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“Whipping it Out”
I was working with an MM Newbie recently, and I asked her how her experience had been so far. “Pretty good I guess, except for a few creeps.” She had worked with about a dozen or so photographers, and on her very first shoot, the guy “whipped it out.” Another guy who seemed competent and professional gave her a ride home and “tweaked” her nipples before she could get out of the car. Another guy got all pouty when the model insisted she could put the baby oil on herself. And just for good measure, there was the other guy who “whipped it out.” I asked her, “Jeez, after all that, why are you still here?” She said, “3 out of 12. That’s 25&%— not a bad percentage, and I’m not gonna let a few creeps discourage me. And the other guys were fine.” I’d like to ask models, from your own experience, is her story typical? And I ask the question as it might pertain to newer models who may not have yet learned the ropes about screening out the pervs. Aug 05 19 11:48 pm Link So she has been sexually assaulted 3 times???? SMFH!!!! Tell her to file a police report Aug 06 19 07:19 am Link DanninTO wrote: Ditto. Aug 06 19 08:21 am Link The title of this posting reminded me immediately of the famous line in the movie "Blazing Saddles" where the sheriff politely says "Excuse me while I whip this out!" No one has the right to assume they can just whip it out when working with a model. That's just wrong on every level. As a model I have worked with plenty of GWC's, as well as professional and semi-pro photographers, not to mention artists of every skill level over the past 32+ years. There are a few jerks and creeps out there, no denying that, but the vast majority of them are OK and would never consider doing what you are reporting. In my discussions with other models I have known and worked with, and in messages from other people here on MM, I'd say that the number shouldn't be anywhere near 25%. I actually don't mind GWC's who are respectful because they pay nicely. I have even attended "photo day" at naturist resorts and been photographed by easily a couple hundred naked GWC's in one afternoon. Yes, there are some people who simply don't know how to behave themselves appropriately, and do or say creepy things while in the presence of models. Usually it catches up with them, and eventually no one will work with them because of that. But I'd say the number is significantly lower, maybe only a few percent at most. I have never had anyone whip it out that I can recall, and I think I would remember. I have had a photographer respectfully ask if it was OK for him to be at least partially undressed during a photo shoot in a very hot location on an August day. I readily agreed that was a reasonable request because there was no AC in the upstairs room, and it seemed fine to me so I told him he could get down to his underpants, or he could be naked and it wouldn't offend me. He didn't become erect, touch himself, or make any attempt to show off what he had, at any time while his clothes were off. I worked with him again after that and nothing happened, he didn't ask to be naked during the following photo sessions. I have also done multiple photo sessions over a few years time with a female photographer who was naked during every one of them after stating that was her preference during the second session we did together, again I told her it was fine if she would be more comfortable out of her clothes. Nothing ever happened. Aug 06 19 08:43 am Link Mature Model, thanks for your thoughtful and informative comment. Aug 06 19 09:15 am Link That reminds me of the Seinfeld episode when "He. Took. It. Out." Aug 06 19 09:26 am Link Our Member Safety page contains info for models to confidentially report incidents of unprofessional behavior, verbal or physical abuse or sexual assault. https://www.modelmayhem.com/education/member-safety Aug 06 19 09:35 am Link Unless I missed something the OP did not say that the photographers who were so grossly offensive were Mayhem members. I wold hope such behaviors are in the great minority by MM members. Aug 06 19 04:53 pm Link Weldphoto wrote: . They were Mayhem members. One, whose name I was familiar with, has a strong presence on Chicago MM. Aug 06 19 06:09 pm Link Yes, I've been in several creepy and dangerous situations with Model Mayhem 'photographers.' There are a lot of predators who attempt to lure women under the guise of being photographers. Aug 07 19 01:38 am Link aquarelle wrote: You can't out him so you are going to taint everyone from the area you mentioned? Aug 07 19 06:50 am Link The creeps and pervs make it nearly impossible to work sometimes. We seem to have to answer for their disgusting behavior. For some odd reason I feel more comfortable meeting a model for the first time when I see pepper spray dangling from her wrist.:-) Aug 07 19 07:10 am Link G Reese wrote: Unfortunately, hearing the reports of how a very few bad apples have caused problems is the exact reason that many of us, even those with decades of experience such as myself, will no longer do any modelling assignments without checking several recent references from other models and bringing along someone else for our safety. The only exception I'm willing to make is when I model in a college classroom or studio with the instructor overseeing, or a figure drawing session in an established art gallery setting which is attended by a number of people. Aug 07 19 07:15 am Link Hunter GWPB wrote: The intention of my post was to hear from models about their reflections on the experience that a new model shared with me. Aug 07 19 08:59 am Link Exposing oneself to another person like that is a crime. Plain and simple, no two ways about it. Whether you file a police report or not is up to you but what he did was a crime in every jurisdiction in the US. For real. Aug 07 19 09:06 am Link aquarelle wrote: I have no problem with your intentions. Only, maybe, the unintended consequences of the post I partially quoted. You don't see that, by that post, you have cast a shadow on every MM member that fits that criteria, and then some? It is enough to know we are talking about a MM member. We all know that creepers exist on the site. Nationwide. Worldwide. We could glean what city that the people under discussion are in, based on other information, such as your location, and we can guess the model is local to you because of the number of jobs she has had. However, there would be doubt associated with those conclusions and there is nothing else to narrow down whom is the accused. But, you made two points of identification very clear. Two points that can be associated with many people. How does each of them assure models reading this, or other professionals, that it is not they that are being disparaged? Aug 07 19 09:35 am Link 
Model Posts: 6638 MacMurdo - permanent station of the US, Sector claimed by New Zealand, Antarctica Sadly, bad behavior is common. It's worse when models are new, because the predators rush in to get to a model before she has the courage to say no and walk away. I have been here since 2008 and I am in my 50's and guys still think they can get away with that bs. Behavior that would be considered criminal also happens, yet models don't report things to the police because they don't want to go fill out a report that says "a guy I met online, whose real name I don't actually know, paid me to take my clothes off and take pictures of me." People seem to think the current climate of "universal acceptance" applies to nude models. It doesn't. We are still treated like prostitutes by many people, not just the ones who want to hire us. Aug 08 19 05:20 am Link  Moderator Note!aquarelle wrote: Our Member Safety page contains info for models to confidentially report incidents of unprofessional behavior, verbal or physical abuse or sexual assault. Aug 08 19 09:57 am Link DanninTO wrote: Sure. so she can have a precinct full of other dudes who also have ridiculously high assault rates laugh at her, disbelieve her, victim blame her, slut shame her, or best of all make an assumption that shes actually a sex worker because "modeling" is just a cover and then arrest HER. Aug 12 19 07:21 pm Link OP : yeah, its "normal" The first person to write to me when I signed up at 16 had me convinced we needed to talk about scheduling our shoot over the phone and once that happened it turned into trying to fuck me and create child porn. Because we were speaking over the phone I had no evidence of any wrongdoing. I blocked his number and he got new ones to keep calling. It took a few months before he finally stopped and another year or two before someone actually had enough reason to remove his MM profile. That's not something literally every member has experienced but its not at all out of the ordinary. A handful of girls I went to highschool with also wound up making profiles between 16 and 20 and none of them stayed. Every one I asked said they were inundated with creepy/pushy messages for shooting content they werent comfortable with and it just wasnt worth the hassle and risk for some pretty pictures. When I was brand new I had a well respected member here decide that as I walked up the stairs ahead of him it would be fine to spank me. When I wanted to leave he tried to initiate a weird "tickle fight" to hold onto me and I had to wrestle my way out. Others have done an excessive amount of hugging (I'm *usually* fine with an end-of-shoot hug but these were too frequent/too long/ hugging me while trying to face me and talk to me which put me in the position for a kiss I didnt consent to/etc) Lots have seen my fetish imagery and decided it was a-ok to try to initiate deeply sexually explicit conversations/share details about themselves I didnt ask to know. Probably some others I've just put out of my mind because I wanted to just get past it. You've got to be super vigilant, you've got to be an excellent judge of character from just a few messages behind a computer, you've got to have incredible self-esteem and resolve to say "fuck this you cant treat me this way" and walk out, reputation be damned. A lot of people dont have that. A lot of people get screwed over. Aug 12 19 07:34 pm Link I walked out of my first photo shoot because the photographer was insistent that I put on something "sexier". He wasn't ok with the matching bra and boyshort panties I had, though, and kept trying to get me to wear his ex-girlfriend's lingerie. The friend I'd brought with me, who had a few shoots under her belt, was confused as to why I was ending the shoot early. She thought it was totally fine. That was one of my worst experiences. But I learned two things: one, having someone there for safety (which my friend had insisted was the way things worked) was useless, and two, I was better off checking references. So I started checking references. Saved me a lot of headache, both from a comfort standpoint and even when it came to getting images back from trade shoots. Heck, it probably saved me from getting an eye infection too, since I started checking references on MUAs as well. I wrote about my process here: https://racheljay.wordpress.com/2011/02 … eferences/ Aug 13 19 09:22 am Link Funny, when I read "whipping it out" I just figured we'd be looking at a nice new camera lens. I guess my mind goes in another direction. Aug 14 19 11:59 am Link Clearly a violation of the Law, and no place for the behavior. I would advise all models if you don't know the person have never worked with them ask to bring an escort. Protect yourself and F... what he thinks is unfair, if a photographer says no to the request don't work with him. Best of luck Aug 16 19 08:01 pm Link Laura UnBound, thank you for your thoughtful comments. Aug 17 19 04:07 am Link aquarelle wrote: I will second that. Aug 17 19 04:02 pm Link I don't really believe OP's story. It sounds to me like he actually just wants to enjoy hearing more stories like his, getting an erotic charge out of what he might hear, and so posted what he did. Not saying there aren't plenty of bad experiences out there, but this story smells fishy. It would be pretty unlikely for someone to have all those experiences in just twelve shoots. Aug 17 19 10:04 pm Link Laura UnBound wrote: WOW, so every single male that walks this earth is a creep, slut shamer, or worse? I will agree they are out there and I am sure this is a perfect platform for them but do not ever lump every male into that category. Aug 18 19 10:46 am Link garybuntonfoto wrote: This is terrible advice. Aug 20 19 09:17 am Link garybuntonfoto wrote: Bad Advice! Aug 20 19 07:55 pm Link aquarelle wrote: Wait, what? She told you that two people took their penis out in front of her and another sexually assaulted her by squeezing her nipples? Aug 21 19 08:37 am Link ... Aug 21 19 08:38 am Link aquarelle wrote: I think she needs to walk away from people who whip their penises out and likewise report them as well as sexual assaulters immediately but, I know that might not be worth it to her, (long forms and appointment at police department and then the ensuing court dates...) Aug 21 19 08:41 am Link I am not capable to "whip it out",...  ... that's why I am overcompensating  with a 70-200mm telephoto lens, that provides girth at f 2.8!  Aug 21 19 10:29 am Link There had existed a list @shitmodelmgmtlist on IG. IG has hidden it from public. It'd listed hundred of diseases that had been confirmed by several people. Keep your eye out for it. This photography business, taking pictures of models, fashion, accessories, cars with, locations with, whatever with; liken it to visiting a bar, club, park, business, going out your front door, on every occasion you would shoot. There will be those diseases that don't belong here. It's gonna take a movement, us, to eliminate it from our society. J. Aug 21 19 04:15 pm Link Jarrett Porst wrote: But not from Google. Aug 22 19 10:29 pm Link DanninTO wrote: I didn't. Aug 24 19 08:38 pm Link Two? I can't even. Like what goes on in the mind of the photog that causes them to think in any way shape or form that "whipping it out" would be part of the work flow? Yesterday during a (paid) shoot, which was one on one, I asked before touching the model's hair. How many steps is that away from whipping it out. I'd hope it's at the far end of the pendulum. I thought the number one rule was "ALWAYS ask". Apparently there's another that needs to be added to the list: "Keep it in your pants." Unbelievable that it even has to be discussed. SMH. Aug 28 19 07:33 am Link Strangers2Friends wrote: One ? Aug 28 19 09:11 am Link PHP-Photography wrote: That depends on your shooting style... if you are one of those people that lets the model move perpetually, from one pose into the next, then she can fix the hair on her own. Aug 28 19 05:37 pm Link Wtf is Wrong with some people? For real, this dude is a deviant and belongs in front of judge no less. Unfortunately, there are some lines that can be fuzzy at times and at other times, taken for granted all together. But at the end of the day, "whipping it out" goes beyond all! Personally, I think he needs a good flogging, but to stay on the right side of the law, they should report him to the site and the cops. I don't know the victim, or how they operate, but I'd suggest being a little assertive with modeling in future. Do some character checks on the photographers and remain assertive throughout to be in control at all times. Aug 28 19 10:19 pm Link |
