davew wrote:
We all get flaked on get used to it,, You need to grow up. she said she took a wrong train and instead of being professional and waiting for her you kept drilling her with negative bull crap. Reading your so called story I would have told you to piss off also as you are whining like a little girl over a train issue...

if she did finally show up you would  have been the condescending ASS you seem to be and the shoot would have went bad anyway..

I had 4 yes 4 shoots from here last weekend, I had one set up for yesterday.. the model cancelled BIG DEAL!!!
She did as i asked and if something came up give me 2 hours notice..  We talked on the phone like adults and rescheduled for next week it was done professionally..

Sell the gear if you can't handle real life it was a free shoot get over it..

The OP had every reason to be irritated.   TF shoot or not it was the model who asked to photographed.   Personally when she said she couldn't make it for 2:00pm I would have canceled the session.   Going forward OP get a actual phone number.   Once models start moving shoot times things usually don't go well.   I know its difficult but try not to lose your temper.   Consider that this was a model from Thailand and may not have been familiar with directions, etc.   In future maybe consider traveling to them.   Now to the person who posted what was in my opinion is insulting and not helpful.   While many of us  get flaked on this wasn't that.   There was no need to name call or infer the OP was childish.   

You referenced a model who canceled.   That's fine but in this case the OP was waiting for the model and I understand why he was angry.   We need less insults and more thinking solutions on MM.   Your input was unhelpful and rude.

Black Z Eddie wrote:
I've learned if the model is having a hard time getting to or finding the location....YOU go to them.

Yeah, except it's a location shoot, so we have to shoot at a specific location, therefore, she has to get there on her own, I can't take a train to go pick her up and take her to the location, she is not a child (she came to Japan from Thailand by herself) so she should be able to handle the trains here, also it wasn't her first time in Tokyo either.

Secondly, we agreed to the specific train station at least 3 days in advance and she has more than enough time to check the correct time, or the train schedule and make sure she is not on the wrong train. There's almost no reason for her to take the wrong train, it just means she is careless, likely to flake again on other people and has NO respect for other people's time or schedule. Why schedule a time to meet if she'll show up whenever she wants anyways?

PIEntertainment wrote:
I add her last night and this morning she sends me a message at 10 am to say she is still busy at her previous job and she won't be able to make it home till noon and then she has to shower and get dressed and can't come to our meeting place until 2 pm.

You should have cancelled the shoot at that point

Hunter  GWPB wrote:
What is line?  A message app?  Why would you communicate via message if you had a phone available.  .

no kidding.. people use a phone for everything but talking on

shesh.most nonsense could be figured out if people just talked to each otehr

Black Z Eddie wrote:
I've learned if the model is having a hard time getting to or finding the location....YOU go to them.

Stay where you are...I WILL FIND YOU!



hahahahahah

Black Z Eddie wrote:
I've learned if the model is having a hard time getting to or finding the location....YOU go to them.

PIEntertainment wrote:
Yeah, except it's a location shoot, so we have to shoot at a specific location, therefore, she has to get there on her own, I can't take a train to go pick her up and take her to the location, she is not a child (she came to Japan from Thailand by herself) so she should be able to handle the trains here, also it wasn't her first time in Tokyo either.

Secondly, we agreed to the specific train station at least 3 days in advance and she has more than enough time to check the correct time, or the train schedule and make sure she is not on the wrong train. There's almost no reason for her to take the wrong train, it just means she is careless, likely to flake again on other people and has NO respect for other people's time or schedule. Why schedule a time to meet if she'll show up whenever she wants anyways?

At the end of day, what did you accomplish? 

And, let me get this straight, she traveled this just to shoot with you...and....for TFP?  You couldn't be bothered?  Yeah, nooooo, I don't think she's the one acting like a child.

Black Z Eddie wrote:

Black Z Eddie wrote:
I've learned if the model is having a hard time getting to or finding the location....YOU go to them.

At the end of day, what did you accomplish? 

And, let me get this straight, she traveled this just to shoot with you...and....for TFP?  You couldn't be bothered?  Yeah, nooooo, I don't think she's the one acting like a child.

I didn't see where the OP said the model traveled from Thailand to work with him just that she was there.   Perhaps I missed it though.   Can you post where he claimed that.   I read she is a traveling model but again I may have missed what you've said.   If she is a traveling model it will be important that she know where she is going especially for any paid work.   Certainly the OP could have handled things better.   We can't change the past but we can learn from it.   The model didn't act like a child however she agreed to a time and place.   Then changed that time only to later get lost  getting to the OP and because he expressed some irritation says she'll go shopping instead.   That would piss me off.

Maybe the model won't flake on others but if what was posted was accurate shows a person perhaps less then mindful of other people's time.

goofus  wrote:

no kidding.. people use a phone for everything but talking on

shesh.most nonsense could be figured out if people just talked to each otehr

This
+1000
No call No Shoot

goofus  wrote:
Stay where you are...I WILL FIND YOU!



hahahahahah

Cant post pics anymore with new "Upgrade" it seems

Herman Surkis wrote:
I have to flip this.

I had a coffee meet with a model I met on MM, to decide if we have compatible ideas.

Guess what, she is now insisting on meeting photographers before putting in any effort for a shoot. Can you guess why?
She has been flaked on.
She has traveled from Victoria to Vancouver, which is 4-5 hours of time if you include all the travel time, to have the photographer not show up. According to her she has been flaked on 3 times in the last year, and has had photographers disappear into the woodwork in the middle of discussions.

May not happen as often to models, but it was interesting hearing the other side. Admittedly I am only getting one side of the story.

I disappear into woodwork when discussions go in a unacceptable direction like
"My excon BF will be coming to TF shoot and making all creative decisions"

Leo Howard wrote:
Okay, so, I gotta ask about that 4pm appointment that you had to cancel because your model was running late, were they upset that you cancelled on them? just curious

It was my friend that I wanted to meet with to discuss some business that day, so it wasn't a "serious" thing but also it put me back another week from getting a chance to meet with him to have that discussion. We are both very busy so having to cancel that day's meeting basically meant we would have to wait a while to get together and talk again.

If it was a more "serious" appointment, of course, I would've canceled the photo shoot with the model when she told me in the morning that she can't make it for 12 pm and we will have to meet at 2 pm instead.

As for the other people's comments the model DID NOT travel to Japan to shoot with me, she is here on vacation or who knows why and she messaged me about my casting call for models (about a week before she came here) and asked to do a photo shoot with me WHILE she is here, doing whatever it is that she came here to do for a week.

Tony Lawrence wrote:

I didn't see where the OP said the model traveled from Thailand to work with him just that she was there.   Perhaps I missed it though.   Can you post where he claimed that.   I read she is a traveling model but again I may have missed what you've said.   If she is a traveling model it will be important that she know where she is going especially for any paid work.   Certainly the OP could have handled things better.   We can't change the past but we can learn from it.   The model didn't act like a child however she agreed to a time and place.   Then changed that time only to later get lost  getting to the OP and because he expressed some irritation says she'll go shopping instead.   That would piss me off.

Maybe the model won't flake on others but if what was posted was accurate shows a person perhaps less then mindful of other people's time.

I would agree with your analogy, I think he could have handle things a little differently and words should have been better said.  I have had model's arrive late to shoots, did not get the amount of time in that I wanted, but we in up really clicking and got some great shots in a short period of time.

But in all due respect, professionalism should always be practice whether it is TFP or NOT for either side.  She contacted the OP and obviously had the necessary time to plan her route or get assistance.  He had every right in my opinion to be upset, she should have been more mindful or thoughtful of his time.

But, NO she would not ever get on my calendar again!  A learning experience for sure, but if you gonna work with model's be prepared, it goes both ways!

Black Z Eddie wrote:
You know, in these types threads, "professionalism" and "being on time" usually gets brought up.  But, I think some people are missing another main component, handling it like a professional when things go sideways.  It's just as important, if not more important.

A couple of months ago, I had scheduled an 8 am on location shoot.  I chose this time since I've never shot at this location so didn't want to take a chance on the sun being above us.  The model gets lost and texts then calls me.  I waited and waited, and, finally just told her to text me the address she sees and I'll come get her.  We get back to the shoot location a little after 10 am.  The sun is now pretty high up.

Rather than whine about it, we did this:
https://i.imgur.com/nEgRypS.jpg  +18

Instead of crying about it, we did this:
https://i.imgur.com/1RHuQGx.jpg + 18

Instead of looking to lay blame, we did this:
https://i.imgur.com/4mZaB8I.jpg +18

Things didn't start the way I planned, but, we made it work.

While those are solid images I believe the OP said it was getting dark.   Your photos were taken during the morning.   Perhaps not at the optimum time but with plenty of natural light.   Further your model and you were texting each other so clearly you had a phone number and you weren't using a app.    https://line.me/en/   My guess is your model wasn't using public transportation either.   Its nice that you took the time to share the nudes.   What wasn't so nice is you also took the time to put the OP down.   Again we need positive solutions and ideas.   Going forward as I said, get a actual number.   Make sure models know how to use the train or bus.   Perhaps meeting them at their location.

From what I gather Japan has a large and somewhat complicated train and bus service however it is very fast and there are plenty of people who can help travelers.   I think there is a good chance this model may not have actually been on it at all.   In any case thanks for the photo upload.

Tony Lawrence wrote:
While those are solid images I believe the OP said it was getting dark.   Your photos were taken during the morning.   Perhaps not at the optimum time but with plenty of natural light.   Further your model and you were texting each other so clearly you had a phone number and you weren't using a app.    https://line.me/en/   My guess is your model wasn't using public transportation either.   Its nice that you took the time to share the nudes.   What wasn't so nice is you also took the time to put the OP down.   Again we need positive solutions and ideas.   Going forward as I said, get a actual number.   Make sure models know how to use the train or bus.   Perhaps meeting them at their location.

From what I gather Japan has a large and somewhat complicated train and bus service however it is very fast and there are plenty of people who can help travelers.   I think there is a good chance this model may not have actually been on it at all.   In any case thanks for the photo upload.

Yeah, I think you missed my point entirely.  And, you're doing exactly what I point against....making excuses.

--if it's getting dark, then, shoot somewhere where there's light.  It's freakin' Tokyo.  Adapt, improvise, and conquer.
--what do you think texting is?  Most people are just using their native apps from their phones.  Texting is texting.
--that Line app also has free phone and video calls.  Calling is calling.
--I wasn't putting the OP down.  I'm just not an enabler of people who whine and with their stickler wannabe-macho-I'm-a-Professional rules then complain when something goes wrong.  They make no reasonable effort to make sure the shoot happens.

Listen, at the end of day, OP lost out on a shoot and missed a meeting with his friend, which now he as to wait another 2 weeks.  All because of why?  He wanted to stick to his guns, "model should get there on her own", knowing full well she's lost.

Tony Lawrence wrote:
In any case thanks for the photo upload.

Sharing is caring! 

Black Z Eddie wrote:

Yeah, I think you missed my point entirely.  And, you're doing exactly what I point against....making excuses.

--if it's getting dark, then, shoot somewhere where there's light.  It's freakin' Tokyo.  Adapt, improvise, and conquer.
--what do you think texting is?  Most people are just using their native apps from their phones.  Texting is texting.
--that Line app also has free phone and video calls.  Calling is calling.
--I wasn't putting the OP down.  I'm just not an enabler of people who whine and with their stickler wannabe-macho-I'm-a-Professional rules then complain when something goes wrong.  They make no reasonable effort to make sure the shoot happens.

Listen, at the end of day, OP lost out on a shoot and missed a meeting with his friend, which now he as to wait another 2 weeks.  All because of why?  He wanted to stick to his guns, "model should get there on her own", knowing full well she's lost.


Sharing is caring! 

PIEntertainment wrote:
<snip>

So, I live in Tokyo and there's a traveling model from Thailand who messaged me about MY casting call for a TF outdoor fashion photo shoot.
<snip>
So, I tell her that she will not get here until 3 pm maybe and that's already 3 hrs past our original meeting time and even 1 hr past the postponed time, the weather is getting worse, the sun is disappearing and it will start to get dark around 4:30 pm.
<snip>

-
There still would have been and hour and a half before sunset.  It isn't dark at sunset.  Could they have used street lights and store lighting?  Don't know.  The OP hasn't provided any other details.  We don't know if the shoot is on a street or in an abandoned factory or a forest. 
https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/japan/tokyo

I may be mistaken, but I have thought that the end of the day is a good time to shoot.  But you guys are pros.  You know better than me. 

The OP also said the weather was getting worse.  Unfortunately, he didn't say how.  Was the wind coming up hard?  Or was it getting dark because the clouds were thick?  Was there (or about to be) a light drizzle or a freakin deluge?  Again, you guys are the pros, but I like shooting when it is overcast and the sunlight is diffused.

It is possible that some of the day could have been salvaged?  Even if it was a one hour shoot, after blowing the afternoon, why not do what you can?   The OP complained about the money lost on the train fare, but the shoot was TF.  He really wasn't anymore invested than she was.  He set his priorities: The meeting or the shoot.  The model couldn't change the shoot time without his permission.

We also don't know if the model had an evening shoot scheduled.  If she did, why screw up the arrangements for that one as well?  The afternoon shoot already went South.

Tony Lawrence wrote:

LOL, is there a reason why you're vigorously speaking for the OP?   Unlike the model, he's able to make his own case here. 

Tony Lawrence wrote:
I'm guessing the model is an adult.   Part of being one is getting where one needs to go on time.   Especially given someone is waiting for you.   This especially given SHE moved the shoot time.

What is this, guidance counseling?  OP accepted the new time.  Rescheduling is nothing new.  It happens everywhere every time.  It happens with small businesses, it happens with large corporations.  Either accept it or reject.  If you accept, don't use it as a platform to whine later down the road.

This especially given SHE reached out to the OP.

You make it sound like she contacted him out of the blue to shoot.  No, she applied for the OP's casting call:  "there's a traveling model from Thailand who messaged me about MY casting call"

Difficult to do with a session where natural light is too be used when its dark.   Its not clear if the OP had portable lights or flash but if the shoot is based on natural light as was yours its hard to do when there isn't any.

Wrong.  It wasn't dark yet.  They could have had an hour and half, at least.  You could do a lot in that time.

He made several attempts at making the shoot happen.   Didn't you see where the model moved the shoot time two hours later.

You're joking right?  "Several attempts"?  Didn't you see where he accepted the new shoot time?  Put on your big boy pants because that is now the new starting time.  Anything before that is moot.

It's hilarious how you're so hung up on the model moving the shoot time like it's some smoking gun against her.  lol

Texting apps are not like having a actual cell number.

How do you figure?  I'm assuming you're referring to the LINE app.  The LINE app sends text.  A traditional text app (using your cell number) sends text.  The LINE app has the ability to make voice/video calls, so can a traditional text app.

In my world I hold adults accountable for scheduled shoots and commitments.   That includes pretty girls and guys.   I arrive on time for shoots unless I have an emergency.   I use Google to research where I'm going.

In my world, I don't wanna hear no bitchin' over trivial issues, especially if you're a grown-ass adult.  Especially, if you try to tout yourself a professional.  Just handle it.

What disturbs me is how so many photographers excuse goofiness as long as its shooting a model.

What's even more disturbing are photographers who claim to be professionals and adults, but, throw a tantrum when things don't go their way.  Even more (yes, more) disturbing are these same photographers who defend their kind of photographers when they walk away from a shoot and then start another model flake thread:

"I told her that I'm leaving the station, I've already waited for 40 mins for her only to have her argue with me about time and other things using LINE."

It didn't have to happen this way.  It was the OP's casting call.  He's the organizer, even a project lead if you will.  It's his responsibility to make the shoot happen, within reason.  And, he failed. 

Can you explain what he could have done differently beyond expressing some irritation.

I already did explain:

https://www.modelmayhem.com/forums/post … st19773304
https://www.modelmayhem.com/forums/post … st19774133
https://www.modelmayhem.com/forums/post … st19774169

Black Z Eddie wrote:

Tony Lawrence wrote:

LOL, is there a reason why you're vigorously speaking for the OP?   Unlike the model, he's able to make his own case here. 

Tony Lawrence wrote:
I'm guessing the model is an adult.   Part of being one is getting where one needs to go on time.   Especially given someone is waiting for you.   This especially given SHE moved the shoot time.

What is this, guidance counseling?  OP accepted the new time.  Rescheduling is nothing new.  It happens everywhere every time.  It happens with small businesses, it happens with large corporations.  Either accept it or reject.  If you accept, don't use it as a platform to whine later down the road.

This especially given SHE reached out to the OP.

You make it sound like she contacted him out of the blue to shoot.  No, she applied for the OP's casting call:  "there's a traveling model from Thailand who messaged me about MY casting call"

Difficult to do with a session where natural light is too be used when its dark.   Its not clear if the OP had portable lights or flash but if the shoot is based on natural light as was yours its hard to do when there isn't any.

Wrong.  It wasn't dark yet.  They could have had an hour and half, at least.  You could do a lot in that time.

He made several attempts at making the shoot happen.   Didn't you see where the model moved the shoot time two hours later.

You're joking right?  "Several attempts"?  Didn't you see where he accepted the new shoot time?  Put on your big boy pants because that is now the new starting time.  Anything before that is moot.

It's hilarious how you're so hung up on the model moving the shoot time like it's some smoking gun against her.  lol

Texting apps are not like having a actual cell number.

How do you figure?  I'm assuming you're referring to the LINE app.  The LINE app sends text.  A traditional text app (using your cell number) sends text.  The LINE app has the ability to make voice/video calls, so can a traditional text app.

In my world I hold adults accountable for scheduled shoots and commitments.   That includes pretty girls and guys.   I arrive on time for shoots unless I have an emergency.   I use Google to research where I'm going.

In my world, I don't wanna hear no bitchin' over trivial issues, especially if you're a grown-ass adult.  Especially, if you try to tout yourself a professional.  Just handle it.

What disturbs me is how so many photographers excuse goofiness as long as its shooting a model.

What's even more disturbing are photographers who claim to be professionals and adults, but, throw a tantrum when things don't go their way.  Even more (yes, more) disturbing are these same photographers who defend their kind of photographers when they walk away from a shoot and then start another model flake thread:

"I told her that I'm leaving the station, I've already waited for 40 mins for her only to have her argue with me about time and other things using LINE."

It didn't have to happen this way.  It was the OP's casting call.  He's the organizer, even a project lead if you will.  It's his responsibility to make the shoot happen, within reason.  And, he failed. 


I already did explain:

https://www.modelmayhem.com/forums/post … st19773304
https://www.modelmayhem.com/forums/post … st19774133
https://www.modelmayhem.com/forums/post … st19774169

The OP explained why going to the model wasn't something he could do.   Here's the deal.   What bothers is are members like you who make it their business to shi% on others.   I said the OP could have handled things better but his reaction was totally human.   You decided to post some nudes while patting yourself on the back.   Look at me everyone.   I made a session work when the model came late.   Bully for you but as I noted YOUR model wasn't using public transportation from what I guess and while the shoot happened later then you'd like you still had a FULL day of sunshine while the OP did not.

Several years ago a Chicago then unknown director had a casting for a unpaid internship.   I wrote him and asked could I be a part of his project.   He agreed and the day I was supposed to come had to cancel last minute.   Truthfully I could have made it and I bet the man felt that as well.   When you ask to be a part of someones project you in my view must do everything in your power to make it.   It wasn't on the director nor was it on the OP.   She asked to shoot.   Here from what I see the model basically blew the OP off especially when he showed some irritation.   Hey, I'll go shopping since you're a bit peeved....

I value my time.   I wouldn't have waited ten minutes nor would I allow a model to move a location shoot hours later when it was she who asked to shoot.   However this is becoming more about us and the OP can certainly speak for himself.   As for me.   Ask me to shoot I expect you to be prompt and come ready to shoot.   In return I either pay or provide photos well before the promised time.    The director I flaked on has gone on to lots of cool projects.