Through My Eyes 2011 wrote:
Does this mean that if I book a model for TF and the day before or hours before our shoot, she gets offered a paid job that it takes priority over ours and that I was warned ahead of time so I just should deal with it? Or if model is offered a TF shoot she will wait (reasonable time frame) to see if a paid job pops up before accepting and committing to the TF? Or are there other options?

Yes, the other option is she just stands you up, and if you ever run into her later, she blows it off, with no apology, because, 'the other job was paid."

Never mind how far in advance it was planned, or how many other people were involved, or if it was for a tearsheet, or with another model who was really looking forward to the shoot.

If you do get advance warning that she's not going to show, consider yourself blessed.

Neil Snape wrote:
Yep paid jobs always bump TF, in any direction. Can be model gets a job, photographer, mu/h stylist. Always have plan B.

At least with agency girls the agency supplies you with a second option.

If it's an agency, I can understand, but I basically think it's crap that, once a commitment is made, someone's still looking for better offers.

Say I book a shoot for a Saturday, agreeing to pay the model $200 for some amount of time.  BOTH of these are unprofessional, in my opinion.

** She cancels, because someone is willing to pay her $300.

** I cancel, because someone's willing to do the shoot for $100.

Making it trade changes nothing.  Now, if I have a trade shoot, and someone wants to hire me for $3000 for the day, I'm going to take it.  And, I'll give the model something for her losing out on the opportunity.

People who have full time jobs in other fields and lack total control of their schedule is a different matter.  Sometimes that can't be helped.

The Trousseau wrote:
To me, it means, "move on, there is nothing to see here." 

A commitment is a commitment. I'd rather work with someone who values that.

+1

Once I put you on my calender, the time slot is yours. Everyone else can find another day if they suddenly need me so bad.

That said, if someone wants to change a date or time and it's just the two of us shooting, I can live with that. There's nothing wrong with asking.

Neil Snape wrote:
Yep paid jobs always bump TF, in any direction. Can be model gets a job, photographer, mu/h stylist. Always have plan B.

At least with agency girls the agency supplies you with a second option.

And that's really the differentiator. Over the years I've gotten calls virtually last minute from the booker (for tests), that my girl was suddenly unavailable due to a paid gig. However, without fail I received a virtually equal girl to fill the same slot, so the impact on me was negligible.

On MM and freelance models, the same can't be said - it's a different world.

Through My Eyes 2011 wrote:
Does this mean that if I book a model for TF and the day before or hours before our shoot, she gets offered a paid job that it takes priority over ours and that I was warned ahead of time so I just should deal with it? Or if model is offered a TF shoot she will wait (reasonable time frame) to see if a paid job pops up before accepting and committing to the TF? Or are there other options?

If I booked a model for a TF session and she then informed me that she might cancel if she got a paid gig, it would be quite simple.

I would 'unbook' her.

If she mentioned that this was her policy when we were trying to schedule something, I never would book her in the first place.

Through My Eyes 2011 wrote:
Does this mean that if I book a llama for TF and the day before or hours before our shoot, she gets offered a paid job that it takes priority over ours and that I was warned ahead of time so I just should deal with it? Or if llama is offered a TF shoot she will wait (reasonable time frame) to see if a paid job pops up before accepting and committing to the TF? Or are there other options?

It means they are not really that interested in working with you, but if your the highest bidder they will put up with the booking to make money.

It doesn't mean they will overbook on you to do another job, but it does happen.

IDiivil wrote:
Paid jobs take priority in my scheduling (aka they tend to get first dibs on dates), but if I have agreed to shoot TFP and have a date scheduled, then I stick by it. I will not cancel a TFP shoot in favor of a paid shoot.

IMO, a TFP is as valuable to me as a paid shoot as the images I make from TFP get me connections and paid gigs, so if I say I will do something like TFP, I will not blow it off.

I don't think it's a very wise statement to make on a profile or something. Too many interpretations.


Edit: If it's a huge paid offer, however, I may talk to the photographer and see if I can't work out a rescheduling ... ;P Honestly depends on the situation, but I would NEVER flake/last min cancel.

This!!!

John Allan wrote:

And that's really the differentiator. Over the years I've gotten calls virtually last minute from the booker (for tests), that my girl was suddenly unavailable due to a paid gig. However, without fail I received a virtually equal girl to fill the same slot, so the impact on me was negligible.

On MM and freelance models, the same can't be said - it's a different world.

If you got a great booker they will send you an even better model sometimes but this is just one of many reasons to work with agencies.

Leon Bailey wrote:
Yeah, always clarify. Same with me. I tell models all the time if I shoot, that if I get booked for a video, I will have to postpone the shoot. Money >>>>

+1
shoot both as well and if someone is going to drop cash in my hand then it's "sorry love, but..."

IDiivil wrote:
Paid jobs take priority in my scheduling (aka they tend to get first dibs on dates), but if I have agreed to shoot TFP and have a date scheduled, then I stick by it. I will not cancel a TFP shoot in favor of a paid shoot.

IMO, a TFP is as valuable to me as a paid shoot as the images I make from TFP get me connections and paid gigs, so if I say I will do something like TFP, I will not blow it off.

I don't think it's a very wise statement to make on a profile or something. Too many interpretations.


Edit: If it's a huge paid offer, however, I may talk to the photographer and see if I can't work out a rescheduling ... ;P Honestly depends on the situation, but I would NEVER flake/last min cancel.

But, you are professional and pure class.  Nothing less than this would be expected.

Cynelle wrote:
If a commitment is made to something, it should be fulfilled unless there is legitimate reasoning to cancel. Money is great, but not everything. If I make a definite commitment to a photographer who is doing TF, I'm not going to cancel last minute...that's just unprofessional, regardless of the money. And plus, maybe that TF photographer will eventually hit it big and remember me. Haha

I nominate for the best first post ever.

Cynelle wrote:
If a commitment is made to something, it should be fulfilled unless there is legitimate reasoning to cancel. Money is great, but not everything. If I make a definite commitment to a photographer who is doing TF, I'm not going to cancel last minute...that's just unprofessional, regardless of the money. And plus, maybe that TF photographer will eventually hit it big and remember me. Haha

Cuica Cafezinho wrote:
I nominate for the best first post ever.

Nah.  But it's certainly a promising start.

Through My Eyes 2011 wrote:
Does this mean that if I book a model for TF and the day before or hours before our shoot, she gets offered a paid job that it takes priority over ours and that I was warned ahead of time so I just should deal with it? Or if model is offered a TF shoot she will wait (reasonable time frame) to see if a paid job pops up before accepting and committing to the TF? Or are there other options?

Yes, it does.  It also means, that if you get offered a paid job that it takes priority over your tf shoot.  A tf can always be rescheduled for another day.  A paid job offer at the last minute is a take it or loose it opportunity.

Cynelle wrote:
Haha, well thanks. I just saw this and had to give my input. Some of the comments pretty much were like "yeah, I scheduled a TF shoot with this person, but if this other person offers me something better 5 minutes before the shoot, the first person is out of luck." I may be pretty darn new to this, but that doesn't seem professional at all to me. :\

I just keep liking you more and more.

Ruben Sanchez wrote:
Yes, it does.  It also means, that if you get offered a paid job that it takes priority over your tf shoot.  A tf can always be rescheduled for another day.  A paid job offer at the last minute is a take it or loose it opportunity.

Is it also the case that if I get offered a TF shoot, it should be fine to cancel the shoot where I was going to pay?

I once drove 700 miles one way for a TF shoot.  I would have been VERY unhappy if she canceled at the last minute, even if it was for a paid shoot.  I'm sure the llamas who often travel two hours one way to do trade shoots with me would also be unhappy of I blew it off at the last minute.

Cynelle wrote:
If a commitment is made to something, it should be fulfilled unless there is legitimate reasoning to cancel. Money is great, but not everything. If I make a definite commitment to a photographer who is doing TF, I'm not going to cancel last minute...that's just unprofessional, regardless of the money. And plus, maybe that TF photographer will eventually hit it big and remember me. Haha

I agree.

Sadly, even paid sessions aren't immune from this when unprofessional behavior is involved. A few months ago, when all my regular makeup artists were unavailable for a multiple-model session, I hired another MUA (for $$, not images). The night before our next-morning shoot, I got the following email.

I am so sorry but my friend just asked me to do a commercial with her tomorrow and the rate is a lot higher than the shoot tomorrow so I have to take it! I'm sorry I feel really bad but have to take the higher rate.

I got her email around midnight, when I got home. (Ever try to find a makeup artist Friday after midnight, for a Saturday morning shoot? When everyone you've worked with before was unavailable?)

Two models, a studio, another photographer, and myself were impacted because one, supposedly professional, makeup artist was unwilling to respect a commitment. Granted, my shoot wasn't at full commercial rates, but she had committed to it, and she would have gotten paid.  I won't be contacting her again; after all, what expectation that this wouldn't happen for another paid shoot if something better came along?

Choosing what to accept is one thing, but after committing to it, unilaterally cancelling on very short notice is simply unprofessional behavior.

Cynelle wrote:
Haha, well thanks. I just saw this and had to give my input. Some of the comments pretty much were like "yeah, I scheduled a TF shoot with this person, but if this other person offers me something better 5 minutes before the shoot, the first person is out of luck." I may be pretty darn new to this, but that doesn't seem professional at all to me. :\

I doubt there are models who are actually like that... and the few that are are certainly unprofessional.

It have only been in that situation twice: first time I had planned a Tf shoot with a photographer I had worked with before, and about a week before our shoot would take place my agency calls if I'm available that weekend for a 2 day catalogue shoot (pay in total around 1200 euro...). I told the photographer, we rescheduled the shoot. Second time I had a tf shoot planned with a photogapher from paris who would be travelling to belgium especially for this shoot, my agency called about 2 weeks ahead if I was available for a client that day, and I told them that I wasn't available, so I missed out on paid work because I went through with the TF shoot, and both times I stand by my decision.

Now if you are telling me that you wouldn't consider rescheduling a TF shoot with a local photographer, giving notice a week ahead, to do a modelling job that earns you a thousand dollars, then I find that surprising.

what I don't think is okay:
*cancelling a TF for a better TF
*cancelling a paid job for a job that pays more (also not done within agencies anyway)
*cancelling on very short notice

Neil Snape wrote:
Kevin, I had a full commercial shoot once for Getty, the pay for the MU was like 600$ per day or so in 2000. I had worked with her before and thought she would be good enough. She did one day of a multi-day shoot and said , sorry I have a higher paid job. Yet here is a friend that can do it. The friend was incompetent and ruined the shoot.

The first mu person will never work with me again, and I slagged her at every opportunity.

It's one thing for a free or TF, to be bounced for a paid job but never should an agreed paid job be bounced for a better one.

Agreed - I've had to postpone TF shooting in favour of pay-jobs before - sorry but a last-minute 3.000,- EUR Wedding takes precedence over a TF fun shoot - I wish it didn't, but this is my livlihood and I have a family to support.

That said, I've also had to turn down better-paid jobs as I was already contracted to do something else - in those instances I turn to my local network and sub it out to another photographer while taking a finders' fee.