aspergianLens wrote:

E H wrote:
Photographer is a job, model is a job,, work first...  Get the shots, then talk after about the shoot or the next shoot...

I often talk while I shoot ...but not excessively. 

Also, it may well be a job, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be enjoyable.  I would make a serious argument that artwork suffers if it's not enjoyable.


I think it's fairly important to not be "overly" professional (read : stiff and uptight).  I just act like myself and don't worry too much about it.  I dislike excessive rigidity when it comes to dealing with models.  Fortunately I haven't really run into that problem very often.

I agree 100% it must be enjoyable for both the model/ the photographer. I do talk aswell more often then not, shot related. Then if the model wishes to talk about something else, that is fine to,, but work comes first and must be done, talking or not... Then sometimees the work needs total focus and I just want to work and shoot. Everyone is different,, repores needs to be worked out on all sides. I wouldn't want anyone to go to a job and not a word all day,, on the same token I would not want anyone to work with someone constantly talking either....

Nor-Cal Photography wrote:

Spark a conversation. Most like that. Some are not "talkers" but appear to appreciate a friendly approach. If a model doesn't like friendliness, I would prefer to not work with him/her, as the shoot usually results in worthless images.

But just one worthless opinion. 

I agree! you need that personal connection to create good art

Vampman Studios wrote:
What is the right way of shooting with a professional model?

There is no one "right way".

Photography is communication. Photographers and models are human beings. Shooting models, modelling for photographers is communication between human beings.

Different people communicate in different ways. Photographers as well as models have a clear advantage if they are somewhat capable to deal with other people.

c_h_r_i_s wrote:
By all accounts Helmut Newton was very cold in the way he'd treat models. Seems to have worked for him.

In the documentaries I've seen, Newton was a big joker and a great communicator. 

I'm a very outgoing and playful person, and I love working with photographers who are as well, but I also feel awkward when photographers act like my best friend the instant they meet me.  More important than friendliness is communication.  The WORST shoots for me are those with photographers who don't talk or who talk about everything other than what they want from me as a model.  I would err on the side of talking too much rather than too little, especially on a first shoot.  If you want a model to do her best work, you need to let her see something of your personality and relate to you on a personal level.

E H wrote:

Photographer is a job, model is a job,, work first...  Get the shots, then talk after about the shoot or the next shoot...

everyone has their own style -- who are you or anyone to tell someone how to do their job as long as they get the work done and the results are good and they are professional?

Jules NYC wrote:
Just be cool and don't try to date them or get too much into their personal business.

^^^

This plus friendly and professional.

Sarah Ellis wrote:

In the documentaries I've seen, Newton was a big joker and a great communicator. 

I'm a very outgoing and playful person, and I love working with photographers who are as well, but I also feel awkward when photographers act like my best friend the instant they meet me.  More important than friendliness is communication.  The WORST shoots for me are those with photographers who don't talk or who talk about everything other than what they want from me as a model.  I would err on the side of talking too much rather than too little, especially on a first shoot.  If you want a model to do her best work, you need to let her see something of your personality and relate to you on a personal level.

This, this and this.

TomFRohwer wrote:
There is no one "right way".

Photography is communication. Photographers and models are human beings. Shooting models, modelling for photographers is communication between human beings.

Different people communicate in different ways. Photographers as well as models have a clear advantage if they are somewhat capable to deal with other people.

This is true!   I've photographed thousands of people in the past 30 years, and not anyone was exactly alike.  Even twins have their personality differences.  I treat everyone as unique. 

It also depends on the circumstances of what the shoot is for.  When I was shooting portraits for retail studios or my own studio, I will typically begin the session by chatting with the person with whom I'm shooting the portrait of.  I ask questions aimed at gaining information about what they like, how they perceive themselves, and hopefully learn enough about them to create a portrait that they will appreciate. 

With children and pets, it's a whole different scenario, but I still need to win their confidence and trust in me.  With clients, I will communicate with them regarding their expectations, and what I can do to accomplish the project.  Couples getting married are another situation where I use quite a lot of communication before their wedding, and often times offer an engagement session for free just so I can gather information in my head about shooting them.

As for models, I like to communicate previous to shooting via messaging on this website, emailing, then progress to exchanging phone numbers so that we can text or talk.  I'm going to want to communicate through all those methods at least once before I am sure that the model wont flake.  Sometimes that's not even a guarantee.  However, if I should get sick or need to cancel, I will want to contact that model as quickly as possible via message, plus a phone call shortly after that to make sure she got the message.

Just before shooting, I will talk with the model to find out if she has any last second concerns about anything, but generally it's just some quick friendly banter then get to work.  While shooting, I'm not super talkative.  Mostly I say things giving feedback to the model during the shoot.  After the shoot, there might be more friendly banter.  I'll make sure that the model is paid, or knows when she will receive images ... and I tend to like to show some of the images before we go on our separate ways.

Generally, I am like a teacher.  My dad was a teacher, and so were many of my relatives.  I am rather a private person, as I don't talk much about my personal business with people I work with.  Once I've gotten to know you, I may open up ... I'll tell you about all the health issues I've had.  For example, I am happy just to be alive and able to do photography, but I am not considered a "too much information" person. Along with photography and writing, I love music.  No one here and only a very few on Facebook even know much about my love life!  That's because ... well I have none!  So there's not much to talk about.

The lesson plan again is that good communication greatly improves the chances of getting great images of people! 

Vampman Studios wrote:
(snip)...
What is the right way of shooting with a professional model? Should you try to spark a conversation with them, or just tell them what to do and leave quietly when the shoot is over?

You're starting out with an assumption...an assumption that all models are the same.  Nothing could be further from the truth.  Therefore, there is no one right, standard way that if all photographers acted this way, all models would be simpatico.

If you're all pros (agency model, professional photographer with an art director and graphics designer looking over your shoulder in the studio and a MUA, stylist, and a couple of clothing specialists in the wing), then yeah, everyone shows up and gets to work b/c time is money and we're often talking billable time here that will run in to the thousands of dollars.  The model is often someone that you (the photographer) have had no contact with and may not have even seen until she walks in to the studio to start working with the MUA.  As pros, you sit down, get to work, and get the results the client wants and that's it.

But absent that situation (which probably comprises maybe .001% of the shoots that MM photographers and models are engaged in), you should have enough interaction with the model upfront to know a range of things about shooting with her...that she doesn't like specific posing details--or she does.   That she likes instructions verbally/orally--or she prefers them with pictures or you mirroring the pose.  That she's nervous about the shoot--or this is her 1,000th shoot of this concept.  That she likes music in the background (and what type)--or she doesn't.  That she likes to see the results on the back of your camera every 10-15 shots or so--or she hates to have her flow disrupted.  She prefers email--or she hates it and relays on texting and phone calls.  It's not that you'll know all that.  But if you trade some emails or have a phone call or two pre-shoot to discuss concepts and logistics, you'll find some of this stuff out.

And what you'll discover is some models have had negative experiences with photographers and anything that smacks of you trying to loosen them up comes off as preparation for a pickup line.  And others model (in part) b/c they enjoy meeting people and the interaction and if all you do is compose shots and click the shutter, it's a terrible time as far as they're concerned.

Ed

Isis22 wrote:
I would rather work with someone a bit cold than someone who was too friendly. I have had a photographer ask questions that were WAY too personal and that basically ruined the shoot. I don't mind chit chat but people cross too many lines and I don't think they are really aware of it.

I worked a promo job not that long ago and the guy that hired me within the first 5 minutes of meeting me asked me if I was single/married and a slew of various personal questions that just really put me off.

I was cool, kind and cordial during the entire event that lasted a week.  He was probably the laziest person I have ever worked with and enjoyed treating me like a slave while he chilled out in the suite talking to the bartender all day. 

I love fun, engaging people but I am a private person and get pretty put off when a man is all gangbusters right out the gate, esp. for a professional relationship.

I've made many friends with the people I work with.

afplcc wrote:

You're starting out with an assumption...an assumption that all models are the same.  Nothing could be further from the truth.  Therefore, there is no one right, standard way that if all photographers acted this way, all models would be simpatico.

If you're all pros (agency model, professional photographer with an art director and graphics designer looking over your shoulder in the studio and a MUA, stylist, and a couple of clothing specialists in the wing), then yeah, everyone shows up and gets to work b/c time is money and we're often talking billable time here that will run in to the thousands of dollars.  The model is often someone that you (the photographer) have had no contact with and may not have even seen until she walks in to the studio to start working with the MUA.  As pros, you sit down, get to work, and get the results the client wants and that's it.

But absent that situation (which probably comprises maybe .001% of the shoots that MM photographers and models are engaged in), you should have enough interaction with the model upfront to know a range of things about shooting with her...that she doesn't like specific posing details--or she does.   That she likes instructions verbally/orally--or she prefers them with pictures or you mirroring the pose.  That she's nervous about the shoot--or this is her 1,000th shoot of this concept.  That she likes music in the background (and what type)--or she doesn't.  That she likes to see the results on the back of your camera every 10-15 shots or so--or she hates to have her flow disrupted.  She prefers email--or she hates it and relays on texting and phone calls.  It's not that you'll know all that.  But if you trade some emails or have a phone call or two pre-shoot to discuss concepts and logistics, you'll find some of this stuff out.

And what you'll discover is some models have had negative experiences with photographers and anything that smacks of you trying to loosen them up comes off as preparation for a pickup line.  And others model (in part) b/c they enjoy meeting people and the interaction and if all you do is compose shots and click the shutter, it's a terrible time as far as they're concerned.

Ed

Actually it's "no person is exactly alike" ...

What you said about less talk occurring during a shoot where agency models are working and the photographer is shooting for a client makes sense to me even though I've never hired through an agency before.   

Especially with my years of wedding and portrait experience, more often than not, the "client" has been the one in front of my camera.  So I have learned to read people and at least some conversation is necessary to do that.  With technology today, we are able to learn a tremendous amount of information about a person before they step in front of our camera.  I'm afraid the "art of conversation" is being lost by our youth.

Vampman Studios wrote:
What is the right way of shooting with a professional model? Should you try to spark a conversation with them, or just tell them what to do and leave quietly when the shoot is over?

I take great pride in my hearty sense of humor and not taking myself to seriously.

Emma Anne wrote:
I've shot with one photographer several times. He has become my favorite photographer to work with. The reason he's my favorite is that he's very friendly and hospitable. We have mimosas, cheese, sausage and crackers before every shoot, and he sometimes stops at a local bakery to get some pastries. He's fun to work with and always has something interesting and/or funny to say. He's also a paying client. I don't mind doing 2 to 3 hour shoot with him and only charging for an hour. He's nice and I really like working with him. The spread doesn't hurt either!

My opinion; many photographers (especially those looking for TF and to get paid for their work) may want to be more personable. I think it makes for a better shoot and the best images are captured when everyone is relaxed, comfortable with each other and happy to be in the same room together. Then again, everyone is different. I agree with other models who posted here; I don't like it when a photographer inquires about my love life. Keep it friendly, but professional!

I have wondered about something that is related to this topic: Do photographers also see themselves as directors? Do they think about using specific techniques to get the best from a model?

Believe it or not, a lot of models don't find it acceptable for photographers to provide them with alcohol prior to a shoot.

Additionally, your profile says your age is 20, and isn't the legal drinking age 21, so it sounds like your favorite photographer is providing alcohol to a minor prior to shoots?

I agree that being reasonably friendly, relaxed, and comfortable is quite nice, and yes, things should be kept professional.

NYMPH wrote:
I like 'em frigid and icy!

But really, sometimes overly friendly photographers make my gears grind, and slow down the creative process. I'm a natural introvert, and I've learned that there are several models with a similar disposition. I can handle the grumpy, the silent, the judging, the slightly social awkward. But give me someone who is overly flamboyantly friendly and there is a greater possibility of my shields slowly rising.

There are outgoing photographers that I worked with and loved. There are models who cannot handle a photographer who barely utters two syllables. I think the best choice is a middle ground, natural to who you are. As I've grown as a model, I've learned how to accept all sorts of different personalities, and how to truly mesh with them to create beautiful work. I imagine the same is true with photographers. I wouldn't swing too far to either polarity, and eventually, a natural balance will find itself.

Here's how I approach it all.  Basically I try to act like myself -- and not let the situation or the model change my behavior at all.   That's about it...

Flamboyantly friendly? Hmm... like this guy?