photographers get together and speculate over a models profile.  The reality is rather than speculate, we know that it is the models here that can provide the answer.  There are a few photographers posting in this thread as if they are some sort of white knight challenging me for even posting such a question.  I posted this in the "Model Colloquy" section for the reason that I want to hear models input on this question that many photographers might have when they see a profile that a simple "Yes" or "No" is confusing or does not make it clear as to their limits. 

For those photographers who are "white knighting" on this thread, I am not trying to persuade models to shoot nude!  Even though this question is meant for models, it seems quite a few more photographers than models have chimed in!   It's sad when photographers try to put their own opinion before the models in regards to a question of models comfort zone, money and nudity.

erica jay wrote:
Hire the ones who are comfortable with it! Simple!

+1

erica jay wrote:
Hire the ones who are comfortable with it! Simple!

You are very comfortable with it!  So it is simple for you.

john_ellis wrote:
I haven't read much past the first two pages, but it seems that MM needs a few more options when replying to that question.  Clearly the Yes/No isn't the way to go.  They could add in "Depends on Assignment," "Topless only," "Butt only"...  never mind... fuck it, they should just have a checklist.  I think that would make it easiest instead of a crapload of pull down options (um, no pun intended).

Does stuff like that get changed, or is it one of those, "Uh, we made it like that so we'll hafta live with it" sort of situations?

I'm working on a set of examples of the various limits I've encountered.  There are about 20 different versions of "nude", and I don't do glamour or porn. 

That would be a BIG checklist.

Patrick Walberg wrote:

Thank you very much!  You understand how this could become a thread on Modelmayhem when a couple photographers get together and speculate over a models profile.  The reality is rather than speculate, we know that it is the models here that can provide the answer.  There are a few photographers posting in this thread as if they are some sort of white knight challenging me for even posting such a question.  I posted this in the "Model Colloquy" section for the reason that I want to hear models input on this question that many photographers might have when they see a profile that a simple "Yes" or "No" is confusing or does not make it clear as to their limits. 

For those photographers who are "white knighting" on this thread, I am not trying to persuade models to shoot nude!  Even though this question is meant for models, it seems quite a few more photographers than models have chimed in!   It's sad when photographers try to put their own opinion before the models in regards to a question of models comfort zone, money and nudity.

White Knights??? I call them Captain Saveahoe

Each model do decide for his/her self if they will shoot nude with a photographer. I like your question, and even though I am a bit opinionated. I would really love to see model responses.

shooterfoto wrote:
I am wondering why there needs to be more than a yes or no answer to shooting nudes.

It's just another genre. For instance, swimwear: "I only do one pieces", "I only shoot bikinis with some selected photographers" "Full scope bottoms only" "I only shoot thongs for pay".

Really?

You are discussing the shooting and negotiating the terms any ways. I just hate seeing those tags, because I read the About me section to gauge the type of person I might be interested in working with. Those tags scream "Pain in the arse" to me, and I generally pass on the model and go on to the next one.

The fact that this thread keeps going makes me think that you are wrong.  At the very least, a "Negotiable" choice with the "Yes" and "No" choices would be helpful when it comes to nudity.  We are not discussing different cut bikinis vs swimwear here.  Give models a chance to weigh in on this thread ... it's their section!

Patrick Walberg wrote:

Thank you for replying to this thread.  Your profile states "No" to nudity, yet you are alright with implied and topless (under the right circumstances of course) which to me means that you are ok with limited nudity (nipples showing is nudity.)  Therefore your profile is a prime example of why models and photographers need to be clear in communication on limitations.  Now I understand what your limits are.  It's not as clear cut as "Yes" or "No!"

meh. more succinctly put, i will consider topless, but not full-nude, or even "bottom-less."

Art of the nude wrote:
I'm working on a set of examples of the various limits I've encountered.  There are about 20 different versions of "nude", and I don't do glamour or porn. 

That would be a BIG checklist.

Yeah, you have a good point.  I think it could probably be narrowed down to three areas of nudity:  Butt, Chest, and "No-No spot."

robert b mitchell wrote:
GIVE THIS SUBJECT A REST. BORING!!!!!!!!!!!! You people have nudes on the brain!!!!!

There are PUH-LENTY of threads that I find boring or stupid.

I just stop reading them and move on to another instead of worrying about whether or not others are participating in it. 

Take a cue from Fight Club:

"Fights Conversations will go on for as long as they have to." 

Relax a bit, man and enjoy the day.

Piombino Imaging wrote:
There is absolutely nothing harmful about nudity in and of itself.  It's what society says about nudity that creates the problem.  I've heard the naturist communities/organizations are trying to promote positive/healthy nudity - only to find they get the wrong kind of publicity.  For more on this, see http://www.bayareanaturists.org/

We were all born naked, and if we were all raised naked and openly participated in a nudist society, no one would have any hangups about nudity.  What would this do to the nude photography business?  Probably very little, as I'm sure all models would still have different prices for posing nude.

Just my $.02

Interesting point here.. and quite honestly we already have a "case study" we can use..

The men and women in Africa walk around naked to half naked everywhere... You don't see the men walking around with boners because their women are nude..

But you will always have the teen that has been "protected" their whole life hiding a National Geographic under their bed.

I truly believe if you raise your kid in nudity from birth.. they will learn that nudity isn't sexual...

It's the OOOBER Right that feel nudity is a sin and should be hidden from our children's eyes at all cost.

Patrick Walberg wrote:
If you are a model who doesn't do nudes, is this non negotiable or ... do you have a price?   The details of this question would be if a photographer of the quality that you admire were to offer you any amount of money (within reason), is there a dollar amount that would get you to change your mind? 

The reason for this question is that another photographer and I were discussing if models were absolutely "non-negotiable" on nudity or if there are some that could be persuaded with the right amount of money?

Some say "Will go nude ONLY for Playboy" for example.  If you are absolutely "non-negotiable" could you please elaborate on why?  I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, I'm curious to learn more about just how negotiable some models are. Discuss!

To me, and I am still pretty green in modelling, this is semi-negotiable but definitely for a price, that I don't think anyone is willing to pay me of all people.  I have been legal for half a year, I don't think I need to jump out of my clothes right away.  In my profile it says it'd have to be a pretty amazing concept, and I mean literally AMAZING. It'd have to be something so crazy new and just absolutely great, and then if someone came up with something like that, they're most certainly not going to find ME for it.

I've yet to be pressured into anything involving nudes, and I am a very adamant person, but I feel like if the offer came up and I knew the everything about the shoot, there'd be a price for me.  I can't put a number on it, but my self respect years down the road if I don't stick with modelling will be far more important than a couple hundred bucks now.  I know you should never regret the decisions you make, because at the time it's what you wanted, but to ME, that does not apply in this situation.

Harley Spencer wrote:
Everyone has a price. You just have to find that price.

Do you really think a model would refuse a nude shoot for 1 billion dollars? Highly unlikely. It's a high price, but it's a price.

There is a price for everyone, for everything.

This is all pretty subjective if the cold hard cash isn't there.

People love plucking imaginary figures out of the air, very few people have the cash to back up their question, so most people's answers are null and void.

Patrick Walberg wrote:

It is a gray area.  As there are models who say they will do nudes, but it's something that must be negotiated before the shoot.

No it's not a grey area. Some models will pose nude with one photographer but not every photographer. And just because a model poses nude with one photographer doesn't mean she will pose nude with another. Just because a model says she wants to pose nude, doesn't mean she wants to with you

LitaKita wrote:
To me, and I am still pretty green in modelling, this is semi-negotiable but definitely for a price, that I don't think anyone is willing to pay me of all people.  I have been legal for half a year, I don't think I need to jump out of my clothes right away.  In my profile it says it'd have to be a pretty amazing concept, and I mean literally AMAZING. It'd have to be something so crazy new and just absolutely great, and then if someone came up with something like that, they're most certainly not going to find ME for it.

I've yet to be pressured into anything involving nudes, and I am a very adamant person, but I feel like if the offer came up and I knew the everything about the shoot, there'd be a price for me.  I can't put a number on it, but my self respect years down the road if I don't stick with modelling will be far more important than a couple hundred bucks now.  I know you should never regret the decisions you make, because at the time it's what you wanted, but to ME, that does not apply in this situation.

I suspect that if you ever chose to shoot nude, basing it on loving the concept and the photographer's work would make you less likely to regret it later than any rational amount of pay.

I was talking with this yesterday with a "no nudes" model, and if you're talking about something silly like $100 million, that's one thing.  But in 10 years, a beautiful picture will still be around (in the good, and bad, sense).  Even $1,000 will be long gone.

erica jay wrote:
Hire the ones who are comfortable with it! Simple!

You missed the point.  It is hard to tell who is comfortable with it.  Photographers don't want to get labeled as a "creeper or perve" just because they clarified, nor do they want to miss the opportunity to make the images.

On a practical level, I don't want to "hope the model will be comfortable" sometime during a shoot to be nude, if nudes are the goal of the shoot.  I want it clearly stated in their profile and addressed before the shoot so there are no surprises and no pressure.  It isn't my job to "convince" a model to pose nude.

MUSE Studio wrote:

No it's not a grey area. Some models will pose nude with one photographer but not every photographer. And just because a model poses nude with one photographer doesn't mean she will pose nude with another. Just because a model says she wants to pose nude, doesn't mean she wants to with you

With all due respect, that is a gray area.  Look at it this way.  A model models.  A nude model, models nude.  If we take this to one extreme of adult actresses, while they may have genres, like BB, BG, GG, GB, etc, they still take of their clothes and get intimate for the agreed upon price.  Otherwise they don't work.  There isn't time to futz around.

So my recommendation, as I can "make" anyone do anything and I wouldn't want to, is for models who are comfortable shooting nudes to check the YES box and in the body of the profile delineate their range terms, I. E. Topless only, Full Nudity, Erotic, or Adult

Innovative Imagery wrote:
So my recommendation, as I can "make" anyone do anything and I wouldn't want to, is for models who are comfortable shooting nudes to check the YES box and in the body of the profile delineate their range terms, I. E. Topless only, Full Nudity, Erotic, or Adult

The "range" may not depend on such factors.

I shot with one model who literally refuses to wear clothing, but wants nothing to do with being portrayed as "sexy."

Other models may choose to shoot with me, or not, based on the quality of my work and the specific styles.  Same with any other photographer.  It's not always about skin, or money.

MUSE Studio wrote:

No it's not a grey area. Some models will pose nude with one photographer but not every photographer. And just because a model poses nude with one photographer doesn't mean she will pose nude with another. Just because a model says she wants to pose nude, doesn't mean she wants to with you

I reread your post and went "Huh??"  I don't even know what you mean by that.  Can you clarify?   By the way, this thread is really meant for the models.

LitaKita wrote:

To me, and I am still pretty green in modelling, this is semi-negotiable but definitely for a price, that I don't think anyone is willing to pay me of all people.  I have been legal for half a year, I don't think I need to jump out of my clothes right away.  In my profile it says it'd have to be a pretty amazing concept, and I mean literally AMAZING. It'd have to be something so crazy new and just absolutely great, and then if someone came up with something like that, they're most certainly not going to find ME for it.

I've yet to be pressured into anything involving nudes, and I am a very adamant person, but I feel like if the offer came up and I knew the everything about the shoot, there'd be a price for me.  I can't put a number on it, but my self respect years down the road if I don't stick with modelling will be far more important than a couple hundred bucks now.  I know you should never regret the decisions you make, because at the time it's what you wanted, but to ME, that does not apply in this situation.

I think you're smart!  You call it "semi-negotiable" and you have your limits in mind.  I appreciate your post.  Thank you!

robert b mitchell wrote:
GIVE THIS SUBJECT A REST. BORING!!!!!!!!!!!! You people have nudes on the brain!!!!!

+1 I thought this thread finally died a few days ago and some necromancer drags this shit up again...

Erin Dawson Photography wrote:
I agree that's it's not really a gray area. When I used to model I said No Nudes. Some of my LISTS had nudes but it was more the technique of the photo, accesories, PP or some other thing I liked. 
I did do implied but that was always when it was my idea and I sprung it on the photographer.

Now as a photographer I am very respectful of each model's comfort level.  What's the point of pushing & offering money if the model truly isn't comfortable? You'll get crappy awkward pics.

And even if she has implieds or sheer in her port, I'll still ask her comfort level because she may only do them with certain photographers she trusts.

Anyway I have my own boobs I can photograph for free.

We all have our limits and a simple "Yes" or "No" check off on a box does not clarify those limits.   So that is why I called it a gray area.

Phoenix Loh wrote:
Btw a photographer tried to convince me to shoot nude;
After I declined, he yelled @ me saying that I 'm not professional because I not dare to let photographer to see my naked body & better quit modelling;
Also, he tried to threaten me with my godsis 's nude pic taken by him.

That is very low. Almost criminal.  Doing nudes has to be a thing of confidence in each other.

I have shot nudes that will never be published or shared unless the model says they want to. It's just like that with me. And, I also have respect for those who don't want to do nudes. Yet whatever you do , do it well and with conviction, and everyone will win.

Shame on that disgusting photographer!

Phoenix Loh wrote:
Non-negotiable. No means no.
I 'd stated it in my profile.
Reasons:
1st, I just feel not comfortable when people seeing me naked;
2nd, my career & religious;
3rd, my bf doesn't like as well.

Btw a photographer tried to convince me to shoot nude;
After I declined, he yelled @ me saying that I 'm not professional because I not dare to let photographer to see my naked body & better quit modelling;
Also, he tried to threaten me with my godsis 's nude pic taken by him.

So I suggest OP just search the models who do nudes;
Instead of negotiating or convincing.
Less hassle.

sorry to hear that. nobody can force you.
please post his name online, that will be a good warning for other models who are not as strong as you. Naked pictures, no matter how pretty they are, can be very damaging for someone. Photographers should be responsible and my opinion is that, you should protect yourself first and by default if you are not sure of it.

TheLittleG Photography wrote:
i find it interesting how there are models that put on there profile that they will NOT shoot nudes, not just on the left hand side but spell it out in there "About Me" section then when you look at some of there "lists" they will have a list of shoots i want to recreate or something to that effect and when you look at that there are nude poses in the list???

so do they want to shoot nude or not? confusing

I've encountered some who contacted me that were similar to this.  Their profile is tagged as no and they say no to nudes so I didn't ask.  They then tell me they have a list with things they want to try so I look through and start diving deeper regarding the better ideas.  A lot of the items in the list had nudity and apparently the model's intention was to somehow "do it clothed" but they had no idea how and with a lot of the shots it just wouldn't make sense.  Even for the non-nudes in the list they were vague about how the concept interested them.  Wasn't worth the trouble making sense of their not making sense so I moved on, they didn't really offer me anything worth the trouble anyway.

Anyway, to the topic at hand.  Some do, some don't, some might if they like you/your work enough.  If you really want to do something with them it never hurts to ask but if they say no, move on.  Explore other opportunities or find other models who will work on the projects that interest you.