sunnydayay wrote:
that I didn't undress like other models did

We have a winner.

sunnydayay wrote:
...It was at this moment he told me I was a terrible model, I didnt know how to pose right (even though he told me before he liked my poses), he said he had other models he knew that were better looking than me that he could pay less, that I didn't undress like other models did and that he could hire other models any time he wanted and that he was just doing me a favor by paying me.

It sounds like every other GWC/Bully/cCrrent US President that doesn't bow to the masters every whim and do/believe everything they say without question!

While it's not commonplace, it's not all that uncommon either.

Orca Bay Images wrote:
You handled the situation well. You stuck to the agreement, ignoring later texted stipulations to which you apparently did not agree.

Setting up photographic gear is HIS problem, not yours.

I'm curious what you mean by "personal" photos. Nudes?

It would be interesting to hear the photographer's side of the story, but from what you've described, he behaved extremely unprofessionally:
0) Not clearly outlining in the agreement what was paid time and what was not.
1) Adding requirements after the agreement.
2) Not backing hi9s own option of compensation for that second hour.
3) Getting angry when he didn't get his way.
4) Saying he was doing you a favor by paying you what was agreed to.

You were right to get the hell out of there when you got uncomfortaable.

I'm not sure what he meant by personal photos. I didnt ask. I had some lingerie in my bag I didnt use for the shoot, so that maybe

Brooklyn Bridge Images wrote:
Generally prep time, make-up, costume changes are bundled with shoot time.
Given the togs childish reactions you were right to end things and walk away.
He sounds like a bit of a nut.
In the future though I would suggest not mixing pay shoots with any tfp or asking for images to use yourself.
Do TFP shoots for building your portfolio.
Do pay shoots for pay and dont ask for anything beyond that.
Keep them totally separate.

.
It was his idea to do tfp with the rate, I was rather perplexed when he changed his mind.
I will remember for my future shoots not to mix the two. Good advice

PHP-Photography wrote:

We have a winner.

That's likely it! 🤣
I did get half nude however (top half)
I guess he was wanting to see more

Znude! wrote:
You have some lovely work and if you were closer I'd certainly be happy to hire you. Just chalk it up to him being an ass and don't bother with him ever again.

Thank you!

Dorola wrote:
In over 600 model shoots I've never told a model she was bad. Twice I told models that we just didn't seem to have the right vibe for the moment and we should finish at another time. On both incidences, the models where under the influences of weed.  As far as posing goes, the photographer needs to have the verbal skills to communicate their concepts and ideas in real time to the model. If the photographer is not getting poses that they want, then the photographer should stop, discuss in a different manner, show the model what posing looks like on the back of the camera and maybe even physically demonstrate the pose themself.

A person that is trying to get the best work out of people they hire does not berate them or try to short them on your fee. It sounds like you handled things well. And I do recommend that you stand your position  and demand your fee. Unfortunately, you are going to meet more people like this photographer and if you can identified their behavior in your early communications, just avoid them. It is really poor form for a so called photographer to try to deduct his setup time and camera operation from a photoshoot. It sounds likethe photographer was unprepared. From reading your comments, the term I might use is Fauxtographer.

Usually I book a model for 4 hours a session. The reason being is that is that it takes time to know how to talk, respond to someone, understand their body language and physical capacities. Generally by the 3rd hour, we are starting to get on the same wavelength and a much higher ratio of photo that I want.

Rarely do I find that I can start on time and have no breaks for the model to touch up her makeup of clothing changes. So I allow for that in the time that I book for. When a model is relaxed and confident that the photographer is happy, the best photography will occur.  Because of my physical training, I don't get tired like most people, but I do keep in mind the models. I have nutritious snacks and refreshments standing by that the model can break for at any time. I've even had modesl skip breakfast at home so they would be a little early to a morning shoot. As gratitude, I've cooked nice breakfasts and had it waiting for them when they arrived. Creating a positive environment is the best way operate every photoshoot. But when someone tries to short you on your fee, that's when you have to stand your ground even if creates unhappiness.

You know oddly enough, one of the pairs of pants he gave me wreaked of weed!
I tried my best to get my rate, but the way he acted was so unusual and I just figured it best to avoid conflict. I think there was just something wrong with him!
Near the beginning of the shoot he was complaining about how models didnt respond immediately to his messages and how model mayhem had gone to trash.
At the end of the shoot, He went off on another rant and brought up that bc I didnt respond asap to his messages before the shoot that also made me unprofessional and that he also had this issue with other models.
I could show you the messages. He would text me out of the blue asking if I was available for a last minute shoot and I would respond within an hour saying "no im unavailable"

I was like, dude I have a job. I was working when you texted me, I couldn't text back immediately but I did respond to you within an hour  and he responded with, well you could've let me know you were at work

Logic? Nope, none at all.
All his insults is when I decided it was best to go than be stuck there with him

Shadow Dancer wrote:
It sounds like an exceptional shoot, but not in a good way.
Sorry you've had this experiece, you handled it well.

Thank you
I was nervous as heck

Orca Bay Images wrote:

sunnydayay wrote:
You know oddly enough, one of the pairs of pants he gave me wreaked of weed!

Wrong on so many levels. Good thing he didn't offer you a used -- and unwashed -- bikini.

Near the beginning of the shoot he was complaining about how models didnt respond immediately to his messages and how model mayhem had gone to trash.

Bad form to complain like that in any work environment.,

At the end of the shoot, He went off on another rant and brought up that bc I didnt respond asap to his messages before the shoot that also made me unprofessional and that he also had this issue with other models.

He was half-right. Someone at the shoot was being unprofessional. But it wasn't you.


Who does he think he is, your parole officer?

Do you think he'll try to book you again? Might be a good idea to block his number.

Oh gosh, is offering used bikinis a thing ?
I'm not sure if he would try, but if he does I'll be half tempted to say "nah ur unprofessional!" 🤣
I already blocked him though

He had mentioned his onlyfans account (at the end of course)
Hopefully he wont post my photos on there

ROUA IMAGES wrote:
...You had a momentary interactive eyewitness experience with Narcissistic Personality Disorder and Coercive Control at play.

A situation to which you reacted understandably reasonable and justifiably so.   If nudes :: cough :: "Personal" images were not negotiated in the original terms, and the decision not to shoot any after the fact led to an outburst of criticisms, comparisons, and ridiculous justifications for what are otherwise common sense factors of time and cost for most photographers regarding any paid shoot, then...

Before the shoot I asked him if it was a nude shoot
His exact words not fully, topless, implied if anything

I had to look up what coercive control was. That makes a lot of sense. He did seem to have some type of disorder. Nothing about what he said made sense. I felt like I was going crazy or like i had done something wrong.

IMAGINERIES wrote:
Unfortunately you were dealing with a cheap photographer that has no respect for models....
When I used to hire models I made it a point to sit down the person and discuss the project and even asked them for their opinions and small talks over some refreshments as part of the 2 hours shoot.
And it was most of the time well spent money.. And on occasions I end up having to tell them that the two hours had passed!   A shoot should be a creative and fun collaboration and often the most interesting poses were the model's idea.
In the future try to contact models the photographer has worked with to get some ideas of the person work ethics.
You did do anything wrong!!

I wish I had more photographers like you in my area

Garry k wrote:
From Your account of the transaction - it does not sound like you did anything wrong

and the guy sounds like a dick ... or maybe i should say a cheap dick

If you are a member of any sort of modelling community in your area - i would suggest sharing your experience with other models who may approached by the guy

and move on

I wanted to report him to model mayhem but looked up the guidelines and wasnt sure if they'd handle it. Plus he would probably just open up a new account anyways. Do u know any good model communities to let others know?

sunnydayay wrote:

I wanted to report him to model mayhem but looked up the guidelines and wasnt sure if they'd handle it. Plus he would probably just open up a new account anyways. Do u know any good model communities to let others know?

My guess is that there is probably a Model Safety Group on Facebook or Instagram in your area

sunnydayay wrote:
He offered to do some personal photos for me and I declined because that's not what we had agreed upon timewise.

He looked irritated when I declined.

I look at my shoots this way - when a model agrees to work on a project/concept of mine, then the model's hair, makeup, wardrobe, as well as the time it takes a model to get ready/change ... is on me.

However, when a model asks me to photograph a project/concept of theirs, then the onus is on the model.

When I’m enjoying working with a model and we get the shots I want/need quicker than expected and there’s still time left on the model’s meter, then I’m not against offering to do some ‘personal' photos for my model.

If it’s okay with the model, then I’m happy to continue by shooting any ideas my model may have.  IMO offering to shoot personal photos can be a win/win arrangement, where the model reaps the benefit of having pro hair and makeup, together with the photographer's time and services to work on their own ideas. If we continue shooting beyond the agreed shoot time, then and only then would the extra time be at TFP.

I don’t shoot nudity, but many photographers and models do. So I don’t immediately see anything wrong with a photographer offering to shoot personal photos for a model whose bio says yes to nudity.

However, you declined and his irritated look was unjustified.

As this photographer continued to show his discontent by getting upset and making snide remarks such as "you didn't undress like other models did” it does appear that this photographer had ulterior motives and/or an unjustified expectation about the direction he wanted this shoot to go.

Remember, if in doubt, get out! … That precisely, is what you did!

IMO you missed a number of Red Flags in this photographer's behaviour and expectations leading up to this shoot. e.g. the demanding pre-shoot texts.

Perhaps this bad experience will help you to better identify this type of character in the future.

sunnydayay wrote:
You know oddly enough, one of the pairs of pants he gave me wreaked of weed!

Is weed illegal in the USA? If it is, you should be mindful of what you say or allege, as it may come back to bite you. Remember, the photographer is a member of MM and he may be reading all that you are saying about him.

Orca Bay Images wrote:
Well, the creep did ask you to wear used, unwashed jeans. At that point he probably wouldn't think anything's wrong with giving you unwashed underwear or swimsuit.

Half tempted? If anyone asks you to wear unwashed clothes, tell him it's completely unprofessional.

The OP didn’t say if the pair of pants the photographer gave her were new or used, washed or unwashed, intimate or outer wear. You know oddly enough, all the aforementioned items could easily wreak of smoke, if the photographer is a smoker!

The photographer’s actions sound bad enough, there’s little need for you to add fuel to the fire by adding your own twist to the OP’s statements.

The OP didn’t say if she used the smelly pants or not, but I agree with your point on the importance of personal hygiene and this applies to both new and used items of clothing, especially intimate wear.

sunnydayay wrote:
I wanted to report him to model mayhem but looked up the guidelines and wasnt sure if they'd handle it. Plus he would probably just open up a new account anyways. Do u know any good model communities to let others know?

MM can't/won't do anything to resolve your situation because nothing illegal or a danger to society happened.

I can't go into details but it should also be noted that when MM does remove someone it's nearly impossible for them to sneak in using a new account. The few times someone successfully sneaked in, they were usually caught immediately and once again removed.

sunnydayay wrote:
He had mentioned his onlyfans account (at the end of course)
Hopefully he wont post my photos on there

So this was a paid shoot. Did you sign a model release? If so he can post them wherever he wants. In the future make sure those discussions take place before agreeing to the shoot.

But I am a bit confused why you would be concerned about the photos being posted on OnlyFans vs. posted here or on some other site. In reality, anything that gets posted online can get stolen and neither you or the photographer can fully protect against that, so if there are poses you don't want online then discus those restrictions upfront and then don't shoot those poses in the first place.

Eye of the World wrote:
"... don't shoot those poses in the first place."

The above, has to be one of the best and most powerful snippets of advice for models to remember.

As a model, the most control you will ever have over your image ... is before each photograph is taken!

Use this opportunity wisely.