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So this underage girl wants a shoot..
On (another popular model site) I was browsing ports and came across a very good looking that had nothing but crappy friendtookmypictureforme shots. She doesn't live that far from me so, thinking that she was a great find/new face, I contacted her with the following email: Hey there, Are you still relatively active and looking to do some TFCD maybe? I live in Oakland and would love to help you develop your portfolio. Just hit me back if you're interested! Take Care, --mikeb a few weeks later she responds with: Hi, sorry for the late response. I'd love to do a tfcd if youre still available. -suzy Great!! So, as I do with everyone that wants to shoot, I try and find out a little on who THEY are so I can keep all my ducks inline here.. ESPECIALLY WITH "18" YEAR OLDS. So, I bounce her email off of the myspace database and get nothing.. so I take and bounce her model name off google and find her page... it says shes 17. SHIT. So... Hey suzy! Okay first things first.. are you really 18? If not, its fine, we'll just have to work something out a little differently. Benefit of the doubt because the myspace picture was so incredibly small it was hard to tell who it was at all... and the location was "California" and there are QUITE a bit of girls in california....[/sarcasm] yeah im 17 i put down 18 to make things simple because im in foster care. what would need to be worked out? Should I just drop it and wait a year? What the hell would I need to do here? Would there be some kind of issue taking photos (appropriate for her age) and posting them to my portfolio (inappropriate for her age)?? The girl is truly a find, but Im not going to be on dateline NBC for some bullsh*t. Feb 04 08 12:48 am Link Just need parent there and if going to be using the images for other than personal promotion you need the parents and the models sigs... but in her case i guess her guardian Feb 04 08 12:50 am Link Sounds like a fun chance to groom talent. I agree, just make sure the parent is there. Feb 04 08 12:52 am Link So, I'll bite... this is a common situation and frequent topic here. The concensus of the community usually says: 1) Safest/best thing to do is to walk away... there are a lot of fish in the sea, espeically in CA. If she's still around when she turns 18, then go for it. 2) Legally, to shoot anyone underage, you should have consent from her parents or legal guardians. They need to sign the release, and still it doesn't protect you if you shoot anything that isn't age appropriate. It's tough, but you don't want to go there. EDIT: Given the nature of what you shoot, you run more risks than say a photographer of senior pictures for the local high school. The legalities are the same regardless, but so much of this part of the law is interpretation. Feb 04 08 12:55 am Link iamthemikeb wrote: Let the fear mongering begin. I'll just watch for now. Feb 04 08 12:58 am Link I don't see what the issue is. You can take age-appropriate photos of her, give her copies, and post them on your portfolio if you want. It's no different than shooting senior portraits, except that she doesn't pay you. It's probably a good idea to have a third party present, just so there won't be two different stories about what happened if she gets pissed for some reason, but there's no need to be paranoid. If you want to use the photos for some purpose that requires a release, then you just need to get her legal guardian to sign the release. Again, as long as you're shooting age-appropriate work there shouldn't be a problem as long as you're up front and honest with everyone. There's really no reason to fear teenagers unless you have inappropriate plans for them. Feb 04 08 01:00 am Link Feb 04 08 01:04 am Link ...but you are loveable and harmless... Feb 04 08 01:06 am Link Love of Photography wrote: No man has ever called my loveable. Are you hitting on me? Feb 04 08 01:07 am Link Her 18th birthday can't be too far away. I'd say wait a a while until after her 18th birthday just to be safe. Feb 04 08 01:08 am Link PYPI wrote: Ain't that the truth. Feb 04 08 01:08 am Link PYPI wrote: Feb 04 08 01:10 am Link PYPI wrote: Damn, Gemma factor. You got me. Feb 04 08 01:12 am Link PYPI wrote: Feb 04 08 01:21 am Link Love of Photography wrote: So I'm not cute and lovable anymore? Feb 04 08 01:22 am Link lmao Feb 04 08 01:23 am Link Feb 04 08 01:24 am Link iamthemikeb wrote: Doesn't sound like she wants the foster parents involved. Feb 04 08 01:27 am Link PYPI wrote: Aww, sure you are. *hugs* Feb 04 08 01:28 am Link Yeah just wait until she is 18. Kisses, MELmoore Feb 04 08 01:30 am Link seriously.. all you crackhead photogs who don't know anything or are scared... people shoot girls under 18 all the time. how you think people get senior portraits done. you don't need to fear Chris if you are not planning on doing sketchy things with the model... Feb 04 08 01:32 am Link PYPI wrote: Feb 04 08 01:37 am Link mike, what sort of shots were you planning on doing that would be inappropriate for a 17 year old model? Feb 04 08 01:39 am Link DKLEE STUDIO wrote: Yeah those 2 guys at Columbine shot several minors... oh not like that. Feb 04 08 01:43 am Link I believe there is a LOT of people who are afraid of younger models. Lemme tell ya, I shoot quite a few of them for a local modeling school. I don't post 'em on here, and I don't usually get model releases from them, but, they pay me and they get images. Generally, there isn't a parent there. Always, it's age appropriate. I've done lingerie with 14 year old girls, but the images would be suitable for the JC Penney catalog. By the way, JC Penney, Kohls, Macy's, Neiman Marcus, Herberger's, Nordstrom's, Target, etc., all seem to have images in their advertising of young teens in modest lingerie, panties, bras, bikini's, sleepwear, etc. For 16 years, I had a photo lab and portrait studio. If a 15 year old girl came in, by herself, we would go in the studio, close the door, and take pictures. I would then take her money and later she'd get her pictures. No problem. No parent. No model release. No, I don't post them on the internet. There's nothing wrong with photographing anyone of any age. In fact, if a 14 year old model came to a photographer's studio and said she wanted pictures in her bikini for her boyfriend...refusing to do so because she's 14, could be considered age discrimination. You could get sued, technically and legally....though I agree...not likely. The point I'm trying to make is that there isn't anything wrong or illegal about photographing underage models, and it's probably, technically, illegal not to. The OP mentioned that the model was in foster care. In that instance, it's possible that a parent doesn't need to be there if there's another legal guardian. In fact, none of them need to be there. If you need a valid model release, a minor's signature is worthless. To be valid, the release must be signed by a parent or guardian. So, is a 17 year old smart enough to con you into thinking that her girlfriend's signature on the model release (on the line marked "signature of parent or guardian") is a true and valid signature from her mom? Yup. So, do you need to worry about that? Nope. All you have to do is behave reasonably. You can legally photograph minors with and without clothes, in every state I know of in the US, with or without a model release or parent. It is not illegal to photograph a 12 year old nude model. You can legally post those on the internet, if you have a VALID (see above) model release. However, (this is important), if someone considers your work to be pornographic, you could be in a world of trouble.You might call it "art" but if you get a judge that calls it "porn", all the valid model releases in the world won't keep you out of a huge mess! The US Supreme Court admitted failure in their attempt to define "pornography". So, one person's "art" is another person's "porn" and your butt goes to jail over something that has yet to be defined. There's a huge risk to shooting minors nude if it's possible that anyone could consider it "porn". Umm...which seems to be always possible. :-( I don't understand why there's so much fear mongering when it comes to underage models. Young models, thinking of making a career as a model, should be getting getting started before they are 14. Somebody is going to provide them with images, if you don't want to, send 'em to me. Feb 04 08 01:44 am Link you people crack me up with all the paranoia get serious. in the real fashion industry, a model's career is already 1/2 over by the time she is 18! Feb 04 08 01:46 am Link Nicholi wrote: Yup, and behind the scenes at a runway show, there isn't time for modesty about nudity. There seems to be boobs everywhere....all sizes, shapes and ages....even some 9 year old ones. Feb 04 08 01:53 am Link What the hell does age have to do with anything? Unless you think you only can shoot newds?!? If that is the case then there should be no question. Feb 04 08 01:57 am Link If I'm doing a fashion shoot and it was a 17yr old girl or even 16 and she had the look and for some she needed to be topless id still do it because its a fashion shot. Who gives a cab what some rinky dink judge says... though i may be luckier that i can use the excuse i'm a mo so why would i should porn of a female haha -_- Though I'm not sure on US laws but i dont even think boobs count you have to see genetalia right? Feb 04 08 02:00 am Link J O N A T H A N wrote: which works fine because here in the states all women have the genetalia of a Barbie doll untill they turn 18... Feb 04 08 02:13 am Link Dave Wright Photo SF wrote: That would be hard. Who's going to hold up the infant? Feb 04 08 02:45 am Link Love of Photography wrote: you did some great shots of my friend in San Francisco. I'll be the second. Feb 04 08 02:51 am Link I have seen post like this before and sometimes I wonder. If she is 17 and you are going to take innocent photos of her nothing againest any laws I don't see the big deal. Its not illegal to take photos of people reguardless of age. I have shot one 16 yol who her sister brought her to a shoot mind you, they were innocent casual shots and mountains didn't crumble and oceans didn't boil over. Feb 04 08 03:04 am Link Mikes Images - Mike #4 wrote: I think you had a good, rational post. I have absolutely no problem working with a minor. Feb 04 08 09:15 am Link PYPI wrote: I try to stay away from naked babies. They don't know if their diaper is on or off. I've gotta protect my equipment. Feb 04 08 09:16 am Link John C Photography wrote: I haven't heard what he wants to shoot style wise. I shoot with those under 18 with a parent present and age appropriate outfits... Feb 04 08 09:20 am Link Lazyi Photography wrote: I feel terrrible, I totally LOLed... Feb 04 08 09:27 am Link OMG a 17 year old model?!?!?!?!? What has the world come to?!?!?! The girls in agencies are like 12, get over it if you want to work with her. Feb 04 08 09:31 am Link J O N A T H A N wrote: With above said and done it all sounds good. Feb 04 08 09:32 am Link Whats the big deal ? I shoot minors on a regular basis. If you do, try to shoot minors that work at the mall, are on my space , etc. Minors are great marketing tools. If they like your images they tell everyone they know and post endless bulletins on my space. I've gotten countless paid jobs thanks to the word of mouth from minors. Robert Feb 04 08 09:32 am Link |
