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touching models
I know this must be an old topic but I've seen nothing recently posted about it. I've been lucky enough to be shooting a LOT lately and recently experienced both sides of the same situation, that being touched by the photographer. I know my own feelings but wondering what everyone else's take on it was. The first was the recent paid shoot for ART IN AMERICA I did. I needed to be slightly re-positioned on my mark for the camera by the artist, Kathryn Andrews, and although I was fully dressed (in a clown costume!) she still asked politely "Can I touch you?" before gently guiding me to the place she wanted me to stand after I happily agreed. No problem. More recently I was doing a fine art shoot that while not nude, the wardrobe provided by the female photog was revealing. Rather than ask me to adjust the clothing in relation to "myself"(!), she jumped in without warning and did the job herself before I could quickly take matters over. I know it is inevitable that photogs, makeup artists and wardrobe stylist swill have to at some point come in physical contact with their modes, particularly in difficult setups or outdoor shoots, and body paint must be even more challenging. I just like to have some warning, and be assured the contact is professional only-or am I being paranoid or difficult? Other that the obvious, where, and how does one draw the line in touching a model and handle a situation that arises? What has been some of your experiences (positive and negative) from a model's or photog's standpoint? May 04 13 04:45 am Link For the most part I avoid all contact. I ask the model to fix whatever it is. If it's a wardrobe issue and she can't then I ask if I can. That's appropriate. If you don't ask, you are violating that person's space. If someone violates your space you should communicate that to that person immediately. Even a Doctor often tells you what he is going to do. They don't just walk up to you and start poking at you. May 04 13 04:59 am Link I personally make a point of never touching a model without asking permission first, but not everybody is as 'careful' as me. Wardrobe stylists and MUAs often feel they have a right to touch/adjust without asking permission - it just kind of comes with the territory. My best advice would be to work with people you trust and who have good references. However, if you're really that worried about being touched, maybe modelling isn't for you. Just my $0.02 Ciao Stefano www.stefanobrunesci.com May 04 13 05:19 am Link I always ask. It's perfectly all right for you to initiate a conversation prior to the commencement of the shoot to discuss 'rules of engagement' with the photography and others. May 04 13 05:20 am Link I do touch llamas, but only after trying other things. Usually I say what I want, and failing that I'll demonstrate myself, and if that doesn't work I'll ask if I can physically pose them. I have noticed that if I have an MUA, they're a lot more likely to just go over and touch the llama. But they're usually the same sex as the llama; so even though it might be a personal space issue, it's not usually as creepy. May 04 13 05:21 am Link I think it's basic manners to ask before touching someone to adjust something. That said, there are very few instances where I will decline. Chances are, if a piece of clothing, hair, etc. is off a bit the photographer will be able to see it before I do. I have had instances where I was touched without permission and it bothered me. In one instance I was working with an artist who started actually posing me himself by moving my limbs around to where he wanted them. Namely, he pushed my legs apart so that he could do his "gynecologist" drawings. I found that to be extremely rude. May 04 13 05:29 am Link I NEVER touch the model. That's one of the jobs of the MUA I always have available at all shoots. If I need a small arrangement of body position, I've always been able to communicate well enough with the model to have her make the change herself. The MUA is there to make sure the model's hair and make-up is correct. May 04 13 05:35 am Link Always ask. I think once, not too long ago, I didn't. We were just rolling along and she didn't seem to mind. But I caught myself afterwards and internalized an 'oops - shouldn't have done that'. It was just a strand of hair, but I shoulda asked.  May 04 13 05:38 am Link I rarely touch a model. In the rare occasions I did it, I always asked for permission. May 04 13 06:01 am Link So it would probably be fine to say "I'm just going to fondle your breast now..... pay no attention to that hand up your shirt!"........... I'm joking I never touch. I use my words and direct May 04 13 06:11 am Link 
Photographer Posts: 4288 Amundsen-Scott - permanent station of the US, Unclaimed Sector, Antarctica It's funny, if you are playing baseball and need to adjust a stance to hit, or a football player maximizing a tackling stance; there's a good chance the coach will come over and grab your leg or arm and move it into place. If you go to get your hair cut, the barber will touch your hair in order to cut it. If you take a ballroom dance class, your instructor will hold you (a lot!) In none of these cases is a boob grab or a palm on your privates acceptable, but.... otherwise; it's how things are done in a world that isn't paranoid and immature. Of course, it is unfortunate that we don't live in that world. And yes, pun intended, people shouldn't be so 'touchy.' May 04 13 06:12 am Link Swanson Studios wrote: Funny you should say that: May 04 13 06:18 am Link ..............although I wonder if I will still be accused of "perviness' if I touched a llama without permission at the wrong place ETA: I'm also a photographer, just haven't made a profile yet for that one. May 04 13 06:18 am Link i always ask, and explain what i want to correct, and its only something small like moving a strand of hair out of a model's eyes, etc. Honestly, if you act professionally at all times, there's never an issue with simple adjustments. May 04 13 06:26 am Link A studio or shoot/set is a professional environment and I can't see how people get acting and directing in a professional way confused with looking like a perve. Andrew Thomas Evans www.andrewthomasevans.com May 04 13 06:40 am Link I never touch a model without asking, even if it is for moving hair. Generally after shooting for a while ou find you don't have to ask everytime you need to move something. Most of the time I ask the assistance of the MUA or Stylist. May 04 13 07:00 am Link It will go against the grain for some people on both sides of the fence but in my opinion both models and photographers are people and therefore there is no one-size-fits-all answer. Before I begin a first shoot with a new model, usually at the preshoot meeting where we work these things out, I ask, "Are you a handshaker, a hugger, or a Howie Mandel?" This gives us a little laugh while we define the parameters for the shoot. It really depends on the individuals involved and the comfort level between them. I've shot with models who, like Mr. Mandel, were literally OCD, and others who can't talk without touching. One model put the whole question into perspective for me. I needed to adjust a bit of draping and was trying desperately to avoid touching her when in exasperation she grabbed my hand and pressed it against her breast, saying "For God's sake, they're just fat rolls. They won't bite you!" Since then my rule has been that I'm happy with whatever the model's happy with. May 04 13 07:02 am Link L Cowles Photography wrote: I don't ask, I tell. This isn't a tea party, it's a photoshoot. Now I may use "please" but that's only to be polite. May 04 13 07:03 am Link Helping pose the model is very acceptable to me and it helps get the exact pose the photographer is looking for, I get upset if they do not position me if I am having problems understanding what pose they want and I am not getting it right on my own. Any other type of touching is unacceptable to me. May 04 13 07:04 am Link Yes, no, maybe so. If you're sensitive about being touched, you'd best say something. What you described doesn't seem abnormal, it's just someone efficiently getting their work done, different people will have different styles. I'm not especially touchy in casual social settings. However, most of the models I work with I wind up touching. It can be just basic politeness to help someone up or down off of something, and I'm also working with some semi bondage and material tied to the models body so touching is pretty much required. The reasonable questions are: what is tolerable for you and what is the most efficient way to accomplish the shoot. I can certainly see why a photographer would adjust clothing, they are, after all the ones who can see where things need to be fitting differently and the fastest way to fix things is like you described. On the other hand being touched is subject to personal preferences and boundaries, so there's nothing wrong with you not liking it either. You'll have to decide in such situations if you want to put up with it or establish some boundaries and then say something about it. May 04 13 07:11 am Link I am a female photographer who mostly shoots and does makeup for female llamas. I always ask or let them know before hand when I'm going to touch them with my hands so they are not taken by surprise. May 04 13 07:18 am Link Had a kinda opposite experience where a model asked me to blow glitter out of her eyes. I know her quite well but it was still awkward for me. To the OPs question, Moving hair, tucking in labels and adjusting necklaces is about as far as I go in terms of touch but I always ask or I'm asked to when I point out things. May 04 13 07:19 am Link I rarely need to be touched. The only situation I can think of is if I'm in a difficult pose that would be a pain to get out of and recreate without causing the hair issue again, and I have hairs going every which way, then I will ASK the photographer to move the hair for me. Sometimes shoots go really well and end in a clothed hug. Sometimes we'll take a group photo if it's an involved shoot. Also typically involves clothes. I did a shoot in the snow in the very very cold, and an assistant carried me from where I posed to where we had removed snow and put down blankets, wrapped me up in a blanket, and removed snow from my feet while I shivered and waited for the next shot. That's it. Only reasons to touch me. May 04 13 07:25 am Link I know some photographers worry about models having cooties, but I think few really do. I've touched most models I've worked with at some point and am still cootie free. I'm not real touchy with models, but sometimes, somethings are best addressed in a manner that requires one person touching another. Sometimes a wardrobe or hair adjustment just isn't easy for the model to do. I often greet models with a hand shake. It's good to ask and act professionally, but I think this paranoia of touching or being touched that some have is ridiculous. May 04 13 07:53 am Link I tell models up front that I rarely see a need to touch them, but if I do I will always explain what I want to do and ask if it's OK, and if they say no then we figure out a different way to get the result I want. Some models who I've worked with several times have gotten to the point that they said "you can quit asking, I've learned that I can trust you." In those cases I have gotten a bit more casual about things like moving their hair or adjusting the position of a hand, but I still generally ask if it's anything more than that. It's simple courtesy and respect. That said, it can be carried too far. I was trying to verbally talk a model into a complex pose once. After about the tenth time saying "no, that's not quite what I meant" she said "For gods sake, will you just touch me already!? Grab my foot and put it up my ass if that's where you want it, 'cause I'm not getting what you're saying!" May 04 13 08:00 am Link sometimes it's easier to just adjust the model yourself but based on posts like this one i try to remember to ask. for our boudoir shoots i usually have the wife make any adjustments that the customer can't make herself. watching runway fashion shows it seems like the models get manhandled. May 04 13 08:15 am Link Photographer touches model without asking, caught on film. Go to 4 minutes for full on touching. Shocking stuff! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuPgK1RdQYY May 04 13 08:16 am Link BTHPhoto wrote: For me it's nothing to do with trust, it's just disruptive to me, if you suddenly start taking pictures and start walking towards me i'm going to turn to you and be like 'is something wrong, what's up'. Since the purpose of a photographer adjusting something is usually not to lose the model's pose the absolute first thing you should do is say 'stay exactly where you are, i'm just going to....'. Communication, it makes everything easier. May 04 13 08:50 am Link I never touch models -- they have cooties. May 04 13 08:55 am Link I am at fault for touching without asking BUT I only do it after I've given them instructions three or four times and they're just not getting it. And I don't touch them near their sensitive areas. Mostly it's adjusting hands and fingers. I just get frustrated and want to get it right quickly without wasting the time to ask. I do, on many occasions, fix stray hair. But I always tell them what I am going to do. And I only do it if they've hit the perfect pose and I don't want to take the chance that they will loose the pose when they move to fix the hair problem. It's a touchy issue. May 04 13 08:57 am Link ontherocks wrote: Other than flicking some loose hairs, how is it easier to adjust them yourself? May 04 13 08:58 am Link Like Damianne, I rarely need to be touched to begin with. I, myself, enjoy the touch of others - when I'm not modeling. I cuddle with friends, don't mind if my boobs happen to be grazed or my butt touched by accident, and love giving hugs. It's a way I show affection and trust. I have MAYBE two photographers who can now touch me without asking. Even then, I have days where I'm in a "do not touch me" stage - those tend to come across by body language and me asking again instead of having them show me. Past that, keep your hands off me while I work. If you know me personally, maybe. May 04 13 09:03 am Link I don't like to touch models. Sometimes they will ask me to fasten a necklace or something like that but if it comes to positioning or straightening costuming I find that my voice works fine. I believe that touching a model without asking permission makes them get their guards up and can create tension. Nothing...nothing is worse than tension on a set. When both parties are relaxed and trust one another the art flows. If you absolutely find it necessary to touch a model ask permission and tell them what it is you are going to do before you actually touch them. Now if you are doing nudes you don't have any excuse for touching. They can adjust their own bodies. I knew a photographer that used to use a long chaulkboard pointer and would raise the models arm or re position their leg or whatever. Seemed kind of like horse training but at least he was aware of not touching flesh to flesh. May 04 13 09:11 am Link Damianne wrote: But you're very skilled and experienced. I've worked with models where I frequently have to position them, especially for bodyscapes, where a novice model has no idea what the camera sees. On the other hand, I'm not sure I got within six feet of Brennan or IDiivil when we shot; you just stand back and watch amazing stuff happen. May 04 13 09:13 am Link I would always warn if I need to make physical contact with a model, even if its just to move hair out of the way. Even then, its rare. I can get through a shoot by directing verbally. May 04 13 09:21 am Link I thought this was going to be a thread about an inspirational model who overcame great odds to succeed. Maybe I've been watching ESPN 30 for 30 too much. May 04 13 09:31 am Link Let the models touch themselves.  May 04 13 09:37 am Link MelissaAnn wrote: Some photographers encourage it! May 04 13 09:39 am Link Cherrystone wrote: Model's right hand is on her waist. May 04 13 10:54 am Link I've watched "Sue Bryce" workshop at CreativeLive or her studio. She sometimes touched the model. She was trying to help the model and not need to tell the model every time, can I move this and that? I do touch the models often, just like a real life. Put your hand on her left shoulder and tilt it. I also showed them the way I pose and the model copied it. It is only a friendly touch. That's all. May 04 13 11:09 am Link |
