SayCheeZ!  wrote:
Well, there's a term GWC (Guy with camera)
He's GWOC (Guy without camera)

Same intentions, one is just more honest than the other.

Let's ride that horse to the finish line:

Let's say I "book" that encounter.

In your own words, do describe to me what you think it'll go like.
(The ones who have worked with me know my clothes are on the floor before you show me where to stand.)

Dea and the Beast wrote:
Plain copy/paste from my email :


Hi Amadea. I was just browsing through model mayhem and saw you. You are a very classy and beautiful lady! I’m not a photographer, but was wondering if you would be interested in just nude modeling?

Thank you,
E-






Dafuq?!

Could be painter or sculptor. I’ve been in plenty of figure drawing classes. Probably a creep, but just trying to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Dea and the Beast wrote:
Plain copy/paste from my email :


Hi Amadea. I was just browsing through model mayhem and saw you. You are a very classy and beautiful lady! I’m not a photographer, but was wondering if you would be interested in just nude modeling?

Thank you,
E


Dafuq?!

So exactly what are you complaining about.  (1) Your profile confirms that you shoot nude, fetish, erotic, etc...  (2) You model.  (3) Models don't just model for photographers (4) The person wasn't rude, brash, or disrespectful and actually asked if you'd be interested.

If you're not interested just tell the person such and move on.   There was nothing inherently wrong with the email and unless you know otherwise, for all I know the person can be a respectful, upstanding law-abiding citizen that just wants to paint, draw, or even just pay to look at you naked for all I know... but if you're getting paid to "model" what does it matter to you if the person is respecting you, your craft, your space, your time?   It doesn't.

Stop dragging innocuous emails on their face and simply decline if modeling for that person isn't your bag of wax.

BlushResponse Studio wrote:
Could be painter or sculptor. I’ve been in plenty of figure drawing classes. Probably a creep, but just trying to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Teila K Day Photography wrote:
So exactly what are you complaining about.  (1) Your profile confirms that you shoot nude, fetish, erotic, etc...  (2) You model.  (3) Models don't just model for photographers (4) The person wasn't rude, brash, or disrespectful and actually asked if you'd be interested.

If you're not interested just tell the person such and move on.   There was nothing inherently wrong with the email and unless you know otherwise, for all I know the person can be a respectful, upstanding law-abiding citizen that just wants to paint, draw . . .

Exactly!

I was wondering if anyone was ever going to notice that OP never states whether or not the non-photographer is an MM member, nor if so, what profession or interest they might have listed on any such account. Nor is there any real indication one way or the other as to whether anything else was contained in the email. OP lists her email on her profile, so the email could have come from a non-member who might be a fine-art painter for all we know.

As such, the OP is just adding to her record for stirring up negativity in the forums. It's a really poor way to attract attention to oneself, and serves no positive end for others.

BlushResponse Studio wrote:

Could be painter or sculptor. I’ve been in plenty of figure drawing classes. Probably a creep, but just trying to give him the benefit of the doubt.

"Hey Amadea, I'm a painter/ sculptor,  wanna sit for me?"

Reads different,  doesn't it. ...

Teila K Day Photography wrote:
Stop dragging innocuous emails on their face and simply decline if modeling for that person isn't your bag of wax.

Stop telling grown people.what to do maybe?
You're invited to scroll past and mind your business too you know..

Im.not a stripper. I'm not here to be "just looked at" in the buff. You can do that in the titty bars or fap to my images after you've (well, not You, you're on my DNR list now too) taken them and I've gone home.

I'm not here for your sexual gratification or to get attention.
I'm here to work.

This is Not how this works.

MatureModelMM wrote:
You could always ask him exactly what his intentions are.  At least he's being honest. 

Over the years I've had a few who clearly were brand new to using a camera and seem to have bought one so they could get women to undress and pose for them.  They were respectful, even if unskilled.  You'd have to wonder why this person doesn't take that approach, since he admits to not having photography skills he could just say he wants to learn.

Especially You I had expected better from than to take the side of a questionable (at best) "offer".


I assume its bc you don't get harassed as much.

I'm learning so much about people here today.

Model MoRina wrote:
I stopped shooting with photographers and just make and sell my own content from the safety of my own home. .

Not too many model-seeking photographers would be traveling to McMurdo Sound in any case, so I guess you are doubly-protected!

Seriously though, I have no doubt, and much reason to believe, that female models and women in general face a lot of jive-talking creeps. The case here though was not very well presented in the original post, and that left plenty of room for relevant questions regarding the purportedly offending non-photographer, as well as for much unsupported speculation regarding their offensiveness. While you and others have interpreted it as the OP wanted you to, there's no reason to unfairly castigate those who ask for more information before agreeing with you. Fair enough?

Modelphilia wrote:
Seriously though, I have no doubt, and much reason to believe, that female models and women in general face a lot of jive-talking creeps. The case here though was not very well presented in the original post, and that left plenty of room for relevant questions regarding the purportedly offending non-photographer, as well as for much unsupported speculation regarding their offensiveness. While you and others have interpreted it as the OP wanted you to, there's no reason to unfairly castigate those who ask for more information before agreeing with you. Fair enough?

Thanks for minimizing my actual experience and my description of what we really face. "Jive-talking"??? Yeah, sure... that's what upsets us.

Modelphilia wrote:
Seriously though, I have no doubt, and much reason to believe, that female models and women in general face a lot of jive-talking creeps. The case here though was not very well presented in the original post, and that left plenty of room for relevant questions regarding the purportedly offending non-photographer, as well as for much unsupported speculation regarding their offensiveness. While you and others have interpreted it as the OP wanted you to, there's no reason to unfairly castigate those who ask for more information before agreeing with you. Fair enough?

Interesting, it seems that the rules regarding castigating those who create a post are not the same as those that reply to the post. A non-photographer requesting a model that shoots nudes pose for them, seriously WTF? I wonder what you would all be advising if that nude model was your sister, wife or daughter and received that request. The intentions of the non-photographer are obvious. That many choose not to accept the instincts of a highly regarded professional model with well over 11 years working on this site says way more about those questioning her than anything else.

BlushResponse Studio wrote:
Could be painter or sculptor. I’ve been in plenty of figure drawing classes. Probably a creep, but just trying to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Teila K Day Photography wrote:
There was nothing inherently wrong with the email and unless you know otherwise, for all I know the person can be a respectful, upstanding law-abiding citizen that just wants to paint, draw

MatureModelMM wrote:
You could always ask him exactly what his intentions are.  At least he's being honest.  .

Nat the droid wrote:
Going to go be a breathing bowl of fruit at this art school, lol

Dea and the Beast wrote:
It was the whole message. 

No in my MM inbox but in my Google.

,,, you're getting off on blaming me for "overreacting".

Don't expect models to reply to you when all you do is cry Not True , Can't Possibly be true.

I appreciate your clarifications.

I don't think I ever said you were "overreacting".

I'm not certain where your last sentence comes from, nor what it is based upon. It doesn't seem to relate to anything I have said.

Dea and the Beast wrote:

"Hey Amadea, I'm a painter/ sculptor,  wanna sit for me?"

Reads different,  doesn't it. ...

I sculpt in addition to photography and if I'm hiring for that I always make it very clear what the gig actually entails (as it's more than most think.

Modelphilia wrote:

I appreciate your clarifications.

I don't think I ever said you were "overreacting".

I'm not certain where your last sentence comes from, nor what it is based upon. It doesn't seem to relate to anything I have said.

Not sure why you quoted just the part of my post that said going to go be a breathing bowl of fruit at an art school. I only posted because OP messaged me that this was the reaction in the forums (can you imagine that, models actually talk and know each other!)

I can't tell you how many times I was convinced why I was going to be assaulted/die just from someone's initial messages if I went through with a shoot with them because I have been through experiences that were horrific and I can observe patterns.

But, I use humor as a coping mechanism as I'm in between therapists that bribe me with cat stickers every week I go without trachea punching someone.

Even though I'm not a small person by any means, that usually just means only the elite absolutely most malignant assholes that can pass my vetting process get through.

Anyways would rather negotiate my way out of gunpoint again than go back and forth with someone who chose the screen name Modelphilia, maybe you should listen more than speak in this situation as others with lived experience are giving good insights.

Giacomo Cirrincioni wrote:

I sculpt in addition to photography and if I'm hiring for that I always make it very clear what the gig actually entails (as it's more than most think.

My favorite pocket of fine artists barely know how to use emails, and we usually book via phone or I walk in and visit their studio when I'm working with someone else in the building 😂

But even the ones who do somehow know how to use at least craigslist will make their intentions clear - how many hours do they need, types of poses they work on for long projects, etc

Only people who are seeking an escort do the "I'm not a photographer BUT" routine. And yes many of them scrape emails from bios on MM, which I knowingly post mine since I'm not paying for this hellsite and free non-legacy members can't message non-friends. On a networking site.

Nat the droid wrote:
Not sure why you quoted just the part of my post that said going to go be a breathing bowl of fruit at an art school.
. . .  the screen name Modelphilia, .

The quoted line of yours was quoted solely because it, like all the quotes before it, shows that, yes, there are reasons other than photography that models might be posing for someone.  Other than that nothing was intended.

I totally accept that you and virtually any model would have encountered all sorts of dangerous and/or horrid people while simply trying to make a living safely, and I know the care that must be exercised.

"Modelphilia" uses the fairly common root-suffix "philo"- or "phil", meaning "attracted to, enjoying, loving", or even just "having to do with".  It's not anything nefarious, as you seem to think.

Modelphilia wrote:

The quoted line of yours was quoted solely because it, like all the quotes before it, shows that, yes, there are reasons other than photography that models might be posing for someone.  Other than that nothing was intended.

I totally accept that you and virtually any model would have encountered all sorts of dangerous and/or horrid people while simply trying to make a living safely, and I know the care that must be exercised.

"Modelphilia" uses the fairly common root-suffix "philo"- or "phil", meaning "attracted to, enjoying, loving", or even just "having to do with".  It's not anything nefarious, as you seem to think.

So you are aware that you are projecting a double entendre of sorts and chose that as your first impression.

🧐

Now I'm 20% convinced you moonlight as Mod 007

Model MoRina wrote:
It's why I stopped shooting with photographers and just make and sell my own content from the safety of my own home.

I understand.  At least I earnestly try to understand each and everyone who posts in the forums here.  That two word sentence is more important in my opinion than even the three word sentence "I love you" which many people say without understanding its ramifications.  There is less stress, risk, and  wasted time involved when working from home. The pandemic made it clear that there are advantages to working from home.  Creating and selling your own content from home is what many models are doing now.  "I understand."  OR maybe I don't understand?  You tell me.

Model MoRina wrote:
If you don't want to be one of those people, then string some real sentences together with some real information when you try to book us.

"Those people" being vague as there are so many types of people on this Earth. I could presume you meant men who are not clear with their communication.  There seems to be a communication gap between men and women in general.  So the problem is poor communication.  Many people are not honest. Some have difficulty expressing themselves due to intellectual limitations.  Or they could have unspoken expectations, ulterior motives, or bad intentions.  However, there are many among us who are genuine with good intentions and desire to create their visions.

".. string some real sentences together with some real information when you try to book us.   Your written comment of encouraging those of us who wish to work together as creatives is a solution.  Many photographers and models complain about each other, however much of it stems from misunderstanding each other. 

It astounds me how far we've come with advances in digital technology that allow us the tools to communicate in real time around the World, yet it seems more people are less able to communicate clearly.

Hunter  GWPB wrote:
No matter what, the person that approaches another has the responsibility to articulate their intentions clearly.  To do otherwise is to let- no, demand the other person use the sum of their experiences to fill in the blanks.

Absolutely!  It's about communication.

Nat the droid wrote:
My favorite pocket of fine artists barely know how to use emails, and we usually book via phone or I walk in and visit their studio when I'm working with someone else in the building 😂

That is how we did it before the Internet.  Speaking on the phone or in person communication (meeting at a coffee shop or my studio back in the day) were for me the best way to communicate. Holding model calls at schools and working with agencies were also important methods of vetting people.  There are times when I am nostalgic for analog days.  The Internet can be a wonderful tool for communication, but it seems that far too many people abuse it or don't even know how to use it.  Just seeing the abuse that goes on with Social Media makes me sad.

I'm glad that you have returned.  We shot many years ago when you were traveling with Elizabeth Claret .. in 2011 actually.   I joined this website near the creation of it by Tyler who after he sold MM he sent me an invite to connect on LinkedIn. There have been real friends that I have made here.  Sadly a few of the photographers and models I knew have died. Many more have left or simply have not logged in for years.  I miss the early years on this site, but I'm still honored to be here. Life is short.

There are always going to be those people we don't like. There are people who will hurt us. These past 5 years have been a struggle.  My parents have passed away.  My older brother and his wife passed away.  Then a family member did  something so terrible to me that the ramifications are lifelong.  I don't post too much personal stuff on here because I know that others have gone through much worse than I have.  The paradise I grew up on is gone.  I have to make my own. Best wishes!

Dea and the Beast wrote:
Plain copy/paste from my email :


Hi Amadea. I was just browsing through model mayhem and saw you. You are a very classy and beautiful lady! I’m not a photographer, but was wondering if you would be interested in just nude modeling?

Thank you,
E-








Dafuq?!

It's email.  Obviously not an offer you will respond to.   You block and move on.

Liv Sage wrote:
Remembering there are photographers who ask in these forums, "HoW cOmE MoDeLs dOn'T CoMmEnT aNyMoRe???"

How are people defending this?
If you read something like that, and you take the guy's side, you are saying too much about yourself. Acting as if it wasn't "presented" well in the OP is also quite amusing because that's a copy pasted email. Are we upset it was implied the guy is a likely degenerate?
Because a guy sending a woman this email is a degenerate.

"Maybe he's naive! Maybe he didn't know? Maybe he's just not aware of the social implications? Maybe he just bought a camera! Maybe he's jive-talking."

Yeah, that's very sweet. He's a degenerate.
I've had men send me emails like this over the years even though I don't shoot fetish/erotic. I've had men send me extremely detailed death threats, long paragraphs telling me how ugly they think I am, long paragraphs describing sex acts they want to do, photos of their genitals, descriptions of how they want me to have sex with their wife, etc. It makes sense that we aren't going to give guys like this the benefit of the doubt - because they overwhelmingly do not deserve it.

I'm sorry if models have been driven away from posting on the forums because of photographers.  I'm glad that you are here posting.  I've had death threats, bullied since childhood, gotten beaten up, been the subject of lies and gossip, even had a knife put to me, but not a gun so far. That's all in real life. The Internet allows for cowards and weak people to express hatred from a keyboard.  Shame on those people!

Patrick Walberg wrote:
So the problem is poor communication.
. . .   Many photographers and models complain about each other, however much of it stems from misunderstanding each other. 

. . .. It astounds me how far we've come with advances in digital technology that allow us the tools to communicate in real time around the World, yet it seems more people are less able to communicate clearly.

. . . The Internet can be a wonderful tool for communication, but it seems that far too many people abuse it or don't even know how to use it.

Yes.

I would say further that the "abbrevitional" aspects of the heavy users of text is one of the biggest problems. People's thumbs got tired, and they got tired of spelling things out on tiny smartphone screens, and wanted to get back to their videos or to updating their social media accounts, so between all of that and their desire to appear "cool" and "modern", they began keeping their actual communications as brief as possible. So much was left unsaid that people began misunderstanding the intent or content of what they were reading. That is now such a commonplace fact that people are forever being offended, unintentionally offensive, or completely misunderstood.

I would say that the biggest problems are due to the laziness, the social ineptitude, and to the selfish and self-centered attitudes that are also modern commonplaces. For me, if someone can't bring themselves to talk with me very soon after perhaps having begun with a text or two, then I write them off as being too selfish and dumb to bother with, and also as the most likely sort to flake out. Direct communication is so much better, and so much more informative and efficient. I don't like to have my time and efforts presumed upon or entirely wasted.

Call me "old school" if you like, but I might well have a lot harsher descriptive terms in mind for such people who –almost inevitably– turn out to be extremely self-centered and rude. While my trying to be accepting of modern social habits in general, and of their approaches to communication, will sometimes result in my holding off a bit longer before writing them off, the signs are pretty unmistakable quite early in the process. But then I am very intuitive and open in the first place, and many others are not.

It isn't a fun social environment if you aren't fond of living a frothy lifestyle.

Patrick Walberg wrote:

That is how we did it before the Internet.  Speaking on the phone or in person communication (meeting at a coffee shop or my studio back in the day) were for me the best way to communicate. Holding model calls at schools and working with agencies were also important methods of vetting people.  There are times when I am nostalgic for analog days.  The Internet can be a wonderful tool for communication, but it seems that far too many people abuse it or don't even know how to use it.  Just seeing the abuse that goes on with Social Media makes me sad.

I'm glad that you have returned.  We shot many years ago when you were traveling with Elizabeth Claret .. in 2011 actually.   I joined this website near the creation of it by Tyler who after he sold MM he sent me an invite to connect on LinkedIn. There have been real friends that I have made here.  Sadly a few of the photographers and models I knew have died. Many more have left or simply have not logged in for years.  I miss the early years on this site, but I'm still honored to be here. Life is short.

There are always going to be those people we don't like. There are people who will hurt us. These past 5 years have been a struggle.  My parents have passed away.  My older brother and his wife passed away.  Then a family member did  something so terrible to me that the ramifications are lifelong.  I don't post too much personal stuff on here because I know that others have gone through much worse than I have.  The paradise I grew up on is gone.  I have to make my own. Best wishes!

I'm going to take this as a "I'm trying to relate to people with my own experiences" and not trauma dumping Olympics because that's how it comes across.

The VERY POINT OF THIS POST is to point out an issue that many models experience. I'm fluent in craigslist double speak and the new phenomenon is "I was browsing MM" emails which, I usually get once a week or so since I'm not really active on here.

Around January of this year I had to make a choice to attempt to get on disability or to model again. I have a "rare" genetic disorder that can either mean I'm looking forward to a life of pain or i could drop dead in my 30's-50's.

I slash and burned or went dormant on my social media accounts, and decided to just make at least a sleeper account on here again since I'm not about to make a new website and this is one of the few places you can post nudes and browse people by location but the messaging system here is a joke, so I like many others post their email in my bio.

I was in my comfort zone wearing anonymizing scrubs and PPE caring for people either on hospice or memory care most of the time, and they were more likely to think i was their daughter or mom than some mildly famous on the internet person.

I'm only back because this is the one thing my body still tolerates doing. The only reason I'm not having surgery to release some impingements in my back is because I'm a poor candidate for surgery and it wouldn't put a dent in the 24/7 pain/numbness.

This is CLEARLY SOMEONE LOOKING FOR AN ESCORT. THIS IS NOT A FINE ARTIST LOOKING FOR MODELS.

That is the point of the post. Not for photographers to pause their Jordan Peterson feminist takedown compilation video on YouTube and maybe, MAYBE be able to devil's advocate a model that needs to be put in her place by pulling the "well actually" card.

Can we stay on topic guys and not try to post inane tangential paragraphs?