Teila K Day Photography wrote:
Simple.  Overall the landscape has changed and the bulk of "models" have started photographing and video recording themselves.   The question has always been - why do they need a photographer?   Models have a better chance at making enough money to pay their rent each month using social media as opposed to trying to land consistent traditional (and relatively low-paying) modeling jobs with publications, etc..   Those days are over and models finally woke up and smelled the coffee so-to-speak...   you don't need a photographer for the kind of work that constantly pays.... although for non-photographer models, the content can look much better if you do.

Think of it this way.  Most people here can't fly themselves from point A to B in an airplane when they want to.  Why?  Because  (1) they don't own a plane (2) because they don't have a pilot's license and any applicable requisite training demanded by the aircraft they're flying.     However, what special training does a model need to take compelling photographs for social media / web site, etc.?   None.   A decent camera, lens, lighting and video cam are the preeminent   factors, and that's not hard to come by.

So.... if Jack can be a photographer.   Why can't Jill be one for herself?

That's (at least in part) is what you're seeing play out on a large scale world wide.

yes yes yes!
I stopped working with photographers/producers a year, maybe two, before covid. I realize that my corner of the photography world is small, but what I love about producing my own content is:
I control my own image. I don't have to see myself on some dude's facebook page with everyone commenting "is that your girlfriend?" and them answering vaguely that I'm a "friend" (rather than saying I was a hired model.)
I make 3 times as much money and work less.
I don't have to travel. Or make plans amonth or two in advance.
I dn't have to deal with flakes.
I don't have to deal with egos (other than my own!)
I don't have to worry about ending up in a dangerous situation.
I don't have to deal with inappropriate photographers.
I don't have to wait for pictures endlessly from a TF that never appear or are unusable when they do.

Life is good.

Model MoRina wrote:

yes yes yes!
I stopped working with photographers/producers a year, maybe two, before covid. I realize that my corner of the photography world is small, but what I love about producing my own content is:
I control my own image. I don't have to see myself on some dude's facebook page with everyone commenting "is that your girlfriend?" and them answering vaguely that I'm a "friend" (rather than saying I was a hired model.)
I make 3 times as much money and work less.
I don't have to travel. Or make plans amonth or two in advance.
I dn't have to deal with flakes.
I don't have to deal with egos (other than my own!)
I don't have to worry about ending up in a dangerous situation.
I don't have to deal with inappropriate photographers.
I don't have to wait for pictures endlessly from a TF that never appear or are unusable when they do.

Life is good.

Perfectly stated. This is exactly why I made the transition and stopped working with photographers and producers. It was a lot of stress traveling. Then have half my bookings I worked booking two months before my trip cancel within 24 hours of me stepping off the plane. The flake rate drove me to reconsider my career choices.

My life is basically stress free and drama free now. I always felt like I was in survival mode on the road. I always missed my family. Now, I am at a point where I have built my own brand enough, I am thinking about doing shoots, again. But this time it will be for different reasons.

Teila K Day Photography wrote:
MM hasn't been shoving anything down anyone's throat.  It's not for everyone and everyone doesn't frequent the site.  It's that simple.  If you like it enough to stay then so be it.  If you don't, the door is there for you to use.  You're not entitled to have the site run to your specs...  as with anything, when it stops fitting your needs, go somewhere else and frequent a site or product that does fit your wants, needs and or spec.

If the site becomes too much for me to bear (like any other product or site) I just leave.  It's too simple and easy.  No one puts anything down your throat ... especially when you're standing there **voluntarily** letting them spoon feed you.

Right. Entitled gentleman. The world is in fact just that simple isn't it? This site was how I made my living. You sound like a republican. "Welp I reckon if you don't like where ya live, just move,"

So simple to just "move on" from an 18 year career I have had to...oh right. There is no other place to go.

Why am I even here is what I should be asking myself.

Model Sarah wrote:
Right. Entitled gentleman. The world is in fact just that simple isn't it? This site was how I made my living. You sound like a republican. "Welp I reckon if you don't like where ya live, just move,"

So simple to just "move on" from an 18 year career I have had to...oh right. There is no other place to go.

Why am I even here is what I should be asking myself.

I think the keyword here is "was". This site *was* how you made your living.  But, the business world is always changing and businesses need to adapt to it in order to keep going.  Back in the 90's, i made and sold a lot of jewelry.  i had pieces in multiple shops in my town, as well as shops in other states. It was a great side business.  But then the internet came along, and people transitioned to shopping online.  This caused a lot of small independent shops to close up, taking my sales with them.  I could have raged against the dying the of the light, but I learned how to sell online instead.  I had to learn product photography (a very different animal than photographing nudes), I had to learn how to write attractive copy, i had to learn search engine optimization and how to utilize it in my descriptions. There was a lot I had to do to keep up with the changes in the business.

So, if this site no longer sustains your business, it is time to find out what changed in the business and how to adapt.  Did they all go to instagram and onlyfans?  If so, then it's time to start looking at those sites, and finding ways to promote yourself, and find business, on those sites.   Did they go to other sites, such as AdultFolio or any of the others? They all went somewhere.  You just have to study the industry and figure out how to adapt to the new business models.  It's the only way.

Model Sarah wrote:
Right. Entitled gentleman. The world is in fact just that simple isn't it? This site was how I made my living. You sound like a republican. "Welp I reckon if you don't like where ya live, just move,"

So simple to just "move on" from an 18 year career I have had to...oh right. There is no other place to go.

Why am I even here is what I should be asking myself.

I'm concerned about some of your recent posts. You sound pretty down... blaming the site for you not being able to pay your rent seems desperate. I hope that you can find another career to transition into if this one isn't cutting it for you. Wishing you the best.

Model MoRina wrote:
I'm concerned about some of your recent posts. You sound pretty down... blaming the site for you not being able to pay your rent seems desperate. I hope that you can find another career to transition into if this one isn't cutting it for you. Wishing you the best.

How "nice" of you. But then again, you have always been this way in these forums toward me.

Covid literally killed my career. Overnight. Literally. I have talked with other models about this, and many of them agreed but have moved on to OF and other things. I have not done that. When you spend half of your life doing something and it ends overnight, it is not easy. As far as the website/rent thing I had already explained this to you directly so for you to bring this up in another thread is pretty telling of you. However, I will repeat myself: I lost thousands of dollars of work because the site and the app do not communicate with each other. A few passing through photographers and I had set up shoots. Because they were using the app, I never got a notification, never knew they responded (thread was not bold/unread). By the time I reaized what was going on, they had left the state. I realized had to keep up with how many replies are there or keep refreshing the thread to see if any new response had occurred. (Same thing was happening on their end) It looked like we were both logging in and ignoring messages. That is directly the site's fault. I have since dealt with that after it took me a while to figure out exactly what was going on. Again, yes that happened and those are a few examples of how I figured this all out but it has been going on for a long time. So who knows how much work I lost out on because of this.

My mother died in May unexpectedly. That was very hard for me. I still talk about her in the present tense. I have no family to rely on like most do. I am not in a monogamous relationship to rely on. My car's subframe collapsed late last year (that could have literally killed me) and a "friend" sold me a pos shit car that I have sank money into over the course of the past year. That has caused me to see my son less (his father lives 75 miles away and we used to meet halfway) and to cease travel which is half of the way I made a living with modeling. I had a health scare that nearly killed me 4 different times. I ended up figuring it out going down a Google rabbit hole through medical journals, not medical professionals. I was put through the medical wringer for an entire year. MRI's, Cat scans, cardiology/echo cardiogram, vein ultrasound, colonoscopy, name it, I went through it. Over nothing. Well, a very rare allergy.

Now that you know the past year of my life, I do hope you can have some empathy/sympathy or at least try not to publicly be "passive aggressive diplomatic" toward me. Then again, someone who would say what you said here, knowing what you know, probably does not have the awareness to think about whether or not saying anything is right thing to do in the first place.

Luckily, I do have people in my life that love me and care about me. It is what I am holding on to. Did not expect to cry at noon on a Sunday so thanks for that.

(Please people stop linking me to these threads in the forums) It is completely useless here.

JohnTozziPhotography wrote:

I think the keyword here is "was". This site *was* how you made your living.  But, the business world is always changing and businesses need to adapt to it in order to keep going.  Back in the 90's, i made and sold a lot of jewelry.  i had pieces in multiple shops in my town, as well as shops in other states. It was a great side business.  But then the internet came along, and people transitioned to shopping online.  This caused a lot of small independent shops to close up, taking my sales with them.  I could have raged against the dying the of the light, but I learned how to sell online instead.  I had to learn product photography (a very different animal than photographing nudes), I had to learn how to write attractive copy, i had to learn search engine optimization and how to utilize it in my descriptions. There was a lot I had to do to keep up with the changes in the business.

So, if this site no longer sustains your business, it is time to find out what changed in the business and how to adapt.  Did they all go to instagram and onlyfans?  If so, then it's time to start looking at those sites, and finding ways to promote yourself, and find business, on those sites.   Did they go to other sites, such as AdultFolio or any of the others? They all went somewhere.  You just have to study the industry and figure out how to adapt to the new business models.  It's the only way.

Right. I know that. As per my post above, it is not easy.

Model Sarah wrote:
... the site and the app do not communicate with each other. A few passing through photographers and I had set up shoots. Because they were using the app, I never got a notification, never knew they responded (thread was not bold/unread). By the time I reaized what was going on, they had left the state.

That's really bad.  I only use a browser (not any apps), and I wonder if I've missed any messages.

So, the threads are shown as unread (not bold), but do the most recent messages go to the top of the message list?

Model Sarah wrote:
I realized had to keep up with how many replies are there or keep refreshing the thread to see if any new response had occurred.

How does one "refresh" the thread?

Bluestill Photography wrote:

The last time I asked Garry to critique my work, he was so brutally honest that I closed my studio and moved out of the country.  I am just giving you a fair warning.

You kill me Blues

I should tell People what You are really up to .

Congratulations though on Living the Dream

Too Hot For Snakes wrote:
This really makes me sad...

Don't be sad

Francisco Castro wrote:
Model Mayhem USED to be fun for creatives. Since the new owners took over, it's pandered to mainstream conservatism. Conservatism is the antithesis of creatices, who, by their very nature, want to create NEW art and push the boundaries. By pandering to conservatism, they (the owners) put the people that gave MM life, the creatives, into boxes, limiting them to rehashing old ideas that fit a profile.

Models are still around, just not on MM. Instragram, Snapchat, Tik Tok, allow for more creative expressions. They're fun. And fun is where people will go.

MM takes itself too seriously.

I've noticed the change as well, I was recently brigged for submitting a photo to the POTD contest that was deemed to be too revealing  .  .  .  I then submitted the same exact image for consideration in the POTD18+ contest and was again chastised based on the image not being revealing enough  .  .  .  confusin' ain't it, is there a POTDCATCH22 contest that I'm unaware of  .  .  .  I'm feelin' a bit stifled, guess I'll jest crawl back inta my cave  .  .  . 

SOS

A-M-P wrote:
unlike other social media platforms where you get instant conversations and responses. Basically I'm surprised MM is still even standing and hasn't closed is doors for good yet.

You are correct. I have had 8 shoots in the last 8 days, all from Instagram. As I have mentioned in the past it does require a lot more leg work and time spent on the app. Also not these last 8 but the cancel rate on the whole on Insta hovers around 50% (for me).

I like to frequent Model Mayhem because booking traveling models for the most part, they are awesome and hearing old man photographers complain in the forums is very entertaining.

sospix wrote:
I've noticed the change as well, I was recently brigged for submitting a photo to the POTD contest that was deemed to be too revealing  .  .  .  I then submitted the same exact image for consideration in the POTD18+ contest and was again chastised based on the image not being revealing enough  .  .  .  confusin' ain't it, is there a POTDCATCH22 contest that I'm unaware of  .  .  .  I'm feelin' a bit stifled, guess I'll jest crawl back inta my cave  .  .  . 

SOS

I'm just as confused. I uploaded a photo to my profile that I had manually reviewed and deemed SFW, but later on when I submitted that same photo for the POTD contest it was removed for being NSFW...

A-M-P wrote:
I am not a model but I left this site over 10 years ago because all I kept getting was spam in my inbox from retouchers and traveling models.

Although I'm not able to shoot any longer, I never thought of messages from traveling models as Spam. I looked at their messages as networking and opportunities to work with new people. I still get some of those messages and try to reply to all of them. The retouchers I just ignore.

MM is the only site i know of where you can see a model's stats and the genres she is interested in shooting.You can also see who she has worked with and other people's recommendations.

Sadly, the forums are pretty dead.

NW Photography wrote:
I logged in to delete my account, but I just thought that I should chime in. Best of luck.

HAHAHAHA he totally did!

Newviewphotos wrote:
Where have all the models gone?

Where's anyone else for that matter.

Tony Lawrence wrote:
Attractive women can always make money on line.  I remember two past nude glamour models who set up sessions at their loft.  They even had studio lights.  Photographers who went had a blast and the ladies made some decent cash.  Another nude model used to shoot in Vegas.  She knew all the cool spots.  Be creative.  I always remember a Chicago model who got a free trip to France in exchange for nude modeling.  Create a meet up group in your area.  If modeling is your business and most of your income then always remember EVERY photographer who reaches out to you is a possible paying client.

Remember, personalty can play a big role in being hired and re-hired.  So try and keep things light.  Discuss negative issues with friends off line.  Be flexible and understanding if someone can't afford your rates.

Beautifully stated.

Newviewphotos wrote:
Ive been on MM for more than a decade and I have seen the number of models decrease alot of the years.   Can anyone explain this? Is it thenindustry or the site or covid? But where did they go?

First of all look at this website. It's old, hasn't been updated in years. It's ugly, unintuitive, slow. People are not very responsive, old inactive profiles. Not worth it anymore.

Photographer12years wrote:
As for the conservative new owners kinda makes me laugh U up loaded a photo of a model, fully clothed and it was flagged as adult content lol.......

Just a quick FYI...

The default setting is an adult tag for ANY photo that you upload.  You then change the tag accordingly.

Hope that helps!