Maureen ONeill wrote:
I am a newer photographer (female) and will be shooting a lot of teens. Initially I'll be shooting out of my home and would be happy with a young woman bringing her mom or girlfriend. I get a free assistant that way! I would not want her bringing a boyfriend or other male. I would ask the escort to stay in the room with us (that's why they're there) and out of the way until/if I need them. That is my slant.

When the escort is a 6'4" biker dude with biceps bigger than  your waist let us know how it works for you.

m_s_photo wrote:
Boy, am I glad somebody raised this important issue. I don't understand why it hasn't been discussed before. I suspect some of the more dubious photographers may have had any previous discussions removed.

I'd NEVER shoot without an escort. I don't understand why anyone would go to a stranger's home or place of work without a backup for when things go wrong. After reading about that Terry Richards fellow I know I wouldn't feel comfortable being alone with a photographer and I'm sure ALL models would feel the same. I think carrying bear spray or something similar would also be a wise precaution.

It's just not worth it. Stay safe.

It's amazing people manage to go out tomorrow (Black Friday) to all those place of work filled with strangers and don't die.  I wonder why we stopped the practice of all unmarried women moving about without escorts.  How did we manage the past few hundred years!

m_s_photo wrote:
Boy, am I glad somebody raised this important issue. I don't understand why it hasn't been discussed before. I suspect some of the more dubious photographers may have had any previous discussions removed.

I'd NEVER shoot without an escort. I don't understand why anyone would go to a stranger's home or place of work without a backup for when things go wrong. After reading about that Terry Richards fellow I know I wouldn't feel comfortable being alone with a photographer and I'm sure ALL models would feel the same. I think carrying bear spray or something similar would also be a wise precaution.

It's just not worth it. Stay safe.

oh. lol

m_s_photo wrote:
Boy, am I glad somebody raised this important issue. I don't understand why it hasn't been discussed before. I suspect some of the more dubious photographers may have had any previous discussions removed.

I'd NEVER shoot without an escort. I don't understand why anyone would go to a stranger's home or place of work without a backup for when things go wrong. After reading about that Terry Richards fellow I know I wouldn't feel comfortable being alone with a photographer and I'm sure ALL models would feel the same. I think carrying bear spray or something similar would also be a wise precaution.

It's just not worth it. Stay safe.

Jay Farrell wrote:
Looks for the white knight photo....for real dude?

I'm sensing sarcasm in M_S's post. Shooting bear spray in a studio? That would be a bit like using a hand grenade for self-defense in a phone booth. Would any red-blooded Canadian not know better?

Orca Bay Images wrote:

m_s_photo wrote:
Boy, am I glad somebody raised this important issue. I don't understand why it hasn't been discussed before. I suspect some of the more dubious photographers may have had any previous discussions removed.

I'd NEVER shoot without an escort. I don't understand why anyone would go to a stranger's home or place of work without a backup for when things go wrong. After reading about that Terry Richards fellow I know I wouldn't feel comfortable being alone with a photographer and I'm sure ALL models would feel the same. I think carrying bear spray or something similar would also be a wise precaution.

It's just not worth it. Stay safe.

I'm sensing sarcasm in M_S's post. Shooting bear spray in a studio? That would be a bit like using a hand grenade for self-defense in a phone booth. Would any red-blooded Canadian not know better?

Yea makes sense, funny

STMurphy Photography wrote:
Look at it from a model's perspective. If a photographer has a "no escort" policy, the first thing on my mind would be "why not?" I strongly recommend models bring an escort to the first meeting and especially the first shoot. It is up to them if they feel they need or want one after that. I gladly put them to work taking meter readings, holding or adjusting reflectors, etc. I tell models to AVOID photographers who have a no escort policy.

Do you have any time to take photos amid all that polishing of spurs?






Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

That Italian Guy wrote:
Do you have any time to take photos amid all that polishing of spurs?






Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

Polish my spurs? It must be a limey thing, wtf are you talking about? Are you just being a dickhead?

STMurphy Photography wrote:

Polish my spurs? It must be a limey thing, wtf are you talking about? Are you just being a dickhead?

It was a white knight reference I believe.

CHAD ALAN wrote:
It was a white knight reference I believe.

So in other words, he was being a dickhead. Color me surprised. Classic limey superiority complex.

STMurphy Photography wrote:
Look at it from a model's perspective. If a photographer has a "no escort" policy, the first thing on my mind would be "why not?". As much as we may hate to admit it, there are a lot of creeps out there, many with very good portfolios. I have been doing this for over two decades and I have heard more than my share of horror stories.   I strongly recommend models bring an escort to the first meeting and especially the first shoot. It is up to them if they feel they need or want one after that. I gladly put them to work taking meter readings, holding or adjusting reflectors, etc. I tell models to AVOID photographers who have a no escort policy.

So you don't shoot professional or agency models.   Just so you know many if not  most working pro shooters don't allow escorts.   They have MUA and stylists and assistants.   If a model still requires friends.   Maybe modeling isn't for her.   Someone with really bad intentions would just hurt the escort who in many cases is a female friend or relative.   You should strongly recommend whatever you like but leave anyone else out of it and last.   Don't call folks names.

STMurphy Photography wrote:

So in other words, he was being a dickhead. Color me surprised. Classic limey superiority complex.

Must be. I'm a limey too, and I think he let you off easy.

STMurphy Photography wrote:
Look at it from a model's perspective. If a photographer has a "no escort" policy, the first thing on my mind would be "why not?". As much as we may hate to admit it, there are a lot of creeps out there, many with very good portfolios. I have been doing this for over two decades and I have heard more than my share of horror stories.   I strongly recommend models bring an escort to the first meeting and especially the first shoot. It is up to them if they feel they need or want one after that. I gladly put them to work taking meter readings, holding or adjusting reflectors, etc. I tell models to AVOID photographers who have a no escort policy.

I think it's plain out wrong to recommend that photographers who have a no-escort policy be avoided.

I personally think it's weird that a photographer would say, "come meet me for a pre-shoot meeting, and please bring an escort, I recommend it so you feel safe".

I don't need to recommend an escort in order to give the model a sense of security and to prove my good intentions. My pre-shoot communication validates my intentions.

EDIT: I'm all for 100% safety, vetting, references, model check-ins, etc. I just take exception with blanket statements that photographers who don't allow escorts should be avoided.

And for the record, I usually do allow escorts, although I really prefer not to have them. But most models I work with come alone.

STMurphy Photography wrote:
So in other words, he was being a dickhead. Color me surprised. Classic limey superiority complex.

STMurphy Photography wrote:
As much as we may hate to admit it, there are a lot of creeps out there, many with very good portfolios. I have been doing this for over two decades and I have heard more than my share of horror stories.

I guess I should thank you for complimenting me on my "very good portfolio" then, as you added that to the post I quoted just after I replied to you

So um, yeah, thanks my friend!

If a model wants to know whether it's safe to work with me (or to stay at my house out in the middle of nowhere with nobody else around) then she only has to ask any of the models listed in my profile, many of whom have worked and stayed here numerous times, including two of whom who have actually lived here as my housemates (one still does), all without incident.

Or I suppose, she could be lazy and paranoid and take your ridiculous white-knighting 'advice' and insist on bringing an escort to 'protect her' from me, in which case my highly suspicious response would be simply, "NEXT!"

And now, for your information, as you are obviously labouring under some misapprehensions, here's an excellent post by Madame Bink, one of the best known and most successful art nude models in the UK. She's been modelling (mostly nude) for 6 years and has never had a serious problem with a photographer because she uses her head and takes reasonable precautions, including checking references, before working with somebody for the first time.

Starting Modelling: Staying Safe - by Madame Bink



Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

- Phil H - wrote:
Whilst I might agree, that the fora are perhaps not the best place to indulge in knightly behaviour, I would ask that you kindly refrain from baiting Mr Murphy.

Duly noted

I'll try to keep my limey superiority complex under control from now on, with respect to Mr Murphy at least.




Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

Mel Recker wrote:
I must admit that I'm also very confused by this thing about not allowing significant others. Do models show up with their bf's or gf's...and they haven't told their partner they're shooting nudes?!!! That seems cray cray.

Mel

Yes they do, and yes it is. Happened to me once and only once, hence my "No Escort" policy

Orca Bay Images wrote:

AlexaRose wrote:
I always ask "Is it alright if my boyfriend might come along? He can sit in a different room and won't affect the shoot at all."

How about your BF sits in the car and we call him a driver? I've never known a photographer to object to a driver. Come on in, say hi, go back to the car until the shoot's over. No problem.

This has nothing to do with a lack of trust-if I didn't trust you to not do anything to me, why would I trust you to honor a contract that deals with my (often nude) photos? It also has nothing to do with my comfort or self-confidence with this line of work.

My spidey-senses are tingling...


It's nice you're a tight couple, but cut the umbilicus and save the bonding for another setting. As far as saving gas, he can read in the car.

Model Said:

Thanks for letting me know your availability for Sunday - the reason I didn't take your last minute booking is that my partner drives me to the shoots, and both of us have a life, so last minute bookings don't work. Also I should let you know that my partner attends the shoots and is cool because he's been in the business for ten years. Please remind me what the compensation will be for Sunday's shoot.

Thanks for writing.
 
_______________________________________
I Replied:

I didn't consider 5 days in advance to be "last minute."
Nothing wrong with "having a life": except when it interferes with business. As I do not allow anyone at shoots (see my profile) I guess this is not ever going to work out.

Thank you for your time and good luck in your career.
_____________________________________

m_s_photo wrote:
I think carrying bear spray or something similar would also be a wise precaution.

For those times when she is buck naked!

Raychel Adams wrote:
I do get curious when photographers put in their profile bios "absolutely no escorts", but at the same time if they have a bunch of references listed right there in their profile I feel like that should make up for it.  Models just need to check out who they are going to work with.  Check, check, CHECK references and if you want to be doubly safe meet up with the person first at a Starbucks.

I agree, when contacting any model I always include at least 6 references - models who I have worked with more than once, and I have gone on "Pre shoot" meets too.

Raychel Adams wrote:
I do get curious when photographers put in their profile bios "absolutely no escorts", but at the same time if they have a bunch of references listed right there in their profile I feel like that should make up for it.  Models just need to check out who they are going to work with.  Check, check, CHECK references and if you want to be doubly safe meet up with the person first at a Starbucks.

Many models have contacted me for nude photoshoots.  I guess that they feel safe.   

Jerry Nemeth wrote:

Many models have contacted me for nude photoshoots.  I guess that they feel safe.   

Yes, we've heard this a million times, and all your tales about shooting in hotel rooms and naked in the desert etc, etc. But, please do carry on, it's been at least 2-3 threads since you last mentioned the words, hotel rooms, naked women and feeling safe!

STMurphy Photography wrote:

Polish my spurs? It must be a limey thing, wtf are you talking about? Are you just being a dickhead?

Wow, 1st of Jan and the insults are flying fast and thick, limey and dickhead...! Nice dude, keep it classy!

London Fog wrote:
Yes, we've heard this a million times, and all your tales about shooting in hotel rooms and naked in the desert etc, etc. But, please do carry on, it's been at least 2-3 threads since you last mentioned the words, hotel rooms, naked women and feeling safe!

My posts have not reached 1 million yet but it's the truth.
You are exaggerating a bit.   

The fact is models that I have photographed have never requested an escort!

Mel Recker wrote:
Yes, yes. I see your point. Exploitation sometimes happens, irrespective of whether or not the photos are what would be traditionally considered, "classy."

Hi Mel welcome to the Mayhem.
I see you got broke in hard right away. But don't let them break you of your comfort zone. I have been modeling for 26 years and I take my hubby whenever he can go. And I never go alone.
I don't have a shortage of work. I am completely booked until spring and am now filling up my only 2 days a week off.
The point being that if you want to take an escort its not going to be the factor that will slow you down. I have argued this point with the same people you have been arguing with for more than a year now and it gets nowhere.
There are a lot more photographers that don't care if you have someone accompany you on a shoot than do and most of them don't post here or they post very little.
The majority of the paying photographers just lurk.

As far as TR goes. You have it wrong and using him as an example was wrong. He didn't exploit anyone. He is being exploited.

I am very surprised at the fact that this thread has been allowed to go on in the newby forum. This topic makes people behave very badly and I wouldn't be surprised if the newbs don't want to shoot with anyone that they have witnessed here.

To the OP and yourself. The internet world is a bit of a challenge and safety should be your number one concern. Don't let anyone talk you into dropping your comfort zone. If your gut says be concerned then be concerned. If you are uncomfortable going to meet strangers that you have only talked to on the internet a lone then don't go a lone and don't let anyone push you.
No body else ... Dr s Dentists etc.... will never tell you have to come to your appointment a lone. As a matter of fact My Gynecologist insists on me not to come a lone and will do nothing unless the nurse is in the room with him these days.

Believe me when I say this is the world of misinformation we live in now. The criminals are extremely good at it.
Don't be afraid just be safe and smart. And be good to you.
That's all I am going to say about it. Because I don't need to get into a 11 page argument here that leads nowhere. You have several opinions and lots of information now you can sort through it and find your comfort zone and what works for you.

Caitin Bre wrote:

Hi Mel welcome to the Mayhem.
I see you got broke in hard right away. But don't let them break you of your comfort zone. I have been modeling for 26 years and I take my hubby whenever he can go. And I never go alone.
I don't have a shortage of work. I am completely booked until spring and am now filling up my only 2 days a week off.
The point being that if you want to take an escort its not going to be the factor that will slow you down. I have argued this point with the same people you have been arguing with for more than a year now and it gets nowhere.
There are a lot more photographers that don't care if you have someone accompany you on a shoot than do and most of them don't post here or they post very little.
The majority of the paying photographers just lurk.

As far as TR goes. You have it wrong and using him as an example was wrong. He didn't exploit anyone. He is being exploited.

I am very surprised at the fact that this thread has been allowed to go on in the newby forum. This topic makes people behave very badly and I wouldn't be surprised if the newbs don't want to shoot with anyone that they have witnessed here.

To the OP and yourself. The internet world is a bit of a challenge and safety should be your number one concern. Don't let anyone talk you into dropping your comfort zone. If your gut says be concerned then be concerned. If you are uncomfortable going to meet strangers that you have only talked to on the internet a lone then don't go a lone and don't let anyone push you.
No body else ... Dr s Dentists etc.... will never tell you have to come to your appointment a lone. As a matter of fact My Gynecologist insists on me not to come a lone and will do nothing unless the nurse is in the room with him these days.

Believe me when I say this is the world of misinformation we live in now. The criminals are extremely good at it.
Don't be afraid just be safe and smart. And be good to you.
That's all I am going to say about it. Because I don't need to get into a 11 page argument here that leads nowhere. You have several opinions and lots of information now you can sort through it and find your comfort zone and what works for you.

The real reason is because he doesn't want to open himself to false accusations!

Jerry Nemeth wrote:

The real reason is because he doesn't want to open himself to false accusations!

Well there was some things that a few Dr s did that set that stage. once they get a few convictions then everyone is paranoid that someone could just say something. Then insurance companies start setting up mandates that change the way things are done.

DGI Concepts wrote:
The majority of the paying photographers just lurk??

Does any other Photographer take issue with this?
I am certain most models would like to be compensated for their time.

If I am HIRING a model I expect to pay her, just as If I am HIRED to shoot I too expect to be paid for my time.

Ok you have been on here since 2009. You have 21 posts. You pay models.
Obviously you lurk. you don't participate much or it would be obvious in your number of posts. Point made.

Most of my paid work is from photographers that do not participate in forum discussions but watch the forum (lurk) then contact me through PM.

I hope this clears up what I meant by lurk. Its not a bad thing.

Caitin Bre wrote:

Ok you have been on here since 2009. You have 21 posts. You pay models.
Obviously you lurk. you don't participate much or it would be obvious in your number of posts. Point made.

Most of my paid work is from photographers that do not participate in forum discussions but watch the forum (lurk) then contact me through PM.

I hope this clears up what I meant by lurk. Its not a bad thing.

OK, I do read the forums and rarely post.