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A suggestion for the newbie photogs...
GWC wrote: TOUCHE!!!!!! Aug 31 05 07:40 pm Link XtremeArtists wrote: You say that as if it's a bad thing. Aug 31 05 10:58 pm Link i use both film and digital, although i shoot with my digital the most. i am still using my nikon cp995...it's only 3.2mp. i also shoot with a minolta xe-5 35 mm. that camera is as old as me. it doesn't matter what you shoot with. my equipment is totally out dated, i can't afford anything else right now. it doesn't matter if i pick up my 35mm or my digital.....the same heart goes into it. who cares what you shoot with and what you learned with. it's a tired subject. i just want to take pictures. Aug 31 05 11:26 pm Link Alot of this comes down to what you all perceive is a good photography and the execution of the shot. Do any of you have the best eye? What makes your eyes better than someone elses? I thought artists were supposed to be open-minded creatures. Yes, mistakes are made more frequent by the new ones to the medium (as I make them all the time). However, it sounds like a bunch of children in this forum. Digital is better. NO! Film is better. Wah Wah Wah! Stop the bickering, use constructive criticism, talk civilized, and shoot more photos and execute the shot with the time and energy you're spending like a bunch of musicians wanking over a guitar solo in a song. Let all the stones start to be thrown. Plus, I'll take any personal criticism from anyone through a message. Sep 02 05 09:13 am Link There are pros and cons on both. I learned to shoot with a Pentax slr as a kid. Then I moved up to a Canon AE that was loaned to me by a friend. Shortley after I grasped photography by the horns i purchased a used Nikon FM2 that I still have today. In 99 I purchased the Nikon N70 which I have many many miles with. I love both the FM2 (for its ruggedness) and the N70 (for its speed and ttl abilities). Recently I have purchased the D70 and will be using that along with my N70. I am not totally digital, but it does provide more bang for the buck. I am not sure how much can be learned from just buying a digi SLR compared to the work that I have done in the past in the darkroom with the older slrs I used. But we all have to enter photography at some level. I just love to shoot and love to share my work. http://www.halliganbar.com/gallery http://www.warrentonfire.org/gallery http://www.bluegrassuniverse.com/gallery Sep 02 05 10:42 am Link I agree with Ben and Photo. Sep 02 05 10:50 am Link Lesley Slenning wrote: GWC wrote: Does anything else need to be said on this matter? Sep 02 05 11:00 am Link John Jebbia wrote: Funny you should mention this! I have been a film shooter for a long time and recently started using digital. I put my 120 film camera down for a couple of months, and when I came back to it I messed up my first few rolls of film! Turns out that in my brief intro to digital I quickly became used to the idea of multiple shots and "fix it in PS" mentality. I agree with the idea that new shooters should pick up a film camera, especially a medium format one! Sep 02 05 09:41 pm Link having worked for Kodak, i was able to see into the future...shooters and purists who insist on shooting soley with film will be like the highly qualified horseshoe blacksmith watching the model T's drive by their shoppe. Sep 17 05 03:14 pm Link Funny even back when I shot 35mm film I never worried about how much film I used. For the most part I used either HP-5 or HP-4 which I bought in Bulk and procesed first in my bathroom Darkroom and later on in the Hobby Center on Post. I can remember numerous weekends shooting 10-20 rolls or film and then spending the next few weeks processing and printing. There use to be a saying in photography "film is cheap" and I still believe that in fact I have a shoot planned for next weekend that I've got 15 rolls of Medium Format Pan-F set a side for. I may use all 15 rolls I may not depends on the flow of the shoot as I mostly shoot from feel. IE I see something I like I press the shutter. BTW: I don't fix stuff in post even in digital if the image isn't with in 1/2 stop of the correct exposure and doesn't look good in ACR at 100% without sharpening I don't even bother to process it. Sep 17 05 05:04 pm Link I'm a newbie - and I have a film camera.... It makes a great paperweight... Point Line Form, shape and space Movement Color Pattern Texture Beyond film or digital if you don't know and employ the most basic principals of design - then you will never produce a viable image - no matter what the medium you choose to use film or digital, paint brush or camera... The tools used don't define the image maker - just the final image... My advice as a newbie to those that are "pros"... It's okay to embrace something new - a change...  HAPPY SHOOTING!!!!! & HAPPY LEARNING!!! Sep 17 05 05:05 pm Link my personal opinion its akin to having a F-18 pilot learn to fly a bi-plane first just to learn aerodynamics Sep 19 05 11:51 am Link What really makes a good photographer is efficiency. So let beginner digital photographers use digital to learn. The photographers that already understand how light and optics work will be on the computer for 2 min to fix very minor things. The others will spend an hour. Film teaches shooters to be more efficient at the computer. Film isn't needed to become more efficient, however, what will be needed will be more hours in front of a computer screen. Sep 19 05 12:01 pm Link Keith aka Wolfie wrote: YES! Sep 19 05 12:26 pm Link film is dead... get over it... digital will surpass film quality soon... Sep 19 05 12:29 pm Link John Jebbia wrote: I don't agree that you MUST start with film. Sep 19 05 12:32 pm Link XtremeArtists wrote: Or limit yourself to shooting raw and only carry a set number of 128 or 256 mb cards...with no deleteing in camera.... Sep 19 05 12:52 pm Link I have been thinking about this as I read the thread and I believe I was a better photorapher with film, but it had nothing to do with film vs digital. I believe the difference was the camera, but I can hear the objections coming so I will have to explain. I started with a used Nikon F3 because the high eyepoint finder worked so much better with glasses than the more traditional FM2. I also started with a 50mm lens, because that is just how you started back then. I thought about shutter speed, aperature, and focus on every shot because I set them myself. I had center weighted metering, so I metered off a known surface and then applied a little zone system like adjustment if the surface was close to 18% gray. I couldn't depend on wide or telephoto perspectives to create interest, so I had to really had to experiment with composition to get any thing decent with the 50mm. I think the best learning tool would be a manual camera with digital capture... then you could think about the shot and immediately see if you got your shot. And yes, I can put my 10D in manual... but the viewfinder is still tiny the controls are not as intuitive as a manual camera and manual focus is not very practical. Sep 19 05 01:09 pm Link Yes I agree. I'm a new photographer. I also think Its best to stay away from photoshop unless you want a more artistic photo! I can't aford a decent digital anyway lol! ~Kel Sep 19 05 02:05 pm Link I learned by using film and doing my own darkroom work. I think it made me appreciate digital photography and photoshop a lot more than if I had started that way. I still use meduim format film cameras for my landscape work but I have moved to digital for work with models. I love digital but I am really glad I got my foundation that old fashion way Sep 19 05 02:21 pm Link John Jebbia wrote: This is a long thread, and I must admit I haven't read every reply so this may have already been stated, if not... Sep 19 05 02:36 pm Link I actually learned how to do photography earlier this year as a part of a school assignment, and I started with film. Lemme tell ya, those first few rolls were horrible! I couldn't load the film properly, I had a hard time understanding shutter speed and all the technical aspects, I was never certain if my photos were going to come out well... But I loved every part of shooting with film. Loved it! Yes, it was expensive and difficult, but the end result was so much more rewarding to me. When I finally shot a picture that was worth a damn, I was so proud of myself. I own a digital camera now, and while I really like having it (it has quite a few interesting features, and it is nice for vactions and whatnot), shooting with that is not the same as shooting with film. I love the element of surprise you have when you shoot with film... Yeah, it can be nice to get results immediately, but I found that I learned so much better when money and supplies were on the line. Anyway, to the point, I agree with you. It's not elitist - It really is a very good learning experience. Sep 19 05 02:46 pm Link On this issue there is no across the board "right way" to learn to be a photographer, or "right way" to learn to to take good images. Time, finances and personality of that person would all factor in. Theres advantages and disadvaneges to both sides of the argument,,, that being said, what the hell is this "film" you all speak of anyway?? Sep 19 05 03:08 pm Link |
