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why is the Hensel ringflash 1000$ and the AB 400$?
Looking for a reason from someone who has used both, or knows the hensel system, but why is the Hensel ringflash $1000 and the alienbees zeus ringmaster ringflash 400$? I have the zeus one, but my dog just chewed up the cord so I am going to get a new one, kinda looking at other brands, the zeus one did not impress me, very cheap build Dec 05 07 03:42 pm Link Because the equipment is in different classes. There is nothing wrong with the AB and it is a great value for the money, on the other hand, AB isn't generally on the short list for most professionals. There is a difference in quality and consistency. Don't knock the AB's though. They represent great value for the money. Dec 05 07 03:48 pm Link Heya Ms. Hope, To answer your question succinctly, "you get what you paid for." Why is there is there a high price differential between a Ford vehicle versus the luxury BMW, Mercedes, or Jaguars? You should purchase into a system within your means. --Ron Dec 05 07 03:48 pm Link with upper end ringflashes, you'll also need to invest in that model brands powerpack. IE profoto acute ringflash + profoto acute powerpack Dec 05 07 03:51 pm Link same thing with the zeus ringflash, it requires a powerpack Nathan Appel wrote: Dec 05 07 03:55 pm Link not knocking AB, I had used AB strobes for awhile, I recently upgraded to speedotron force 10 and force 5's and just touching the speedotrons made the AB's look/feel like toys the speedotrons use totally different lights in them then the AB's used, color is more consistant, faster recharge and just a better built light. I got the zeus because its a more powerful light then the other AB ringflash but its hard to mount the camera on it, does not fit well on my tripod head, the plastic is flimsey and the lock does not hold the light cover on very well, it keeps coming off. Does the Hensel use different flash bulbs then the zeus, is it built better, holds camera better...just saying its better does not mean much unless there is a reason for it. Alan from Aavian Prod wrote: Dec 05 07 04:02 pm Link Hope.... I have Hensel equipment... Interga Pro monolights and a Porti system. And I can say that the lighting is nothing short of amazing. The consistency from shot to shot is 100%. The price compared to other top tier equipment is reasonable... but getting the equipment is a bit harder... Hensel is probably not going to be stocked locally out side of NYC. I attended a Greg Gorman workshop and he was using Hensel and I am a fan of Rolando Gomez and he is also a Hensel shooter. All that sold me. PM me if you any other questions Dec 05 07 04:04 pm Link With any major branded flash equipment, you need to run their entire system - Broncolor, Profoto, Elinchrom, Hensel and Bowens. The only system that doesn't follow that trend is Balcar who make generators that have additional adaptor cables allowing you to run other manufacturer's light/flash heads on them. The AB's, Lumendyne etc type systems are great but they are not built anywhere close to the quality and sturdyness of a pro system costing $1000 upwards for just a flash head. They do not have any form of consistent light and colour output, the power range and stop adjustments are not as controllable, they will fire a lot of the time at less than a full recharge. All of these things affect the image and the quality of the shoot. Not something you want to have happen when there's a client involved, a budget, and limited cost or time to retouch and adjust lighting that was wrong. Then go to the range of light adpaptors and accesories... You pay for what you get, be it flash lighting, HMI, continuous flo or tungsten, a digital slr, a medium format with a digital back. You still need skills to create a beautiful image, and even more skill to create a stunning image, but there is truth in the better the equipment, the more you can do and the greater the control.... To make this point a little clearer, whatever camera system you use, go take a shot with a $150 lens, then go to a pro level lens at $600+ and see the difference in quality. You will see it... Dec 05 07 04:06 pm Link Is just an economics question. AB's are made in the United States in a U.S. dollar based economy. Hensels are made in Germany in a Euro based economy, where right now $100 U.S. is only worth 67 Euro, tack on transportation cost from Germany to America, add the import and customs tariffs, U.S. distributor markup, then that same $400 AB ring flash (if it was made in Germany) would cost your around $1000. Dec 05 07 04:08 pm Link Richard Harvey wrote: Not sure what you're talking about there... but AB's work pretty well if you take your time and don't fire off more than one shot a second. They aren't "pro" lights, and don't cost as much, but they aren't nearly as bad as you make it sound. Dec 05 07 04:08 pm Link speedotron does not make a ringflash or I would have got theirs, at least I did not see one one their site Richard Harvey wrote: Dec 05 07 04:09 pm Link Hope Parr wrote: I dont know this AB equipment have you got any further information? I use a hensel 3000 ringfash with an generator or porty. Dec 05 07 04:11 pm Link the alienbee will be cheaper than the zeus in build, only heavier as its a monolight. The others cost more to give more and more consistant light output. Not needed inside or in darker areas or for extremely close use, needed to overpower the sun on a bright day. See this link to see actual numbers for daylight and the flashes, the alienbee ring is the same output as the alienbee 400 unit so those numbers are applicable to it, its one stop less than a canon 580 or nikon sb800 (not sure that is their top unit, but if the number is wrong just assume I mean the top powered nikon hotshoe flash) http://stepheneastwood.com/tutorials/sk … ychart.htm Stephen Eastwood http://www.StephenEastwood.com Dec 05 07 04:26 pm Link Hope Parr wrote: flashclinic can adapt most any ringflash from any major brand (alientbee excluded I am sure) to fit a speedotron blackline pack, I have had profoto, and elinchrom both converted years ago, now I use broncolor 2400ws on verso packs (love the power and ML) or hensel porty ringflash (I like the octahaze and handle is great!) Dec 05 07 04:31 pm Link Lorance Photography wrote: Samy's in L.A. stocks them now -- I'm buying them, and now that they are officially a Hensel distributor, their stock/availability will go up noticeably. Dec 05 07 04:42 pm Link Hope Parr wrote: True, ANY ring flash (other than the Bee mono version) will require a pack -- but you can use either the Zeus power pack or a Dynalite. I have a couple of Dynalite packs already, so I don't need a Zeus. Dec 05 07 04:45 pm Link Hope Parr wrote: Not to be silly.... But couldn't you just replace the cords that were chewed? Dec 05 07 04:52 pm Link the cord does not unplug from the light unit, it would have to be sent in somewhere to be replaced, and If I have to send it in, then I would prefer to get a new ringflash, one thats built a little better. Chris Macan wrote: Dec 05 07 05:18 pm Link Hope Parr wrote: Fair enough..... But I would think cracking open the case and wiring in a new cord would be a fairly inexpensive repair. (I could be wrong but I wouldn't think so) Dec 05 07 05:22 pm Link Andrew, Not meaning to be rude in any way, but all the shots on your port have very simple, clean light, and that doesn't require anything specific or overly controlled to create. As for the lighting manufacturer's equipment that was used to create the lighting, I'm pretty sure no one will be able to do that, bar the photographer who took the image....Lighting set up, maybe. The point is output. When you work for a client or yourself, have variable set ups ranging from a commercial fashion image, to an editorial fashion image, to a hair or beauty shot, to still life, to a portrait you cannot spend time having to continuosly adjust for the following: Light colour output (a shift from 5600k to 5100k is very noticible if you've set your white balance for that shoot - something done every shoot if accurate colour is required), flash power output - Firing off a shot where 100% power is F11, then the flash fires at 70% not the full 100%, you loose 30% of the output, so you underexpose, with a high possibility of then firing again at 70% - around F13ish, plus you will get a colour shif due to the underpowered flash. The point is to not have to fix bad lighting or bad equipment in PS, more time in post is more cost to clients and doesn't look too good when they see a dark image on screen or worse, inconsistency in quality. If you take it a step further and go to power output - Broncolour goes to 6K on some packs, Profoto to 4.8K on the D4 etc, yet they still retain the colour and power consistency required for pro work. Having said this, the range of Elinchrom, Bowens, Hensel (which have pretty serious build and functionallity), Balcar all can quote the same things. CONSISTENCY! Yes, they cost more, but they work much more efficiently. And yes, if you're creating lighting effects, highlights, pick ups, shadow, accents, side fill, side and strip ligting, edge lighting, contoured edging etc, you need great light shapers and a huge choice of them..... One thing I did forget.....I would drop any piece of high end flash equipment, and still expect it to work (maybe not a flash head straight down on the flash element itself). Another benefit of it having to survive a pro enviroment... (yes, I have actually done this and lived to tell the tale.....) Dec 05 07 05:27 pm Link Richard Harvey, again, I feel you're full of it and going overboard. They are not expensive lights, and they do colorshift IF you take more than one shot a second or so. They work great if you slow down and take your time. Some people can't do this. Again, I'm not saying they are great or pro-level, just that they aren't half as bad as you're trying to say. PS, I don't drop my equipment. Dec 05 07 05:36 pm Link Andrew, Colour shift is inherent in both unblanced flash elements and capacitors that don't hold a fully regulated charge, either via mains or battery power. It's not to do with shooting more than 1 frame a second, it's the cost and build of the components used that guarantee's the output quality. They need to be able to validate consitency when a head/pack costs $$$$$ - if they didn't, there would be a lot of very unhappy people in very high places making a lot of noise.... It's not the same with equipment built on a budget so that more people get to shoot with higher power lighting, or use portable packs/heads with softboxes, light shapers etc. They don't have to guarantee output quality, because it's a case of, it cost this much, what do you expect.... Not a case of mine's better than yours, but very much a case of when you pay more, you can guarantee the result.... As for dropping equipment, it happens.... Had a flash head on a pack get blown over by wind more than once and hit the deck hard, had packs get dragged off of a step - 18-24" - and land, stuff fall out of cars, same with camera's etc. It happens and likely always will when stuff is used day in and day out. Do I like it, hell no, but I'm damn happy that it's built tough and still works because it's meant to. Hope, just to get back on subject, if you want an easy option for a ringflash, look at getting a new or secondhand Sunpak SR-12. It's a small battery powered ringflash that can be used open or with a dedicated adaptor, and can also be powered by a quantum battery pack . Goes up to 77mm on lens adaptors and I've used mine for fill, main portrait/beauty and even fashion work. Easy to carry and very useful. Not quite a 3K head, but it can do a great job. Dec 05 07 05:44 pm Link Hope Parr wrote: Easy fix... FYI, many systems are interchangeable if you get a proper adapter made by a COMPETENT technician. I've mentioned him before, but Silvino Gamboa in Hollywood (CA that is) is one of the stop strobe repair and modifiers in the country. He's a very nice guy and has been doing this for probably 30 years, and knows what can and can't be adapted. You can reach him at Silvino's Strobe Rx, 323-962-7076. Dec 05 07 06:10 pm Link I have Hensel strobes and to me, I think they are just average. If I have the money, I would go with Profoto. Dec 05 07 06:15 pm Link Honda/BMW Dec 05 07 06:40 pm Link Frank Mattoni wrote: If Alien Bees = Honda then Profotto = BMW could be a true statement, Dec 06 07 12:49 pm Link Hope Parr wrote: You would send it to the factory in Nashville and it'll probably cost around $50 to have it fixed. Dec 06 07 02:13 pm Link Hope Parr wrote: You can easily redo the cord. I would keep it, and just install a new electrical cord. If your going to trash it, I'll gladly take it. Dec 06 07 02:20 pm Link BMW isn't even reliable. Dec 06 07 02:23 pm Link Hope Parr wrote: I bought the Calumet (Bowens) ring flash and had it modified for Speedo. Unfortuately, it didn't work with the Explorer pack and I had to go into it and redo the conversion seperating out the two tubes as if they were separate heads. Now it works with any speedo pack and has the advantage of being able to have different power levels to the tubes or only use one tube. If you go this way it needs to be sent to speedo to be converted with 102 head parts. Dec 06 07 02:24 pm Link Mal at Hidden Creek wrote: Hensel is definitely not Volkswagon. Here in US Volkswagon's reliability suck. Dec 06 07 02:28 pm Link ChanStudio wrote: Honda just beat out Toyota for the number one spot for the first time in years. Not even sure any German cars made the top ten. Not that I am going to give up my Benz... Dec 06 07 02:36 pm Link Same as the difference between a Chevy and a Cadillac! Dec 06 07 02:39 pm Link Ralph Livingston III wrote: I agree. Just because Honda is cheaper doesn't means it is any less reliable or better than those that are more expensive. Dec 06 07 02:41 pm Link ChanStudio wrote: Lived and work in Germany for 13 years, the locals down in Bavaria use to translate BMW as "Bavarian Manure Works"...so maybe Hensel & BMW have a lot in common (Ugly Grin...too late in the day to be pickin a fight-shame on me) Dec 06 07 02:50 pm Link You get what you pay for I think is the best response to any question regarding AB. Cost is a factor for some, consistency for others, accessories someone else. Each lighting company out there has its highs and lows. Profoto, BronColor, Hensel, Comet, these are fine lights from overseas. They put themselves in a pricing high for some cause they are priced as result of being overseas, however they are fine equipment and possibly have the attributes needed by the photographer. You look at Elinchrome, Dyna-Lite, Norman, Speedotron, Photogenic, White Lightning, Alien Bee, these are lighting companies made in the USA. Once again, some costing more then others but cause of quality and features not from where it comes from. Dyna-Lite has a 1/10th stop consistency, thats why it costs more then Alien Bee which does not have that but does have more power available. Speedotron is heavy, norman is lighter, the debates can go back and forth. In the end, you pick the features, the size, accessories what have you to what you like. Then you see what costs what, can't have it all for the bargain price, gotta pick whats a priority to you. Most professionals will take the higher equipment, it's quality that gets them more business. To stick with cars, if you are a professional race car driver you are not going to enter the Daytona 500 driving a Hyundai, you need to wind the race.... get the ferarri. HOWEVER, if you just need to get point A to point B, why get a Rolls Royce when a ford will get you there just the same for less? And of course, then you have your Honda's, some of the VW's are quite nice, etc. It's the middle ground photographers usually go for now a days. Great lighting great quality pro features, but you didn't mortgage the house again to pay for it. Thats why you see Hensels and Dyna-Lites moreso than ProFoto and BronColor in the studios. Same results less cost. I don't think any time soon SplashLight Studios will be fully equipped with AB's. What road are you going down, you pick the car, you get what you pay for in the end, just depends on what kind of ride you like. Just my $0.02. Dec 06 07 02:54 pm Link put that zuess on e-bay and you'll get top dollar for it. Dec 06 07 03:12 pm Link I love my Hensels and never doubt the performance, just like the pocketwizards that fire them. I haven't dropped them but look forward to it. Dec 06 07 03:15 pm Link I was referring to cost and looks rather then functionality. I haven't used them but alien bees seem to be the reliable inexpensive alternative with great service (Honda). While Hensel ans Elinchrom are the fancier German (I think) higher brow lines (BMW). Not the Maybach like broncolor. If Profoto is the BMW then I guess hensel would be the Volkswagen/Audi. I didn't mean to start a which car matches up with which light fight:) Frank Dec 06 07 07:53 pm Link janos gyorke wrote: While I do agree that it is an easy fix (should cost about 3.50 DIY) it is ***not*** a good idea to attempt it unless you know exactly what you are doing. I too would be more than happy to take if off your hands - might even offer you some cash for it. Dec 06 07 08:08 pm Link |
