Photographer
Looknsee Photography
Posts: 26342
Portland, Oregon, US
Mom & Dad created a trust fund when I was born & continued to contribute to it. The trust fund was sufficient to pay for my undergraduate degree. Thankis, Mom & Dad.
I paid my way through graduate school with a stipend. At first, I was a professor's grading assistant (for a class I was taking) -- he would grade my work, make sure I understood the material, and let me grade my classmates work (spot checking). I made some extra money by proofreading the text books some of my professors were writing. One professor promised to pay me $50 for every bug I found in the program snippets in his book -- after a week or so, he decided it would be cheaper for him if he tossed all his program snippets & let me write them. Towards the end of my stay, I got a grant to implement my masters thesis. Ah, it was easy times. I didn't put any money in the bank -- it was a hand-to-mouth existence, but I graduated without any student debt.
Were my degrees "worth it"? I don't know -- how do you determine the worth of a degree. My undergraduate degree was pretty worthless, in terms of my being able to find a good job, but it was invaluable in terms of me learning self-reliance and self-motivation. The graduate degree was definitely worth it -- I was able to get a high paying (six figures) job, and with lessons learned in both undergraduate & graduate school, I was able to advance to a special senior position.
My advice -- if you can, do what Mom & Dad did -- create a trust fund early on: there can be tax benefits, interest works in your favor, and you avoid student loan debt.
Photographer
Click Hamilton
Posts: 36555
San Diego, California, US
I think people would be better off understanding and achieving wealth (including the kind that comes from the inside out) and financial freedom, or at least freedom from debt, as quickly as possible.
Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 21617
New York, New York, US
Model
Laura UnBound
Posts: 28745
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Photography by Sean wrote:
A lot of these people that are caught up in this student loan crisis are in it because they attended college for some useless degree. They obtained a degree in black studies, women studies, history....or some other useless field that isn't in demand. So of course they're not gonna be able to find jobs.
On that note, I'm gonna short S.L.A.B.S. because I too feel that the student loan bubble is gonna burst. We used to have jobs that didn't require a degree, and we used to have affordable education
Higher education was for people who WANTED to further their schooling in something, and nothing was "useless", knowledge should never be looked at as useless, or only for those who can afford to just "throw money and time away". It shouldn't be a matter of deciding which bits of knowledge are going to help you get paid the most, but it is now. If you want more knowledge about women of the 17th century simply because you think its fucking neat you should be able to get it without being made to feel like it was a waste, and it shouldn't be a burden to learn
We also used to have jobs that required degrees that actually pertained to the job.
My mother never went to college, she worked in the same field for over 30 years, she was the best in her office, but anytime there was a promotion opening someone else less qualified and less suited for the job would get it, simply because they had the college degree and she didn't, and one was required for the open position. It never mattered that their degree was in fucking interior decorating and she was working in an insurance firm.
Its ridiculous that "useless" degrees trump experience and knowledge, all that really amounts to is "you spent an assload of money (and it doesnt even matter what for) so I guess you're better at this than the person who didn't spend their life savings and now is in extreme debt, you're hired!"
We turned education into a for-profit business instead of something that betters the entire society, and screwed everyone except the people profiting. Of course. And its also now a complete necessity to be able to get anywhere in life, rather than something people suited for it would opt for. We took an entire two weeks in 8th grade (12 year olds) to talk with people from our local community college to begin mapping the next 8 years of our education. Twelve, and deciding what you want to do for the rest of your life and how to get there so you dont get stuck working at the gas station until you die.
Photographer
Michael Bots
Posts: 8020
Kingston, Ontario, Canada
This. Laura UnBound wrote:
We turned education into a for-profit business instead of something that betters the entire society, and screwed everyone except the people profiting. CEO--
Why a Traditional 4-Year Degree is a Terrible Investment
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ch4D5-9jdbk
College considerations should include future debt
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2014 … e-decision
Students who borrow too much can cut back lifetime wealth
Rx for doctor: Save up, then pay student loans
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011 … dent-loans
"According to the Association of American Medical Colleges, the average 2010 grad who borrowed to pay for med school finished studies with $158,000 in loans."
"Consider: Under the standard 10-year repayment plan, the monthly bill for a loan balance of $150,000 is $1,726 (including interest, which for Stafford loans, the most common federal student loan, is 6.8 percent)."
Model
Jen B
Posts: 4474
Phoenix, Arizona, US
What Fun Productions wrote:
Mark Cuban Explains the Student Loan Crisis in Less than 90 Seconds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohLrNlY_TBk
Do you have any student loans? If so how much do you owe, what is your payment and how long to pay it off?
Do you feel the degree you received was worth the debt you incurred? My debt was worth it for me. Otherwise I would still be working nearly around the clock around the calander, (in entry level positions in factories, hospitals, cleaning homes and as a waitress,) for 80+ hours a week with little to no benefits or a life to speak of.
However it will be my last substantial debt. It is also one that I am seriously budgeting to eradicate.
Once done I plan to use that budgeting to make any other big or substantial purchases in cash, in full. NO credit for me.
Yeah, I drank the Dave Ramsey, "My Total Money Makeover" and Financial University Koolaide.
Jen
Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 21617
New York, New York, US
Model
Jen B
Posts: 4474
Phoenix, Arizona, US
Jules NYC wrote:
I could have my student loan debt paid of by December if I was more old fashioned too.
Said "No thank you" just recently to this exact scenario. ++ for you Jules!
Please don't let that monkey of debt hound your or ruin your joy.
A budget is a beautiful thing. If the only thing about the whole Dave Ramsey plan that was worth it for me was the debt thermometer or debt calculator or debt snowball. That in itself changed my debt and my peace of mind over it, forever!
Here is a preview, (he is Christian and unapologetic about it yet, he is not a finger pointer unkind one, he is down to Earth and funny.)
https://www.daveramsey.com/fpu/preview/
Jen
Photographer
Mark Reeder
Posts: 627
Huntsville, Ontario, Canada
Schools are businesses. Better to start your own business than go into debt for decades.
Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 21617
New York, New York, US
MB Jen B wrote:
++ for you Jules!
Please don't let that monkey of debt hound your or ruin your joy.
A budget is a beautiful thing. If the only thing about the whole Dave Ramsey plan that was worth it for me was the debt thermometer or debt calculator or debt snowball. That in itself changed my debt and my peace of mind over it, forever!
Here is a preview, (he is Christian and unapologetic about it yet, he is not a finger pointer unkind one, he is down to Earth and funny.)
https://www.daveramsey.com/fpu/preview/
Jen I think the most difficult lesson to learn is live within your means. If I want to live the way I knew growing up, I have to kick it up a few more notches;)
I don't need much, just enough privacy and space to be comfortable.
There is great liberation in having a handle on your finances:)
Photographer
Jerry Nemeth
Posts: 33355
Dearborn, Michigan, US
MB Jen B wrote:
My debt was worth it for me. Otherwise I would still be working nearly around the clock around the calander, (in entry level positions in factories, hospitals, cleaning homes and as a waitress,) for 80+ hours a week with little to no benefits or a life to speak of.
However it will be my last substantial debt. It is also one that I am seriously budgeting to eradicate.
Once done I plan to use that budgeting to make any other big or substantial purchases in cash, in full. NO credit for me.
Yeah, I drank the Dave Ramsey, "My Total Money Makeover" and Financial University Koolaide.
Jen My daughter is taking classes to become a Surgical Technologist. She was on the Deans List last semester. 
Model
Jen B
Posts: 4474
Phoenix, Arizona, US
Jules NYC wrote:
I think the most difficult lesson to learn is live within your means. If I want to live the way I knew growing up, I have to kick it up a few more notches;)
I don't need much, just enough privacy and space to be comfortable.
There is great liberation in having a handle on your finances:) Indeed.
While I know you were just yukking it up on a highly racist negative stereotype here but Jules NYC wrote:
Too bad I'm not an American Indian.
I'd be a professional student. that isn't really how it works. Plenty of other and more attainable scholarships to get in line for rather than to try to get in the back of the line for one like this. However you could also try to apply for a bunch of other unlikely scholarships too but the smear isn't on them like First Nations/Native Tribes is. The smear/hate campaign was intentional I'm sure and apparently worked real good seeing as everyone spouts this whole free ride thing. Or else you are just a professional hater.
Jen
Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 21617
New York, New York, US
MB Jen B wrote:
Indeed.
While I know you were just yukking it up on a highly racist negative stereotype here but
that isn't really how it works. Plenty of other and more attainable scholarships to get in line for rather than to try to get in the back of the line for one like this. However you could also try to apply for a bunch of other unlikely scholarships too but the smear isn't on them like First Nations/Native Tribes is. The smear/hate campaign was intentional I'm sure and apparently worked real good seeing as everyone spouts this whole free ride thing.
Jen I meant that in a positive light.
One of my oldest friends is an American Indian.
Native American?
Whatever
I call him my friend and being Cherokee, he never corrected me once.
Political police thank you.
I would love to have a break on education, that is the spirit in which I meant it.
I think MM has an automatic knee-jerk reaction to these things. I however don't mean anything by it.
Plus all by Indian friends Cowboys and Indians were all hot.
I need to go to university for sarcasm.
I don't think mean.
I think I'm so naturally politically incorrect because I have friends from everywhere so I never attributed hateful connotations to anything unless it bothered my friends.
Words are powerful; I just don't hang or dissect them 24/7.
They only have positive or negative weight dependent upon what we feel that they represent other than Webster's.
Anyhoo,
Life is too short to be worried about money, debt or shit (inclusive of MM crap).
Photographer
Shot By Adam
Posts: 8098
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
I went to college back in the early 90s and paid for about 75% of it (my parents paid the balance) and I was able to do it while I worked almost full time managing a small burger joint. I thought college was a complete and utter waste of my time and I dropped out 3/4 of the way through my senior year.
If I could set the clock back, I never would have gone in the first place. I got nothing out of it and I'm glad I left when I did.
Photographer
Wye
Posts: 10811
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
I had no debt when I left university 16 years ago. I emptied my (meagre) retirement savings to pay for my first year and then worked between school terms to pay off the following term. I always squeaked by -- my parents helping with a few hundred here and there when I reached the end of my finances. With the exception of maybe a thousand or two I financed my university career on my own. My marks were excellent so I could have applied for scholarships and bursaries but I felt others needed them more.
Of course two things helped:
1) being canadian and having (at the time) a government that cared about having an educated populace -- university graduates make up 24% of the population but pay 40% of the taxes... the investment pays off in spades.
2) working in my chosen field (computer science in the entertainment industry) I was able to make enough to support myself between terms. Others in different fields (even those also in computer science) weren't able to do the same.
On the back of that education and life experience I have been incredibly successful so yes.. for me the investment was more than worth it. All told my entire university career -- 5 years of tuition, books, room, board, entertainment, travel, etc. -- cost me less than $50,000. If I had gone to school in the USA as I originally had planned I would have spent that on tuition, room and board alone less than 2 years. I would have been in debt to the tune of fifty or sixty thousand dollars. Would *that* have been worth it? Hard to say. In the long run.. probably.. but yeah.. hard to say.
Photographer
Tony-S
Posts: 1460
Fort Collins, Colorado, US
I had a 4.0 out of high school and a 32 on the ACT. So, college didn't cost me anything.
Model
Model MoRina
Posts: 6640
MacMurdo - permanent station of the US, Sector claimed by New Zealand, Antarctica
Tony-S wrote:
I had a 4.0 out of high school and a 32 on the ACT. So, college didn't cost me anything. That's awesome! Congrats!
I was valedictorian of my high school and was offered a full-ride scholarship to U of M and Michigan State, but they withdrew the offer when they found out I was not an American citizen. All that work for nothing....so I went in the Air Force instead. Unfortunately, there was no GI Bill when I enlisted, and I was never grandfathered in for any future programs.
Photographer
Jay Leavitt
Posts: 6745
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Should be finishing my Masters in Business / Technology Management this time next year. I will have zero student loans / debt. I'm actually getting paid to go to school (post 9/11 GI bill)
My wife is finishing her dual major BS - Physics / Biochem and will graduate at about the same time with no student loans / debt.
Personally, my degree was instrumental in me getting my current job (mid level IT at a University) --- my boss and his boss both have MBAs --- and I'm getting my MBA --- I'm pretty sure that one will be pretty damn important too.
Gonna get my Doctorate after that... probably for shits and giggles, cause at that point, the University will be offering me free / reduced tuition.
Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 21617
New York, New York, US
-JAY- wrote:
Should be finishing my Masters in Business / Technology Management this time next year. I will have zero student loans / debt. I'm actually getting paid to go to school (post 9/11 GI bill)
My wife is finishing her dual major BS - Physics / Biochem and will graduate at about the same time with no student loans / debt.
Personally, my degree was instrumental in me getting my current job (mid level IT at a University) --- my boss and his boss both have MBAs --- and I'm getting my MBA --- I'm pretty sure that one will be pretty damn important too.
Gonna get my Doctorate after that... probably for shits and giggles, cause at that point, the University will be offering me free / reduced tuition. That is awesome!
Photographer
Shot By Adam
Posts: 8098
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
-JAY- wrote:
Should be finishing my Masters in Business / Technology Management this time next year. I will have zero student loans / debt. I'm actually getting paid to go to school (post 9/11 GI bill)
My wife is finishing her dual major BS - Physics / Biochem and will graduate at about the same time with no student loans / debt.
Personally, my degree was instrumental in me getting my current job (mid level IT at a University) --- my boss and his boss both have MBAs --- and I'm getting my MBA --- I'm pretty sure that one will be pretty damn important too.
Gonna get my Doctorate after that... probably for shits and giggles, cause at that point, the University will be offering me free / reduced tuition. Good for you both Jay. College isn't for everyone (it certainly wasn't for me) but I'm glad it is for the two of you!
Photographer
Jay Leavitt
Posts: 6745
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Shot By Adam wrote:
Good for you both Jay. College isn't for everyone (it certainly wasn't for me) but I'm glad it is for the two of you! It all depends on career path.
Today? I think tradeschools / skilled labor are the way to go. My brother makes $40/hr in construction... not bad for minimal school, and on the job training (no debt, just incremental training)
I want to be in a managerial position in IT --- that needs a degree. My wife wants to do forensics --- that needs a degree (or two) For what we want, it's the best route.
But, skilled labor is the way to go these days.
Model
Isis22
Posts: 3557
Muncie, Indiana, US
I don't remember how much my loans were but I paid them off early by making an extra payment or two every year. It was a real bitch because I had a lot of medical bills to pay at the same time. I had gallbladder surgery and a seizure within the same year and no health insurance. I did get discounts because I worked in a hospital. I was told by a lot of people to just declare bankruptcy but I couldn't do it. I'm a fighter. My parents didn't pay a dime of my college which is one reason I didn't finish my degree. I don't regret going to college because it got me out of my hometown and on my own. It sure beat getting married, or going into the service. Those were the other choices my parents gave me.
Photographer
Al Lock Photography
Posts: 17024
Bangkok, Bangkok, Thailand
When I graduated, I had no debt. I started working when I was 15 and saved to pay for school. While in college, I worked multiple jobs (summers included working as a cook in a country club and as a counselor at an Easter Seals camp) - playing drums in a rock band, DJing frat parties, shoveling snow and coal, and being a drill instructor at a military high school. My last two years I received $100 a month from the US Army for being on an ROTC contract and my last summer was Advanced Camp/CTLT.
My MA was paid for by my employer (the US Army).
Photographer
Shot By Adam
Posts: 8098
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
-JAY- wrote:
It all depends on career path.
Today? I think tradeschools / skilled labor are the way to go. My brother makes $40/hr in construction... not bad for minimal school, and on the job training (no debt, just incremental training)
I want to be in a managerial position in IT --- that needs a degree. My wife wants to do forensics --- that needs a degree (or two) For what we want, it's the best route.
But, skilled labor is the way to go these days. If you've ever watched Mike Rowe (from Dirty Jobs) lecture, he's a huge advocate for this. There are entire industries in this country that are severely lacking quality employees and are paying through the nose to get them. Everything from welders to technical mechanics and so forth.
Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 21617
New York, New York, US
Model
Model Sarah
Posts: 40987
Columbus, Ohio, US
Looknsee Photography wrote:
Mom & Dad created a trust fund when I was born & continued to contribute to it. The trust fund was sufficient to pay for my undergraduate degree. Thankis, Mom & Dad.
My advice -- if you can, do what Mom & Dad did -- create a trust fund early on: there can be tax benefits, interest works in your favor, and you avoid student loan debt. Yeah except the majority of Americans can barely afford to keep themselves afloat, much less create a trust fund for their kids. Cost of living and averages wages aren't mutually exclusive anymore. That started changing about 20 years ago. Most people I know with degrees aren't working in fields that their degree is in and a lot can't nail a job that is financially worth it. So, they are underpaid or unemployed. There is no such thing as the middle class anymore so people cannot afford college. College tuition is on the rise (because it is unfortunately a business like everything else is here) and people are either going into debt for nothing or they are not being educated. Talk about a lose/lose situation.
I'm going into the culinary world, and while I would love to attend culinary school I simply cannot afford it. I'll keep being debt-free and teach myself everything I need to know. Luckily the internet and those old things called books are kinda neat. 
Model
Model Sarah
Posts: 40987
Columbus, Ohio, US
-JAY- wrote:
Should be finishing my Masters in Business / Technology Management this time next year. I will have zero student loans / debt. I'm actually getting paid to go to school (post 9/11 GI bill)
My wife is finishing her dual major BS - Physics / Biochem and will graduate at about the same time with no student loans / debt.
Personally, my degree was instrumental in me getting my current job (mid level IT at a University) --- my boss and his boss both have MBAs --- and I'm getting my MBA --- I'm pretty sure that one will be pretty damn important too.
Gonna get my Doctorate after that... probably for shits and giggles, cause at that point, the University will be offering me free / reduced tuition. You are envied!
Honestly, congrats that's pretty awesome.
Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 21617
New York, New York, US
Model Sarah wrote:
I'm going into the culinary world, and while I would love to attend culinary school I simply cannot afford it. I'll keep being debt-free and teach myself everything I need to know. Luckily the internet and those old things called books are kinda neat. I was an extra on Bobby Flay recently and watching people cook was really, REALLY fun!
Makes me want to make Linguine and clams now.
Model
Model Sarah
Posts: 40987
Columbus, Ohio, US
Jules NYC wrote:
I was an extra on Bobby Flay recently and watching people cook was really, REALLY fun!
Makes me want to make Linguine and clams now. It's a passion that runs through my veins. I can't describe how zen it makes me and at the same time I'm learning science and creating art/yummy things. It's really awesome. I started a food blog the other day because my schtick is gourmet cooking on a low budget. It's a lot easier than people think it is. The same with cooking itself.
Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 21617
New York, New York, US
Model Sarah wrote:
It's a passion that runs through my veins. I can't describe how zen it makes me and at the same time I'm learning science and creating art/yummy things. It's really awesome. I started a food blog the other day because my schtick is gourmet cooking on a low budget. It's a lot easier than people think it is. The same with cooking itself. Cooking is definitely an art.
Think about penning a book. Good food is expensive, gourmet eating on a budget is appealing to most.
A zillion and one cookbooks out there but hey, brand yourself:)
Just a thought
Model
Model Sarah
Posts: 40987
Columbus, Ohio, US
Jules NYC wrote:
Cooking is definitely an art.
Think about penning a book. Good food is expensive, gourmet eating on a budget is appealing to most.
A zillion and one cookbooks out there but hey, brand yourself:)
Just a thought You're the 5th person in a week that has suggested that. Perhaps I shall look into it more..
Photographer
Jerry Nemeth
Posts: 33355
Dearborn, Michigan, US
Model Sarah wrote:
Yeah except the majority of Americans can barely afford to keep themselves afloat, much less create a trust fund for their kids. Cost of living and averages wages aren't mutually exclusive anymore. That started changing about 20 years ago. Most people I know with degrees aren't working in fields that their degree is in and a lot can't nail a job that is financially worth it. So, they are underpaid or unemployed. There is no such thing as the middle class anymore so people cannot afford college. College tuition is on the rise (because it is unfortunately a business like everything else is here) and people are either going into debt for nothing or they are not being educated. Talk about a lose/lose situation.
I'm going into the culinary world, and while I would love to attend culinary school I simply cannot afford it. I'll keep being debt-free and teach myself everything I need to know. Luckily the internet and those old things called books are kinda neat. We have the Michigan Education Trust to save money for your child's education.
https://www.michigan.gov/setwithmet
Photographer
Old Ska Punk
Posts: 2677
Crivitz, Wisconsin, US
Shot By Adam wrote:
If you've ever watched Mike Rowe (from Dirty Jobs) lecture, he's a huge advocate for this. There are entire industries in this country that are severely lacking quality employees and are paying through the nose to get them. Everything from welders to technical mechanics and so forth. I have a summer cottage up north in Wisconsin, near the Marinette ship yards. Three of my neighbors work there. They all have big beautiful homes, boats, snowmobiles, ATV's and all the toys. Two are welders. One is an electrician.
The shipyard is in dire need for welders. They can't find qualified workers. Yet, the local high school doesn't even teach welding anymore, and the push is for everyone to go to college. Seems like the schools are wasting an opportunity.
Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 21617
New York, New York, US
Model Sarah wrote:
You're the 5th person in a week that has suggested that. Perhaps I shall look into it more.. Awesome!
Photographer
rfordphotos
Posts: 8866
Antioch, California, US
First, I went to college in the early 70's. A different world. I was able to get a scholarship that covered the majority of my costs, my savings from summer jobs, and part time jobs in school--as well as some significant help from my parents covered the rest. I took a break before finishing to go to Vietnam, then came back and changed degree directions before finishing. But a LOT of things have changed since then in the way we pay for higher education. My best friend's daughter was a straight A student thru high school and a deans list student thru her BS degree as well as her MS. She got financial aid from several sources, scholarships and grants...and loans. By the time she left school (just short of her doctorate) she had racked up nearly $100,000 dollars of loan debt. Now, she works a full time corporate job, and to pay down her debt, she teaches part time at the university. By the same token, her cousin finished his MS with less than $11,000 debt. He didnt go to Ivy league schools, he was an average student in an average state college. He also has a good full time corporate job, and paid down his loan in less than 4 years. There is an interesting article in the NYTimes online today: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/24/upsho … v=top-news "The deeply indebted college graduate has become a stock character in the national conversation: the art history major with $50,000 in debt, the underemployed barista with $75,000, the struggling poet with $100,000. The anecdotes have created the impression that such high levels of student debt are typical. But they’re not. They are outliers, and they’re warping our understanding of bigger economic problems. In fact, the share of income that young adults are devoting to loan repayment has remained fairly steady over the last two decades, according to data the Brookings Institutions is releasing on Tuesday. Only 7 percent of young-adult households with education debt have $50,000 or more of it. By contrast, 58 percent of such households have less than $10,000 in debt, and an additional 18 percent have between $10,000 and $20,000." ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The article goes MUCH further in analyzing the nature and causes of student debt. I found it informative, and a view of the problem I had not seen before. Read it if you have time.
Photographer
MerrillMedia
Posts: 8736
New Orleans, Louisiana, US
By today's standards, my college debt was very small. My parents helped, but I had GI Bill and I worked. I landed a well paying job before I graduated. I also managed to become a licensed commercial pilot along the way and that helped me land a job with a major airline.
When I arrived in NY for that first job, the company put me up in a hotel for a month, so that I had time to find an apartment. Companies actually did things like that in those days. I looked for and found the cheapest apartment available (it was a wreck, but I fixed it up), so that I could start paying off school loans, buy furniture, etc. The bank was thrilled because I began payments immediately and doubled up on them. I don't remember how long it took me, but I think it was around two years.
When I look at what college students are experiencing these days, it makes me sick. I think Mark Cuban is right, but only partially so - it isn't just the availability of government backed loans that has been responsible for ballooning education costs - greed plays a huge factor. You can say that colleges raise fees to obscene levels because the government will make the money available. but if you do so, you ignore the fact that those institutions are gaming the system.
Whether we see the "market correction" that Cuban predicts remains to be seen, but I hope he is right. I also hope that business across the spectrum begin to understand that while profit is necessary and a perfectly acceptable goal, obtaining it in an irresponsible and morally bankrupt way, is not acceptable.
Photographer
Robb Mann
Posts: 12327
Baltimore, Maryland, US
Student loans are one of those areas that other countries seem to understand better than we do. I'm sure at some point in time it was a good program, but years of federal meddling has torqued it into the present form.
It's a complex issue, for certain, but it's made worse by the lack of a meaningful concept/goal for the program.
The US is facing, or already in the middle of a crisis caused by the lack of skilled workers in certain areas -engineers, doctors, nurses, scientists. Meanwhile, we are drowning in lawyers, and likely in history majors and English lit majors. Why not incentivize student loans to match career fields based on the greater need? Want to be a lawyer? That'll be a 10% APR loan. A doctor or scientist? 0.5% APR and loan cancelation if you work for 10 years in your career field.
Photographer
Al Lock Photography
Posts: 17024
Bangkok, Bangkok, Thailand
MerrillMedia wrote:
it isn't just the availability of government backed loans that has been responsible for ballooning education costs - greed plays a huge factor. You can say that colleges raise fees to obscene levels because the government will make the money available. but if you do so, you ignore the fact that those institutions are gaming the system.
Whether we see the "market correction" that Cuban predicts remains to be seen, but I hope he is right. I also hope that business across the spectrum begin to understand that while profit is necessary and a perfectly acceptable goal, obtaining it in an irresponsible and morally bankrupt way, is not acceptable. But it is reality.
This is the problem. Greed is a working part of the world. No way around it. And government money being available triggers that greed - even from people who would never take from another person, they will happily take from the government. The disconnect of course is that every penny taken from the government is a penny taken out of our pockets (or our children or grandchildren's pockets). It isn't free money - but that is how it is treated. By pretty much everybody.
Model
Model MoRina
Posts: 6640
MacMurdo - permanent station of the US, Sector claimed by New Zealand, Antarctica
rfordphotos wrote:
First, I went to college in the early 70's. A different world.
I was able to get a scholarship that covered the majority of my costs, my savings from summer jobs, and part time jobs in school--as well as some significant help from my parents covered the rest. I took a break before finishing to go to Vietnam, then came back and changed degree directions before finishing.
But a LOT of things have changed since then in the way we pay for higher education.
My best friend's daughter was a straight A student thru high school and a deans list student thru her BS degree as well as her MS. She got financial aid from several sources, scholarships and grants...and loans. By the time she left school (just short of her doctorate) she had racked up nearly $100,000 dollars of loan debt. Now, she works a full time corporate job, and to pay down her debt, she teaches part time at the university.
By the same token, her cousin finished his MS with less than $11,000 debt. He didnt go to Ivy league schools, he was an average student in an average state college. He also has a good full time corporate job, and paid down his loan in less than 4 years.
There is an interesting article in the NYTimes online today:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/24/upsho … v=top-news
"The deeply indebted college graduate has become a stock character in the national conversation: the art history major with $50,000 in debt, the underemployed barista with $75,000, the struggling poet with $100,000.
The anecdotes have created the impression that such high levels of student debt are typical. But they’re not. They are outliers, and they’re warping our understanding of bigger economic problems.
In fact, the share of income that young adults are devoting to loan repayment has remained fairly steady over the last two decades, according to data the Brookings Institutions is releasing on Tuesday. Only 7 percent of young-adult households with education debt have $50,000 or more of it. By contrast, 58 percent of such households have less than $10,000 in debt, and an additional 18 percent have between $10,000 and $20,000."
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The article goes MUCH further in analyzing the nature and causes of student debt. I found it informative, and a view of the problem I had not seen before.
Read it if you have time. +1
There are alternatives to 60K/year schools.
I graduated from Western Governors University for my Bachelor of Science degree. I had done my Associates at Univserity of Phoenix to the tune of 15K/year. WGU is a non-profit university and is just under 3K for a 6 month term, and you can take as many classes during the 6 months as you can pass.
http://www.wgu.edu/tuition_financial_aid/tuition
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